How has the Name Debacle affected alumni donations?

[Ranger]

Lets make it as crystal clear as possible: people who were planning to donate now or soon to UND but now will not donate because of the nickname issue do not deserve any praise. In fact, they deserve to be called our and embarrassed for what they are: childish cowards.

WTFO?

By browsing these posts, I'm assuming you have donated plenty to the UND coffers? If not, pound sand. AMF.

[dlsiouxfan]

What exactly would most of you have had the UND administration do differently? We sued the NCAA and the judge told us to settle. Should we have wasted another million dollars to go to trial and lose? When a judge tells you to settle it's a pretty good sign that you don't have a very good case.

Is it all really about the dropping the nickname a few months early? Would it really have made any difference if we waited until the the deadline in the settlment agreement? Should Kelley have made fire and brimstone speeches in support of the nickname and then sat on his ass like Kupchella? Is that what qualifies as standing up for the nickname in your eyes?

How much expense should our athletic program and university have incurred to keep the nickname? $2 million? 10 million? 100 million? Is the nickname the only thing worth preserving in the entire university?

A lot of you nickname supporters need to sit down and truly evaluate what UND could have done differently.

[Goon]

Why does everyone assume that all donors are rich? It's probably the contrary.

Anyone who buys season tickets for Fighting Sioux hockey donates money to a tune of at least what $55.00... I know I am hardly what you would classify as rich.

[Stromer]

What exactly would most of you have had the UND administration do differently? We sued the NCAA and the judge told us to settle. Should we have wasted another million dollars to go to trial and lose? When a judge tells you to settle it's a pretty good sign that you don't have a very good case.

Is it all really about the dropping the nickname a few months early? Would it really have made any difference if we waited until the the deadline in the settlment agreement? Should Kelley have made fire and brimstone speeches in support of the nickname and then sat on his ass like Kupchella? Is that what qualifies as standing up for the nickname in your eyes?

How much expense should our athletic program and university have incurred to keep the nickname? $2 million? 10 million? 100 million? Is the nickname the only thing worth preserving in the entire university?

A lot of you nickname supporters need to sit down and truly evaluate what UND could have done differently.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The masses are so willing to throw Kelley under the bus but yet turn a blind eye to Kupchella, who put on a pretty good show but in the end it was his hesitation and inaction that allowed us to be backed into the corner we currently find ourselves in.

[Taz Boy]

I always get very mad when people make choices I don't agree with concerning their personal finances. So much so, I must write about it in a web forum for all to see the rage. And they shall come to know this rage through my stern castigation. My choice of font. My lack of smilies. Whoa unto you, oh withholder of the donation. For I am thinking about you in a very negative way.

taz

[The Sicatoka]

A lot of you nickname supporters need to sit down and truly evaluate what UND could have done differently.

.

[star2city]

What exactly would most of you have had the UND administration do differently?

The issue I have with Kelley and Faison is how they behaved behind the scenes.

The Fighting Sioux name was like a favorite uncle on life support who was mored loved by extended relatives than by his own family (the SBoHE). The Summit League (potential landlords) were basically saying pull the plug - we want your uncle dead - then we will do business with you. Kelley and Faison - in-laws who aren't related to the uncle and never really knew him - secretly lobby the board (the immediate family) to pull the plug because they are concerned about how much it is costing, but all the time tell everyone else that the issue is out of their hands. With Kelley, Faison, and the Board hanging around while the plug is pulled - with vision of riches of the last will and testament and an exciting future - expecting an instant passing, but miraculously the uncle lives on without life support, but is gasping for breath and suffering worse than ever.

There was no dignity in the suffering: just jostling and politics.

A lot of you nickname supporters need to sit down and truly evaluate what UND could have done differently.

It's water under the bridge, but relationships between Standing Rock / Spirit Lake should have been firmed up 20 years ago.

[MplsBison]

The entire Kelley/Douple/Summit angle on this is such pathetic bunk.

The decision was entirely up to the Standing Rock Tribal Council. They alone will be the reason that the nickname will be retired or saved.

As star2 already pointed out, relationships/business partnerships could've been formed with Standing Rock TC a long time ago. Far before Kelley's time. He certainly wasn't going to be able to erase 20+ years of history between UND and the tribe.

[yababy8]

It's water under the bridge, but relationships between Standing Rock / Spirit Lake should have been firmed up 20 years ago.

Hopefully Notre Dame and the Vikings heed your warning here and get on relations with Ireland and Norway ASAP!

...It's amazing how the most illogical can become unnoticed and the most ridicules can be accepted after a little bit of brain wash is inserted into the picture.

Just to point it out for those of you that are more susceptible to brain wash, consider this question;

What individual person or persons should be declared as the one who can speak for the entire societal lineage of a particular society itself?

What if I wanted to call my team the Fighting Americans in honor of the people who have fought and died for this country?

Then who would be the one or many that would give me allowance and method approval for how I choose to do this?

We have to agree that it would not be the very people to whom I am directing my chosen honor, why?

Because my fellow idiots, they are all dead! Now I guess you could say, 'hey why not let their families give allowance and method approval for any requested nickname honor. That doesn't sound very feasible does it?

