Fetch Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 there is still the Alum. pie pans in the right places too shoot
Goon Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 there is still the Alum. pie pans in the right places too shoot It might help if they did some shooting drills, this team missed many open nets this weekend.
burd Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Saying we don't have enough blue chippers on this team is also not fair. Since 1987, when have we won a NC with blue chippers? We have had blue chippers coached by Blais and Hakstol, but we have not won the title with them. We do have some very high end talent on this team, and the top-to-bottom talent is what I like about it. Time is running pretty short if we want to get into the tournament, but these guys will gel, I think. Maybe I'm alone on this, but I don't think Eidsness is going to steal many games yet, but he won't lose one with sloppy play either. His fundamentals are very strong. We do need Finley to get well, though.
Goon Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 We do have some very high end talent on this team, and the top-to-bottom talent is what I like about it. Time is running pretty short if we want to get into the tournament, but these guys will gel, I agree with the high end talent statement: Ryan Duncan, David Toews, Jason Gregoire, Hextall, Chris VandeVelde, Derrick LaPoint, Chay Genoway, Joe Finley, Evan Trupp, Matt Frattin these guys are all great players. Watkins and Kozek were both at the top scoring column in the BCHL. I don't get it.
ScottM Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 "Blue chippers" aren't the answer. Getting everybody to do their damn jobs, and play up to their potential, is the answer. IMHO this team suffers from a profound lack of leadership on the bench and on the ice. No team with this abundance of talent should be playing this poorly, and inconsistently.
Siouxtimestwo Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 "Blue chippers" aren't the answer. Getting everybody to do their damn jobs, and play up to their potential, is the answer. IMHO this team suffers from a profound lack of leadership on the bench and on the ice. No team with this abundance of talent should be playing this poorly, and inconsistently. I agree. Who cares what recruits do before they show up at UND. What matters is how they perform once they put on the Sioux jersey. Lately, we just haven't been getting enough production from the whole roster. If the past 4 years have taught us anything, it's that you have to go deeper than 1 stud line. The players with incredible natural talent, ala Toews, Parise, etc., have been thriving at UND. It is the other players who simply aren't developing, for whatever reason. It has gotten to the point that we as fans have simply come to accept the fact that the bottom 2 lines will give us nothing on the ice and are simply out there to give our scorers a breather. That's why I am so surprised at our offensive ineptitude this year. We don't have the dominant players, but we seemed to have more depth up and down the roster. So far, it hasn't played out that way. It's not time to fire Hakstol by any means, but I think it is time to question why players don't seem to be developing.
Irish Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I agree with the high end talent statement: Ryan Duncan, David Toews, Jason Gregoire, Hextall, Chris VandeVelde, Derrick LaPoint, Chay Genoway, Joe Finley, Evan Trupp, Matt Frattin these guys are all great players. Watkins and Kozek were both at the top scoring column in the BCHL. I don't get it. I agree that on paper we should have an offensive powerhouse. I think the freshmen Gregoire and Hextall are playing well (although I wonder why 2 freshmen should be tied for the team lead for goals scored). The rest - Duncan - 4 goals (playing well), Toews - 0 goals, VV - 3 goals, Frattin - 2 goals, Trupp - 0 goals, Watkins - 1 goal, Kozek - 2 goals - Lapoint has had his struggles on defense and hasn't really panned out like we had hoped. Hardly anyone is playing at the level they should - some are almost non factors. Why no one is scoring is beyond me - my theory is cycle, cycle, cycle. Whatever it is, we are not developing talent like we should.
siouxweet Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I agree that on paper we should have an offensive powerhouse. I think the freshmen Gregoire and Hextall are playing well (although I wonder why 2 freshmen should be tied for the team lead for goals scored). The rest - Duncan - 4 goals (playing well), Toews - 0 goals, VV - 3 goals, Frattin - 2 goals, Trupp - 0 goals, Watkins - 1 goal, Kozek - 2 goals - Lapoint has had his struggles on defense and hasn't really panned out like we had hoped. Hardly anyone is playing at the level they should - some are almost non factors. Why no one is scoring is beyond me - my theory is cycle, cycle, cycle. Whatever it is, we are not developing talent like we should. UND is becoming a graveyard where offensively talented players come to die in the cycle system. Just look at the offensive numbers decline over hak's tenure and I don't want to hear about the clutching and grabbing crap that toews, parise and oshie had to put up with. Bochenski did as well and he still put up numbers. If the stud on the team is being clutched and grabbed that will lead to another player being open and benefitting and we have no players that are putting the puck in the net
Godsmack Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 The players' actions and body language on the ice seem to reflect the personality of the coach. I wonder how they'd play if they had a guy behind the bench who has passion (aka Eades)? Unfortunately for Eades, he isn't married to anyone who's daddy is high up on the food chain at UND otherwhise perhaps he might have gotten the job over Hakstol.
