Nickname on Ballot at Spirit Lake

[82SiouxGuy]

The latest stunt by the nickname opponents may be the most outrageous of all time. They don't care whether it's true or not, they just want to make the claim for the shock value.

[82SiouxGuy]

And yet another GF Herald story about the issue. This one looks at some of the arguments from both sides.

[UND92,96]

The latest stunt by the nickname opponents may be the most outrageous of all time. They don't care whether it's true or not, they just want to make the claim for the shock value.

I am absolutely sickened that nickname opponents would sink to these depths. Truly pathetic.

[johnsowe]

This doesn't surprise me look at what the left did to Sarsh Palin. Hippie always go to the bottom and then try to take the high road.

[jukenjive27]

Yeah right the nickname is racist....lol

It's a damn nickname, people make me sick sometimes, most of the sioux tribe doesn't even deserve to be called as such, they give up, live off the government and don't try to better themselves ( as spoken by a standing rock tribe member), these are the people who hate the nickname. The nickname was given to UND in the 30's, UND has so many programs that cater to native americans, yet you want to call the school racist....heh yeah right, how about the nickname goes the programs go and they can pay for school like everyone else.

This whole issue is just retarded, why wait for 70+ years to complain about the issue....If they hated it so much they should have opposed it before it became something associated with winner's. I guess the nickname opposer's do not want to be associated with winners....whether the school wins or loses....they will always be winners.

Hell why even complain about a nickname...a nickname does not promote racism unless people give it that power, people promote racism not damn nicknames.

Everyone in the world get so offended over every little thing, people die over the same kind of useless crap, people in general need to relax and just live life, don't sweat the small stuff....like nicknames.

[Chewey]

I am absolutely sickened that nickname opponents would sink to these depths. Truly pathetic.

One really should not be surprised by these tactics. They are the racists and they always have been and always will be. Just look who threw in the racist invective yet again. These people are nut jobs. No evidence that anything derogatory was said by Ralph. No witnesses that can be produced to indicate anything. They basically admit to using racist tactics to get shock value, irrespective of the lack of truthfulness. They use the "PN" term themselves by distributing something with those words on it. These nut cases must be rigorously opposed in all contexts.

[Hammersmith]

This isn't meant as a knock on you guys or a statement about which side is right(morally or otherwise), but can you all now see why Douple and the Summit presidents don't want to have anything to do with UND until this is all completely finished? If UND was a Summit member, many media outlets carrying this and future stories would include the line, "The University of North Dakota, a member of The Summit League athletic conference, ..." You know that saying about any publicity being good publicity? Doesn't apply here.

Now personally, I find these tactics extremely disturbing. Whatever my position(and I'm pretty close to middle of the road on this issue), this stuff is way over the top and should never have been used. The ends do not justify the means, and these actions seriously erode any moral high ground that particular anti-nickname faction had.

[LeftyZL]

"Terry Morgan, another anti-nickname organizer, said Friday that opponents had a

[choyt3]

This doesn't surprise me look at what the left did to Sarsh Palin. Hippie always go to the bottom and then try to take the high road.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Sarah Palin. It's not as simple as nickname supporters=Republicans; opponents=Democrats.

[sioux7>5]

After reading that fine piece of journalism, I could say that I heard from a friend that someone heard Ron His Horse say that he was only against the nickname because he thinks it will give him a future in politics and that he really likes UND and often secretly watches the games and cheers for them.

That holds about the same evidence as the piece I just saw quoted in the Herald. I work at a TV station and I can tell you if we would ever run a story without checking everything out, our news director would throw a fit.

[Chewey]

This has absolutely nothing to do with Sarah Palin. It's not as simple as nickname supporters=Republicans; opponents=Democrats.

I agree. Many Democrats/Liberals favor the nickname and abhor the blatant and unabashed racism practiced by nickname opponents. I think that he was trying to point out that the media unfairly scummed Sarah Palin, where there was no or little basis to do so in many instances, and that the nickname opponents are throwing out baseless accusations and availing themselves of racism - as the media availed itself of sexism when it scummed Sarah Palin - to besmirch the nickname and its supporters, particularly Ralph E. Sarah Palin is not the brightest bulb on the tree and, you're right, reference to her in this debate is a bit of a stretch. And, you're very right in asserting that these racist, petulant tactics by the nickname opponents should not be associated with any self-respecting liberal/Democrat. Those tactics are sick and disturbing and they indicate much about the people employing them.

