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USD and Augustana to DI highly likely


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Well, considering the history of the NCC, NDSU would be a lot better off with you in some other conference. Its nice to think the dream is almost reality, but you are right about one thing: there is going to be some huge changes before you get a bid to any conference.

For NDSU the big break came with Chicago State leaving the Mid Con. Now with WKU looking to move football to DI-A it might mean another big break for the Land Grants and the Gateway.

That would leave the GWFC wide open for you and USD. If Augi moves up the basketball affiliation the SUs started would find new life since three members have now been accepted into the Mid Con.

That view of the future is at least grounded in a little reality. Your modest proposals require a rewrite of the entire landscape.

Thank goodness NDSU isnt broke and has a conference. Its a lot nicer than dreaming for a handout and the long shot conference bid.

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Here's an opinon piece from the Yankton Press & Dakotan

Last week during his annual "State of the U" address in Vermillion, University of South Dakota President Jim Abbott unveiled a vision of ambitious growth and development for the school. Such plans, if realized, would elevate USD to a new level in terms of what the school offers and how it is perceived.

While Abbott did not comment at length on the matter, it would seem that part of the commitment to this new growth would include moving the school's athletic programs to the NCAA Division I level.

All these things indicate a momentum toward aggressive, high-profile development, and one of the most conspicuous ways to achieve this is to elevate the school's athletic programs to the Division I level.

"This decision is not a question of athletics only. It's a question of positioning our university," Abbott said of the Division I issue. "It's a 30-year decision. It's not only whether it's a good decision for today and the next day. It's what is good for us in 30 years."

Now, with the looming move of the University of North Dakota to Division I, the issue demands a harder look. USD must now decide if there is a future with a skeletal NCC or whether it should make the jump already made by other league members with whom USD sees itself as equal and with whom the U competes for students, to the next level.
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It sure is looking more and more that USD and maybe even Augie will move up to D1. I am starting to get a gut feeling (and this isn't based on any particular info) that maybe Minnesota State and St. Cloud State will seriously consider moving up as well.

With the way SDSU and NDSU have banded together and basically told the rest of the old NCC to f**k off I will now be rooting for all of the rest of the NCC to beat those teams everytime that play them in the future whether they are D1 or not. The arrogance with the State U's is unreal right now. I am sure a Big Ten inviation is just around the corner for them according to their fans. It's like now that they have moved on the D2 that they were formally in is nothing.

I will make a deal with as many of you that want to take it. I will cheer for UND anytime they play the Bison and Jacks if you will cheer for USD anytime they play the same two teams.

Good luck once again on your transition to D1, we are probably not far behind.

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It sure is looking more and more that USD and maybe even Augie will move up to D1. I am starting to get a gut feeling (and this isn't based on any particular info) that maybe Minnesota State and St. Cloud State will seriously consider moving up as well.

With the way SDSU and NDSU have banded together and basically told the rest of the old NCC to f**k off I will now be rooting for all of the rest of the NCC to beat those teams everytime that play them in the future whether they are D1 or not. The arrogance with the State U's is unreal right now. I am sure a Big Ten inviation is just around the corner for them according to their fans. It's like now that they have moved on the D2 that they were formally in is nothing.

I will make a deal with as many of you that want to take it. I will cheer for UND anytime they play the Bison and Jacks if you will cheer for USD anytime they play the same two teams.

Good luck once again on your transition to D1, we are probably not far behind.

You sound just like someone who doesn't know the history of what happened in the ncc. Both SDSU and NDSU waited an extra year to try and convince the conference to move up as a whole. If you remember UNC moved first. It was your president that told the SU's to go and that the conference wasn't interested. Why the change now? Now DI is the hottest thing going? What conference are you hoping to get into?

What's your dii budget now? around 4 million - your going to have to double that to move to DI. Good Luck! :blush:

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This sort of response from Coyote fans comes from the crap that spews out of Brookings regularly and has less to do with NDSU and more to do with SDSU. SDSU people always reference the past and what was said when they moved on but forget that this is an ever changing landscape. Jack fans are just getting nervous about the USD move up because it means increased competition for them and decreased visibility.