AussieSiouxFan Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I am going to do a bit of guessing here but i think that the Sioux could be a little fatigued right now. I think i said this last year but, generally the structure of a hockey season is to work on conditioning and fitness in the first half of the season, really put the players through hell to get them fit and fast, then start to lighten the load in the second half and really focus on systems and the on ice play, then taper off when the playoffs are near so the players are energised and ready to play hard hockey. This is probably what Hak is doing to the players, i would guess that they are working really hard off the ice ATM, but when the focus is shifted to the on ice work and the systems things will start to click (hopefully), and the fact that there are a few injuries doesnt help the players fatigue either. Secondly, we all know this team is capable of doing great things, but just because things aern't clicking yet doesnt mean they won't click in the future. Look at the lines each week, they are getting moved around like lottery balls, when chemistry is found on the lines then things will start to click more and more, and hopefully will lead to some great play by the Sioux. Finally, they say that "The darkest hour is right before dawn" so hopefully when things seem they can not get any worse for the Sioux (which is right about now) things will turn around and the Sioux will start playing like they should and start putting up big wins. This is my opinion if you disagree....... whatever!
Irish Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 UND is becoming a graveyard where offensively talented players come to die in the cycle system. Just look at the offensive numbers decline over hak's tenure and I don't want to hear about the clutching and grabbing crap that toews, parise and oshie had to put up with. Bochenski did as well and he still put up numbers. If the stud on the team is being clutched and grabbed that will lead to another player being open and benefitting and we have no players that are putting the puck in the net It used to be that when you played UND, we forechecked the crap out of you all weekend- you knew you were in a hockey game. Now what do we do - cycle you to death?
Goon Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 For what it is worth UND has played the 10th hardest schedule in the country as opposed to say a Air Force which is 30th. Cornell's is number one but I think the numbers are out of wack right now.
AZSIOUX Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I am going to do a bit of guessing here but i think that the Sioux could be a little fatigued right now. I think i said this last year but, generally the structure of a hockey season is to work on conditioning and fitness in the first half of the season, really put the players through hell to get them fit and fast, then start to lighten the load in the second half and really focus on systems and the on ice play, then taper off when the playoffs are near so the players are energised and ready to play hard hockey. This is probably what Hak is doing to the players, i would guess that they are working really hard off the ice ATM, but when the focus is shifted to the on ice work and the systems things will start to click (hopefully), and the fact that there are a few injuries doesnt help the players fatigue either. Secondly, we all know this team is capable of doing great things, but just because things aern't clicking yet doesnt mean they won't click in the future. Look at the lines each week, they are getting moved around like lottery balls, when chemistry is found on the lines then things will start to click more and more, and hopefully will lead to some great play by the Sioux. Finally, they say that "The darkest hour is right before dawn" so hopefully when things seem they can not get any worse for the Sioux (which is right about now) things will turn around and the Sioux will start playing like they should and start putting up big wins. This is my opinion if you disagree....... whatever! fatigued?? really aussie? come on man. these guys come into september camp in shape these days and if you dont then you wont be playing college hockey at this level. thats one of the worse excuses iver ever heard for a bad team at this point of the season. sorry. not buying it and never ever will. go sioux joe finley is missed badly overall. he isnt the reason the sioux ae 3 games under .500 but he is a huge part of this team. with or without joe on the team they still arent scoring and have been brutal on the PP. hope they turn it around vs cornell
siouxforce19 Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 fatigued?? really aussie? come on man. these guys come into september camp in shape these days and if you dont then you wont be playing college hockey at this level. thats one of the worse excuses iver ever heard for a bad team at this point of the season. sorry. not buying it and never ever will. go sioux joe finley is missed badly overall. he isnt the reason the sioux ae 3 games under .500 but he is a huge part of this team. with or without joe on the team they still arent scoring and have been brutal on the PP. hope they turn it around vs cornell I don't think we'd be THAT bad if we could just SCORE SOME FREAKING GOALS! powerplay has been awful. i hope they shake up the lines, because I think it's pretty clear most of them aren't clicking. I may have some ideas of how to shake them up Eidsness has been good, but we can't rely on him all the time because that is just trouble. Defense is ok for the most part, yeah we miss finley, but they can hold their own... offense needs serious help. If the offense can start scoring, there might be a way to salvage this season...if not, well...