[dakotadan]

Tran and the Grand Forks Herald: Your conspiracy theory articles continue to sicken me. The fact that you try to pass them off as news is even worse. The worst of all is that the Herald continues to allow this. Your piece the other day about how the REA/UND was paying all of the nickname supporters on the reservation was classic. Forget facts, what do they accomplish. Conspiracy articles are more fun and take less research.

The City Beat blog

I talked with Jody this morning and later got a statement, which you can read about in the story. We decided not to put it on our Web site verbatim only because it made some counter-allegations against the anti-nickname side -- nothing on the scale of that quote, I can tell you -- and we decided that it wouldn't be fair without a statement from the anti-nickname side.

Really? The Herald is so quick to publish allegations against anyone who has ever supported the nickname, even without facts. Yet you don't want to publish allegations against the anti-nickname dozen?

I am officially never buying a Herald/Forum Communications publication again. I am sure the Bismarck Tribune would love to send me a subscription.

[SiouxCrioux1]

Ralph's Daughter should sue the Tribes and the Herald for Defamation.

[johnsowe]

I was not making it a BLUE/RED issue. I will just pointing put how bad the media is and how they just run with a story even though it is not true. The media is a LEFT-WING machine and they will print or say anything to advance there plan, because we do not live in there perfect liberal world. There is a difference between a democrat and left wing liberal. The same can be said for the right too.

[GeauxSioux]

I started a thread a while back titled "The Writing is on the Wall". I think it is even more true now.

My desire at this point is for thee to be overwhelming support for the Fighting Sioux name at the upcoming Spirit Lake vote and then UND change the name. Then the change would be on UND's terms. The anti-nickname people at Spirit Lake, who would at that point be in the minority, would be left holding the bag after the vote.

The kind of crap that has happened in the last week, has proven the Fighting Sioux name cannot survive. Imagine what kind of chicanery will happen prior to the Standing Rock vote.

Win the Spirit Lake vote.... Change the name.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Ralph's Daughter should sue the Tribes and the Herald for Defamation.

You can't libel someone who is dead.

I can safely (from legal standpoint) say that Ronald Reagan loved the Soviet Union, and that Dwight David Eisenhower was a Nazi. I can't be sued by their family any more than I can be sued by Benjamin Franklin's descendants for saying he was a closet Royalist. AFAIK that stems from the idea that Reagan et al can't suffer any damages from my statement.

If they had said something about the daughter herself, there might be a legal solution. I have to think that the newspaper's lawyers carefully steered clear of that. The person or persons passing that stuff around should be held responsible by the public at large-but OTOH I don't think those people care very much.

OTOH, that affidavit is fairly meaningless AFAIK. Englestad isn't here to defend himself.

[star2city]

I started a thread a while back titled "The Writing is on the Wall". I think it is even more true now.

My desire at this point is for their to be overwhelming support for the Fighting Sioux name at the upcoming Spirit Lake vote and then UND change the name. Then the change would be on UND's terms. The anti-nickname people at Spirit Lake, who would at that point be in the minority, would be left holding the bag after the vote.

The kind of crap that has happened in the last week, has proven the Fighting Sioux name cannot survive. Imagine what kind of chicanery will happen prior to the Standing Rock vote.

Win the Spirit Lake vote.... Change the name.

If after all the garbage, lies, hearsay that has been thrown at the nickname by opponents and Spirit Lake affirms the nickname, Spirit Lake will show a remarkable display of moral resiliency: that racial and ethnic divides can be mended.

Ironically, I'm more hopeful for the nickname now. The nickname opponents have disgraced any semblance of dignity that they so espoused. The worst accusations have been placed on the table, and if Spirit Lake rejects them - unity can abound.

[DamStrait]

This isn't meant as a knock on you guys or a statement about which side is right(morally or otherwise), but can you all now see why Douple and the Summit presidents don't want to have anything to do with UND until this is all completely finished? If UND was a Summit member, many media outlets carrying this and future stories would include the line, "The University of North Dakota, a member of The Summit League athletic conference, ..." You know that saying about any publicity being good publicity? Doesn't apply here.