Are we going to have a vote? Maybe the people who died for this country would disagree with their great great grandchildren's view on the matter?

Of course an alternative that might be considered could be to create a social dogma that declares that people be allowed to do what they want or say what they want unless it inhibits another's ability to do the same. ie freedom of speech.

We could even add in a clause that advises people to be considerate of everyone when they choose to honor some. ie don't act like an idiot about it and dishonor who you are trying to honor, like showing a mascot in a mocking way.

So if you scrub of all of the brain wash you have been given and take a look at the concept of developing "relations" with the tribal govt (a dozen or two dudes) and then ask yourself,

"How can a person or persons claim to be the keeper of the allowance and method of honor of people who by order after order of magnitude are more than they as individuals are?"

I think you will not only find that they cannot but also see how easily manipulated you are.

If you're really slow and have a hard time with the concept, try looking at it from this standpoint;

What do you think the role of an elected government should be?

Obviously there are many answers to this question because it largely depends on ones view, but I am wondering who would suggest that an appropriate role of an elected govt would be the definer of morality? The idea of the united states govt deciding the who's and how's regarding the freedom of speech is reprehensible, yet we all sit here and accept what is happening with our freedom to use the Sioux name being dictated by a dozen elected officials from Standing Rock?

IT IS NOT ONE SINGLE SPECK SHORT OF FRICKING AMAZING THAT EVERYONE IS ACCEPTING THIS. not from a standpoint of a love for a nickname, BUT FROM A STANDPOINT OF LOVE FOR HUMANITY AND OUR FREEDOM AND WAY OF LIFE!

WAKE-IP!!!

[sioux34]

I got a call from UND right after the SBOHE killed the name. I told the solicitor that I would not be donating at that time. I explained to the student that I understood it was not the school or the students who had decided to retire the name, but since I didn't have a means of withholding funding from the SBOHE, I would withhold money from the University until it got the state boards attention. I am not saying I won't go back to contributing to my alma mater, but I won't be writing that check any time soon.

[darell1976]

Just a question for the donors that won't donate anymore...why are you mad at the University?? If you have to be pissed at someone be pissed at the tribal council of the Standing Rock for not letting their people vote. Be mad at the NCAA for telling UND they need 2 tribes not 1 to get approval. Be mad at Wayne Stenjeum for not fighting harder in court. But UND has no blame for this unless you want to blame the people who came up with the Fighting Sioux name in the 1930's. If they left it the Flickertails money would still come in. So to put it this way what are you proving by not donating? Since there is NOTHING UND could do. It was in the hands of the SR Tribe.

[The Sicatoka]

It's water under the bridge, but relationships between Standing Rock / Spirit Lake should have been firmed up 20 years ago.

Dig deep and you'll see UND's been doing many (unadvertised) things for many, many years.

UND wasn't appreciated.

And in UND's time of need it was kicked to the curb by Standing Rock.

What else to expect from a government that Third World Nations look at and laugh.

UND will go on just fine without the baggage of JTA and RHHiT.

Success is the best revenge.

[the green team]

Just a question for the donors that won't donate anymore...why are you mad at the University?? If you have to be pissed at someone be pissed at the tribal council of the Standing Rock for not letting their people vote. Be mad at the NCAA for telling UND they need 2 tribes not 1 to get approval. Be mad at Wayne Stenjeum for not fighting harder in court. But UND has no blame for this unless you want to blame the people who came up with the Fighting Sioux name in the 1930's. If they left it the Flickertails money would still come in. So to put it this way what are you proving by not donating? Since there is NOTHING UND could do. It was in the hands of the SR Tribe.

You can't reason with the unreasonable. They are firmly entrenched in their belief, they want to everyone to hurt more if possible. As if we aren't hurting enough already. My view is that if you have changed what has been a long established pattern of donation, and have decided to pull it in protest of the way this issue played out... it does prove that the name which I love and hate to see go, was always more important than the institution and the student athletes who represent it. There is no way around it.

I've begun to realize that really their are only 7 to 10 posters on here that continue to harp on this issue of ways to make UND feel their pain--i really feel they are in a small minority (jmho), but also their are lot of reasonable people here too, who make rational arguments. I don't always agree with them, but I do think there are quite of few people.

The fact is...it's not over the deadline is not here yet, but our University is positioning itself to be ready for Dec. 1st, that's it-no more, no less. There has actually no movement by those in power at Standing Rock that would indicate that we are going to see a different outcome. I'm readying myself for it. I know AFB is still fighting--that is great in my book...but because he is not in power there, he has a difficult road in a short amount of time to make headway. Don't think for a second that the SR Tribal Council didn't know what they were doing for months when they would postpone action, meetings, have non quorums. And then of all things, having to ask the SBoHE repeatedly for clarification of what they wanted. Uh duh? A 4 year old could have figured it out, but they played that tactic, and because they are in power---it's their right, and it was an effective tactic...in that world. Unfortunately for us we sit here and wait. And for some of us, that was a cue to attack UND and try to drum up support to reduce financial support in order to inflict pain to those who really have no dog in the fight...the student & the student athlete.