The move up by USD is just part of a comprehensive plan for the U. The plan is to increase enrollment to over 11,000 in the next 5 years while maintaining high enrollment standards (ACT greater than 24 or top 50% of class). the greatest thing that USD can do to increase enrollment is to retain more of its freshman class. There are too many freshman that drop out after their 1st year and the U is taking positive steps to reverse this trend. Now, the cynic will look at this and say that they are going to increase enrollment to fund athletics, that's lunacy and everyone knows it. Truth is this plan has been in motion for some time with the building/improvement/upgrades to many of the academic facilities as well as the DDome. An increase in size only makes sense when one looks at what is happening in SD. It is becoming a more urban state with the growth of Sioux Falls and SE SD, the state needs the university to produce more professionals in the business, medical, teaching and law sectors. I have also heard the argument that SD does not produce enough young kids to fill this growth. Unlike SDSU, many of the U's students come from neighboring states and is not heavily dependant on SD's student population. Is this good for SD to be educating other state's kids? Yes, evidenced that I and many, many people I know came from out of state to go to school at USD and have remained in SD years after our graduation because of the growing opportunities SE SD and SF have to offer.

With the U in growth mode, it only makes sense that a visible D1 athletic program will help in creating the image of a university that is on the rise.

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The plan is to increase enrollment .... while maintaining high enrollment standards (ACT greater than 24 or top 50% of class). the greatest thing that USD can do to increase enrollment is to retain more of its freshman class.

Gee, I know I've seen that plan, and it being implemented, somewhere already.

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The move up by USD is just part of a comprehensive plan for the U. The plan is to increase enrollment to over 11,000 in the next 5 years while maintaining high enrollment standards (ACT greater than 24 or top 50% of class). the greatest thing that USD can do to increase enrollment is to retain more of its freshman class. There are too many freshman that drop out after their 1st year and the U is taking positive steps to reverse this trend.

Best of luck with that.

http://www3.sdstate.edu/SDSU/NewsDetail45702.cfm?ID=46,5376

SDSU continues record-breaking enrollment

South Dakota State University has continued its record-breaking enrollment for the seventh consecutive year.

Enrollment figures released Sept. 27 by the South Dakota Board of Regents reported SDSU with an enrollment of 11,377 for the fall semester. That number reflects SDSU

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Maybe someone from Fargo can help me out on this one....Hopefully my math is correct...

If Fargo's population is greater than Grand Forks Population, then why does UND (12,954) have more students registered than NDSU (12,258) for CY06?? (http://www.UND.edu/profile/ vs http://www.ndsu.edu/news/index.php?ID=497&...ublish_article)

So if the above is true, why is there a bigger population of students at UND vs NDSU when Fargo is suppose to be this huge market of people that only hear about NDSU's supposed atheletic and academic progress at the expense of the small market folks in GF? Why is the supposedly small market that UND serves still producing higher enrollment numbers than its D-IAA neighbor to the South? Could it be that they are not the big market they think they are?:lol::blush:

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

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Oh Bob, I really wouldn't use that argument if I were you. It's only got one or two years of life left in it. In the Chapman/Kupchella-era(99-06), NDSU has grown by 2548(26.2%) while UND has grown by 2244(21.2%). The current difference(567) is, I believe, the smallest in post-WW2 ND history. If you go back to pre-flood numbers, the difference in growth rates grows worse. During 94-06(the furthest back I have numbers), the growths were 25.9%/11.4%, respectively. Chapman hit his 2005 goal of 12k students one year early, while Kupchella shows no signs of meeting his 2005 goal of 14k. BTW, please don't anyone use the stricter admission standards rationale; NDSU has used those same higher standards for years.

On the USD subject:

I have to say that, if true, I think USD has the right idea. One of the major reasons the DI transition has worked at NDSU is because it was part of a larger, comprehensive plan. If the athletic department moves alone, it creates resentment in the academic departments. A comprehensive plan eases those concerns and raises faculty/student support since they see tangible growth in their own departments. If Abbott can pull it off, a DI transition there might work. UND seems to have several of the pieces in place, but I haven't sensed an overarching structure or plan. Perhaps that will change after Kupchella's State of the University address next month.

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Maybe someone from Fargo can help me out on this one....Hopefully my math is correct...

If Fargo's population is greater than Grand Forks Population, then why does UND (12,954) have more students registered than NDSU (12,258) for CY06?? (http://www.UND.edu/profile/ vs http://www.ndsu.edu/news/index.php?ID=497&...ublish_article)

So if the above is true, why is there a bigger population of students at UND vs NDSU when Fargo is suppose to be this huge market of people that only hear about NDSU's supposed atheletic and academic progress at the expense of the small market folks in GF? Why is the supposedly small market that UND serves still producing higher enrollment numbers than its D-IAA neighbor to the South? Could it be that they are not the big market they think they are?:lol::blush:

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

What a great post - real logic in it. :huh:

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Oh Bob, I really wouldn't use that argument if I were you. It's only got one or two years of life left in it. In the Chapman/Kupchella-era(99-06), NDSU has grown by 2548(26.2%) while UND has grown by 2244(21.2%). The current difference(567) is, I believe, the smallest in post-WW2 ND history. If you go back to pre-flood numbers, the difference in growth rates grows worse. During 94-06(the furthest back I have numbers), the growths were 25.9%/11.4%, respectively. Chapman hit his 2005 goal of 12k students one year early, while Kupchella shows no signs of meeting his 2005 goal of 14k. BTW, please don't anyone use the stricter admission standards rationale; NDSU has used those same higher standards for years.