AZSIOUX Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I don't think we'd be THAT bad if we could just SCORE SOME FREAKING GOALS! powerplay has been awful. i hope they shake up the lines, because I think it's pretty clear most of them aren't clicking. I may have some ideas of how to shake them up Eidsness has been good, but we can't rely on him all the time because that is just trouble. Defense is ok for the most part, yeah we miss finley, but they can hold their own... offense needs serious help. If the offense can start scoring, there might be a way to salvage this season...if not, well... good points but i will add that the defense has to step up offesively as well to help out. we have 1 GOAL from our defense on the season and thats from brad miller who netted that last night while playing defense. go sioux
siouxprideforever Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I am not ready to through anyone under the bus, but how can one tell when a team is out coached versus out hustled?
ScottM Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 It used to be that when you played UND, we forechecked the crap out of you all weekend- you knew you were in a hockey game. Now what do we do - cycle you to death? Some of my fondest memories of UND hockey were watching Rory McMahon forecheck anybody he could find. Prpich had that ability too. I think it helped set the tone for the rest of the team during those games.
Irish Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Some of my fondest memories of UND hockey were watching Rory McMahon forecheck anybody he could find. Prpich had that ability too. I think it helped set the tone for the rest of the team during those games. "Ah, Rory McMahon" he says in his best Homer Simpson voice.
AussieSiouxFan Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 fatigued?? really aussie? come on man. these guys come into september camp in shape these days and if you dont then you wont be playing college hockey at this level. thats one of the worse excuses iver ever heard for a bad team at this point of the season. sorry. not buying it and never ever will. go sioux joe finley is missed badly overall. he isnt the reason the sioux ae 3 games under .500 but he is a huge part of this team. with or without joe on the team they still arent scoring and have been brutal on the PP. hope they turn it around vs cornell I am not saying fatigue is the only reason they are playing badly, but for a hockey team to play with lots of intensity you need to be well conditioned and fresh (which the Sioux may not be fresh) so i am saying that it could very well be a factor. Its not an excuse by any means, it is just a possible explination for the reason the Sioux start the season slow. Fatigue and overtraining is extremely common in world class athletes, and it is likely to be a factor with the Sioux. Think about it... the last, what... 4 seasons, the Sioux have played poorly up to the christmas break, after a little time off from training to rest and recover they come back on fire, there is something there and to look at all the things that could contribute to this i think overtraining could be a major part of it. Unless there is a magic switch that Hak flicks to get the Sioux to play well after christmas, i cant think of any logical reason why each season the Sioux suddenly turn things around after the break. Can you??
yzerman19 Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I'd say that if you were out hustled, you were out coached. I am not ready to fire Hak yet, but I agree with some of the statements about his teams having a lack of fire in big games. I also agree with AZ on the conditioning. These guys are coming to camp in shape. What I did see on Saturday night is the toll of getting out hit on Friday night. I think the boys looked like they were nursing some bruises. It used to seem like our opponenets had that problem on Saturday nights. Sioux hockey is about transition, positional play, aggressively forechecking, and making every opposing forward pay for each step they take into our defensive zone. THE biggest issue that I continue to see is defensive breakdowns starting with giving attacking forwards the blue line. Our dmen need to hold that line. Power play is god awful. Time for the gut check. I'd come to practice with the following: Playing Friday: Duncan, VV, Hextall, Toews, Frattin, Gregoire, Jones, Genoway, Eidsness Everybody else must fight for a spot. I'd be leaning towards Davidson and Lammy getting ice too.
siouxforce19 Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I am not saying fatigue is the only reason they are playing badly, but for a hockey team to play with lots of intensity you need to be well conditioned and fresh (which the Sioux may not be fresh) so i am saying that it could very well be a factor. Its not an excuse by any means, it is just a possible explination for the reason the Sioux start the season slow. Fatigue and overtraining is extremely common in world class athletes, and it is likely to be a factor with the Sioux. Think about it... the last, what... 4 seasons, the Sioux have played poorly up to the christmas break, after a little time off from training to rest and recover they come back on fire, there is something there and to look at all the things that could contribute to this i think overtraining could be a major part of it. Unless there is a magic switch that Hak flicks to get the Sioux to play well after christmas, i cant think of any logical reason why each season the Sioux suddenly turn things around after the break. Can you?? Except... they don't really get much of a break over the semester break. After finals are done, they probably head home for a few days and are back by the day after christmas i would guess....there's always games over break. So I don't think the rest has anything to do with it. Honestly, I don't think there's any real reason why we play better at the end. It just happens... there doesn't always have to be an explanation for it... if it happens this year, great... if it doesn't well...