Hammersmith, I respect you for your many insightful and informative posts, but this is just hogwash, and I have to say, unworthy of you. There might be any number of reasons that might generate bad pub for the league (such as league players' trouble with the law). At least this one could be easily dealt with by the league offices by issuing a statement like the following: "UND's nickname is strictly their affair - the league does not involve itself in such matters." Unfortunately, this would require some humility to recognize one should stay out of the business of others. I do not believe humility is a virtue in Mr. Douple's possession.

[siouxforeverbaby]

You can't libel someone who is dead.

I can safely (from legal standpoint) say that Ronald Reagan loved the Soviet Union, and that Dwight David Eisenhower was a Nazi. I can't be sued by their family any more than I can be sued by Benjamin Franklin's descendants for saying he was a closet Royalist. AFAIK that stems from the idea that Reagan et al can't suffer any damages from my statement.

If they had said something about the daughter herself, there might be a legal solution. I have to think that the newspaper's lawyers carefully steered clear of that. The person or persons passing that stuff around should be held responsible by the public at large-but OTOH I don't think those people care very much.

OTOH, that affidavit is fairly meaningless AFAIK. Englestad isn't here to defend himself.

Actually I believe that you can libel someone who is dead.

Libel against the reputation of a person who has died will allow surviving members of the family to bring an action for damages.

from the law.com Law Dictionary.

Law Dictionary

The website actually has a very detailed definition for those of you who would like to know.

[sioux7>5]

If I was the Engelstad family I would sue them to high heaven and name the NCAA in it as well. They said the arena was hostile and abusive.

Actually I believe that you can libel someone who is dead.

from the law.com Law Dictionary.

Law Dictionary

The website actually has a very detailed definition for those of you who would like to know.

[MplsBison]

Hammersmith, I respect you for your many insightful and informative posts, but this is just hogwash, and I have to say, unworthy of you. There might be any number of reasons that might generate bad pub for the league (such as league players' trouble with the law). At least this one could be easily dealt with by the league offices by issuing a statement like the following: "UND's nickname is strictly their affair - the league does not involve itself in such matters." Unfortunately, this would require some humility to recognize one should stay out of the business of others. I do not believe humility is a virtue in Mr. Douple's possession.

I don't understand why you think it's a complex issue...Douple doesn't want the Summit in any of the nickname press. It's just that simple.

[DamStrait]

I don't understand why you think it's a complex issue...Douple doesn't want the Summit in any of the nickname press. It's just that simple.

That is an incredibly weak argument - the people that might care about the nickname issue have been shown time and again to be a ridiculously small minority and are very unlikely to be sports fans. He quite simply has no dog in this fight and ought to stay the hell out of it.

[siouxprideforever]

The hypocracy is getting a little old! That tenacity that Ralph and others so romantically admired and labeled as "fighters" in reference to the the Sioux people's never say die approach to adversity appears to be upsetting to those unaccoustomed to the fighting Sioux! What part of of this is so hard to understand? There are a contingent of Sioux people that are fighting for what they believe! They happen to be going about it in a manner that some believe is the only way they know how. That tenacity, which some are labeling as libel, dirty, etc. is part of the political landscape - part of the real fighting Sioux! Why do you think that the adversaries came up with the name Sioux - a reference to fighting like a snake in the grass? Shame on us for passing judgement! If we want to be fighting Sioux - we best get used to it, if not - its time to change.

[jimdahl]

The latest stunt by the nickname opponents may be the most outrageous of all time. They don't care whether it's true or not, they just want to make the claim for the shock value.

I am absolutely sickened that nickname opponents would sink to these depths. Truly pathetic.

It would be a big mistake to paint with a broad brush, because I know good people who oppose the nickname for good reasons, but no one should be surprised after the last few years in which a small group of nickname opponents have demonstrated a repeated willingness to fabricate "evidence" of racism because the issue is so important that the truth doesn't matter In the last few years I recall highly suspect racist blogs, racist signs on campus and merchandise on ebay that use lingo I've only heard used by nickname opponents, to hacking into accounts on this very forum to plant racist messages.

[Sioux-cia]

This has absolutely nothing to do with Sarah Palin. It's not as simple as nickname supporters=Republicans; opponents=Democrats.

I agree. Let's keep our political prejudices to ourselves. Those of us who support the name belong to many different political parties. To single out one group to blame is insulting.