On the USD subject:

I have to say that, if true, I think USD has the right idea. One of the major reasons the DI transition has worked at NDSU is because it was part of a larger, comprehensive plan. If the athletic department moves alone, it creates resentment in the academic departments. A comprehensive plan eases those concerns and raises faculty/student support since they see tangible growth in their own departments. If Abbott can pull it off, a DI transition there might work. UND seems to have several of the pieces in place, but I haven't sensed an overarching structure or plan. Perhaps that will change after Kupchella's State of the University address next month.

Hammer,

Nice work on skirting the question...I'll make it really simple...Why isn't NDSU the bigger enrollment school if it has such a supposedly larger market presence than little ol' UND??

Truth hurts sometime doesn't??

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

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What a great post - real logic in it. :D

Bison Dan,

What's illogical about it? Its really the same arguement I hear from the Herd everytime they tell us poor little folk up North why they are the best thing since sliced bread! "Oh the Midcon loves us because we are a bigger market than UND...Blah, Blah, Blah...", "UND can't compete against such a big market as NDSU and FARGO", and "The Sioux will have to beg us to play them because we control the biggest market! Blah...Blah...Blah..."

If you think my arguement is illogical, then you must have gotten sick of drinking your own kool-aid pal! ;)

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

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Hammer,

Nice work on skirting the question...I'll make it really simple...Why isn't NDSU the bigger enrollment school if it has such a supposedly larger market presence than little ol' UND??

Truth hurts sometime doesn't??

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

Truth: UND has been the largest university in North Dakota for decades(I think it's always been larger, but I don't have numbers to prove it).

Truth: NDSU's growth rate during the past 13 years is more than twice that of UND's.

Truth: NDSU is aggressively pursuing graduate students. (90% increase since 1999)

Truth: NDSU is not aggressively pursuing undergraduate students.

Truth: NDSU currently has more undergraduate students than UND.

Truth: NDSU has 11% more freshmen than UND.

Extrapolation: NDSU's total enrollment will pass UND's within two years.

Opinion: NDSU:UND will equal Fargo:GF by 2015-2020.

I don't have a problem with the truth. I believe NDSU could be over 14k now, but there are not enough classrooms or dorms to handle that kind of increase. With the purchase of the two new downtown buildings, that will change. NDSU had a lot of ground to make up, and it's almost done. Smart growth takes time. If you want to get a little more use out of the old "UND is bigger than NDSU", I guess that's up to you, but it won't be good for much longer.

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Truth: UND has been the largest university in North Dakota for decades(I think it's always been larger, but I don't have numbers to prove it).

Truth: NDSU's growth rate during the past 13 years is more than twice that of UND's.

Truth: NDSU is aggressively pursuing graduate students. (90% increase since 1999)

Truth: NDSU is not aggressively pursuing undergraduate students.

Truth: NDSU currently has more undergraduate students than UND.

Truth: NDSU has 11% more freshmen than UND.

Extrapolation: NDSU's total enrollment will pass UND's within two years.

Opinion: NDSU:UND will equal Fargo:GF by 2015-2020.

I don't have a problem with the truth. I believe NDSU could be over 14k now, but there are not enough classrooms or dorms to handle that kind of increase. With the purchase of the two new downtown buildings, that will change. NDSU had a lot of ground to make up, and it's almost done. Smart growth takes time. If you want to get a little more use out of the old "UND is bigger than NDSU", I guess that's up to you, but it won't be good for much longer.

I have read where both schools are looking at leveling off around 14,000 to 15,000. Who gets there first doesn't really matter, if that is where they are both heading. Insofar as growth, UND had a huge graduating class last spring and increased admissions standards. With both of those factors UND still only declined less than 1%. Further, both schools need to have sustainable growth or they will both go back to having kids living in hotels. Not a good thing.

Size of school: Look at Auburn and Alabama. Auburn, I believe is the land grant school, is slightly larger than Alabama (main campus). Do you think that either school really cares? No, they are both great schools, just as UND and NDSU are. The schools in North Dakota, just as the schools in Alabama have different missions and different paths.

I have read where the most ardent NDSU supports are totally enamored with Chapman and the job that he has done and laugh at UND with Kupchella. I happen to think that Kupchella has done and continues to do a great job for the U. Look at all of the great news that has come out in the two week regarding UND. He clearly is doing something right. Keep it up President Kupchella.