[darell1976]

You can't reason with the unreasonable. They are firmly entrenched in their belief, they want to everyone to hurt more if possible. As if we aren't hurting enough already. My view is that if you have changed what has been a long established pattern of donation, and have decided to pull it in protest of the way this issue played out... it does prove that the name which I love and hate to see go, was always more important than the institution and the student athletes who represent it. There is no way around it.

I've begun to realize that really their are only 7 to 10 posters on here that continue to harp on this issue of ways to make UND feel their pain--i really feel they are in a small minority (jmho), but also their are lot of reasonable people here too, who make rational arguments. I don't always agree with them, but I do think there are quite of few people.

The fact is...it's not over the deadline is not here yet, but our University is positioning itself to be ready for Dec. 1st, that's it-no more, no less. There has actually no movement by those in power at Standing Rock that would indicate that we are going to see a different outcome. I'm readying myself for it. I know AFB is still fighting--that is great in my book...but because he is not in power there, he has a difficult road in a short amount of time to make headway. Don't think for a second that the SR Tribal Council didn't know what they were doing for months when they would postpone action, meetings, have non quorums. And then of all things, having to ask the SBoHE repeatedly for clarification of what they wanted. Uh duh? A 4 year old could have figured it out, but they played that tactic, and because they are in power---it's their right, and it was an effective tactic...in that world. Unfortunately for us we sit here and wait. And for some of us, that was a cue to attack UND and try to drum up support to reduce financial support in order to inflict pain to those who really have no dog in the fight...the student & the student athlete.

Well said!!!!

[Fetch]

How many of you work for UND ?

[BobIwabuchiFan]

I just didn't see the commitment to saving the name by Kelley and the AD that was the primary memory of Kupchella's last year. To that extent, they choose to accept this path and even pushed the rationalization of cutting the fight short by not approaching SR on the University's behalf - probably told by the SOBHE to not get involved as he was brought in to transition the University away from the tribe affiliation - which to me is the biggest racist action by the University. I agree with not giving the University any more money for the time being so they know there are ramifications for not listening to the Alumni and their half-hearted attempt at saving the name is the real reason why people won't give more now. Given time, these guys will get back to normal, but again blaming the name supporters for the reduciton in giving is illogical and ignores the 5 why conclusion its related to the poor management/fight by the UND administration.

BobIwabuchiFan

[MplsBison]

I just didn't see the commitment to saving the name by Kelley and the AD that was the primary memory of Kupchella's last year. To that extent, they choose to accept this path and even pushed the rationalization of cutting the fight short by not approaching SR on the University's behalf - probably told by the SOBHE to not get involved as he was brought in to transition the University away from the tribe affiliation - which to me is the biggest racist action by the University. I agree with not giving the University any more money for the time being so they know there are ramifications for not listening to the Alumni and their half-hearted attempt at saving the name is the real reason why people won't give more now. Given time, these guys will get back to normal, but again blaming the name supporters for the reduciton in giving is illogical and ignores the 5 why conclusion its related to the poor management/fight by the UND administration.

BobIwabuchiFan

For the millionth time:

a) The only ones at fault if the name is retired are the Standing Rock Tribal Council.

b) Withholding donations that you were planning to give because of the nickname being retired only punishes the student athletes.

Summary: the university and teams are much better off without you.

[Blackheart]

For the millionth time:

a) The only ones at fault if the name is retired are the Standing Rock Tribal Council.

b) Withholding donations that you were planning to give because of the nickname being retired only punishes the student athletes.

Summary: the university and teams are much better off without you.

Thanks for your 'valuable' insight...wrong as usual...donations continue to be way down...

[ScottM]

Thanks for your 'valuable' insight...wrong as usual...donations continue to be way down...

Would you please stop quoting this idiot? It's much more pleasant around here with him on "ignore".

[the green team]

Thanks for your 'valuable' insight...wrong as usual...donations continue to be way down...

Is it your opinion that donations are way down? or is it what you desire? Or do you have fact, because the last time I checked donations are not way down as you allude to. From what I understand they remain largely unchanged.

[USA Hockey]

I was recently informed by a reliable source that the impact of the nickname change affecting alumni donations has been minimal at MOST. In the month or two following the announcement, there was only one cancellation of season tickets and I don't think it was even related.

[darell1976]

I was recently informed by a reliable source that the impact of the nickname change affecting alumni donations has been minimal at MOST. In the month or two following the announcement, there was only one cancellation of season tickets and I don't think it was even related.

If I lived in GF and had the money I would have purchased those tickets.

[Blackheart]

Would you please stop quoting this idiot? It's much more pleasant around here with him on "ignore".

Well I can't argue with that.

[The Sicatoka]

See Page 2, paragraphs 6 and 7 ...

[mksioux]

The entire Kelley/Douple/Summit angle on this is such pathetic bunk.

Douple stuck his nose into an extremely sensitive issue for no good reason. Whether or not his actions were directly responsible for the retiring of the nickname or just speeding up the inevitable, it is not difficult to see why so many people dislike what he did. He should have just kept his mouth shut.