petey23 Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 My take. I'm not a hockey expert, but I play one on message boards! I went into the year thinking that while UND would not have the go to line that we have had the past few years that we had the talent and depth to be able to roll 4 lines out there that would be better than most teams number 2 lines and that we would need to play with speed and pace to take advantage of this depth and wear other teams out and force their 3rd and 4th lines to play more minutes and this would ultimately lead to UND wearing teams down over the course of the game. Unfortunately with the stricter enforcement of obstruction and interference which would have helped us greatly in the past, has not helped us this season and not because calls are going against us or in our favor, but the excessive calls have killed the pace in so many games and all the stops in play and faceoffs have negated our depth advantage as all the breaks in play allow everyone to get extra rest and depth does not become as much of a factor as it could be. That said, when we have had a favorable pace in games, we are missing empty nets, making poor "payoff" passes and fumbling scoring opportunities and that needs to improve. These next 4 non-conference games are huge and we need to relax and let shots go and try and force the pace to take advantage of speed and aggression and get on track for the stretch run....if that fails Plan B Load up 2 lines with the most talented offensive players(Duncan, VDV, Hextall, Toews, Gregiore, and either Trupp or Kozek) we have instead of trying to balance our lines and tell the other 6 forwards dressed each night that their main job is to not get scored on, it's ugly, but it allowed Minnesota to be competitive last season and has worked with varying degrees of success for Wisconsin over the years and seeeed to work out OK for us in 1997.
AussieSiouxFan Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I am not ready to through anyone under the bus, but how can one tell when a team is out coached versus out hustled? I am once again going to do a bit of guessing here (so AZSIOUX get ready to comment on this one also) but I ...THINK... (notice how i said think) that bad coaching leads to players out of position and bunched on the ice, or the player with the puck having no options and turning over the puck, and when either (a) your offense is shut down easily, indicating wrongly suited offensive systems for the opposition or even league, or (b) when defense is being beaten by passing plays and open skaters, indicating the defense are not sure where to be and which players to pickup. these things generally come down to the lines and the team where the positions of the players is the main flaw. Out hustled is when a team is beaten in the battles on a more individual basis, like down low in the corners 1 on 1, or when a team is beaten to the puck when they are the closest to it, and when a defender gets walked around by one of the other teams forward. these things generally come down to the individual players not the team or the line on the ice.
AZSIOUX Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I am not saying fatigue is the only reason they are playing badly, but for a hockey team to play with lots of intensity you need to be well conditioned and fresh (which the Sioux may not be fresh) so i am saying that it could very well be a factor. Its not an excuse by any means, it is just a possible explination for the reason the Sioux start the season slow. Fatigue and overtraining is extremely common in world class athletes, and it is likely to be a factor with the Sioux. Think about it... the last, what... 4 seasons, the Sioux have played poorly up to the christmas break, after a little time off from training to rest and recover they come back on fire, there is something there and to look at all the things that could contribute to this i think overtraining could be a major part of it. Unless there is a magic switch that Hak flicks to get the Sioux to play well after christmas, i cant think of any logical reason why each season the Sioux suddenly turn things around after the break. Can you?? then explain why other teams start good ? i respect your opinion and im not saying that being a jerk but i dont agreebut i hear ya. the sioux havent played poorly 4 years in a row up until x-mas break. slower starts? sure they were but they also werent poor by any means. this stretch they are on now is poor. i think things will turn around and have confidence in hak and the staff but its hard to see any positives the last 2 weekends. who the hell knows why they seem to turn it around after x-mas break under hak. its very odd to see but he can coach and i think this years team will show that in the end. we have a long season ahead which is great and lets just hope they can find some chemistry in practice this week that leads to the games vs BIG RED as to your question does hak push a magic button? lets hope he still has it i the office if so lets hope they can jump above .500 by a few games x-mas break this season 1st four seasons under hak 2004-05..........13-8-2 at x-mas break...25-15-5 final record 2005-06..........12-7-1 at x-mas break...29-16-1 final record 2006-07..........7-10-1 at x-mas break...24-14-5 final record 2007-08...........8-6-1 at x-mas break...28-11-4 final record oh well, it makes for great message board spit and at the end of the day......... long live fighting sioux hockey
AussieSiouxFan Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Except... they don't really get much of a break over the semester break. After finals are done, they probably head home for a few days and are back by the day after christmas i would guess....there's always games over break. So I don't think the rest has anything to do with it. Honestly, I don't think there's any real reason why we play better at the end. It just happens... there doesn't always have to be an explanation for it... if it happens this year, great... if it doesn't well... Exactly, a few days off is the perfect cure for muscle fatigue. And i think there is a reason behind the slow starts for the last 3-4 seasons, there is to much consistency and a clear pattern is shown hence there must be a reason behind it.
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