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Bob, Why isn't Notre Dame a bigger school than UND since it has a bigger market than NDSU and UND combined? By your 'logic' it should be.

Biff,

The arguement was stated as so because the NDSU fans seem to think they have this huge market and little ol' UND doesn't...All I was trying to show is that given the hypothetical that their market is bigger than UNDs therefore we should expect they college size to be bigger due to the 'extra' exposure given by the supposed market.

Lastly, ND is a private institution that restricts its size anyway and isn't on the like growth plans stated by the ND schools....Anymore ?s

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

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I have read where both schools are looking at leveling off around 14,000 to 15,000. Who gets there first doesn't really matter, if that is where they are both heading. Insofar as growth, UND had a huge graduating class last spring and increased admissions standards. With both of those factors UND still only declined less than 1%. Further, both schools need to have sustainable growth or they will both go back to having kids living in hotels. Not a good thing.

Size of school: Look at Auburn and Alabama. Auburn, I believe is the land grant school, is slightly larger than Alabama (main campus). Do you think that either school really cares? No, they are both great schools, just as UND and NDSU are. The schools in North Dakota, just as the schools in Alabama have different missions and different paths.

I have read where the most ardent NDSU supports are totally enamored with Chapman and the job that he has done and laugh at UND with Kupchella. I happen to think that Kupchella has done and continues to do a great job for the U. Look at all of the great news that has come out in the two week regarding UND. He clearly is doing something right. Keep it up President Kupchella.

The arguement is not based on who can get to 14k first, but rather the proposition offered by many Bison fans on this site that they are leagues ahead of us in Football because of their large market share and that we would have to beg to play them in the future due to this awesome market share. My analogy was that since you claim to have this significant margin of market share over UND, a rationale person would assume that NDSU would also have the larger student population given that both schools are on growth strategies. The simple fact is that UND is a larger student body and thus the market theory seems to wither when that fact comes to light. Actually, I'll go as far as saying that the market share is actually better for UND than NDSU and thus it is why we have more students and will most likely hold onto this edge into the future.

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

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Fact is that NDSU probably will surpass UND in enrollment in a few years and that is fine, actually it's a good thing. It is good for the state of ND, that means that more in-state and out-state students are choosing to attend college in ND. I think in most states that the largest metro areas usually have the largest university. Someone brought up Notre Dame.......it is not the largest university in Indiana, but it is certainly the most visible, just like UND is in North Dakota. Nothing wrong with that! :silly:

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Biff,

The arguement was stated as so because the NDSU fans seem to think they have this huge market and little ol' UND doesn't...All I was trying to show is that given the hypothetical that their market is bigger than UNDs therefore we should expect they college size to be bigger due to the 'extra' exposure given by the supposed market.

Lastly, ND is a private institution that restricts its size anyway and isn't on the like growth plans stated by the ND schools....Anymore ?s

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

I know what you were trying to say. I was just pointing out that enrollment and city size is a poor relationship to market size. I should have picked a better example than ND, there are several.

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  • 3 weeks later...

This was posted over on D2football.com by GoYotes. I figured that some around here would find it pretty interesting.

This is an email that was sent out to everyone with a USD email address last week. I just thought I'd post it, it addresses some of the usual questions we see on here. I am rather disappointed in the lack of detail in the funding answer, but was pleased to read the part of the original email regarding the consultation firm. I look forward to being informed of the firm's recommendation.
This email is sent on behalf of the Athletic Review Task Force:

Dear Students,

As many of you are aware, President Abbott has appointed an Athletics Review Task Force charged with reviewing and exploring issues related to the classification and affiliation of our athletic programs. With assistance from members of the athletic department, the task force has compiled and is distributing to you a question and answer document, which provides some background for the process. Please see attachment.

The University has also contracted with Inter-Collegiate Athletic Consulting to provide additional assistance with the process. The Task Force met with representatives of this firm at its October 5th meeting, and will meet with them again in late October to receive some preliminary recommendations.

Attached PDF File:

October 2006

Q & A/Fact Sheet on Athletic Classification at The University of South Dakota

? What are USD?s options for NCAA Classification?

Essentially, the university has only two workable options to consider:

1) remain in DII, while recognizing the changing nature of DII institutions;

2) reclassification to DI in all sports other than football and reclassification to D1AA

for football only.

Several possibilities exist for conference affiliations within the North Central region at

the DII level. First, we have our current home in the North Central Conference (NCC).

However, during the past several years, the conference has lost member schools, and

current members are exploring other affiliation options. A second possibility is the

Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC), which is geographically favorable for

USD, but sets lower scholarship limits and has member schools with institutional

missions different than ours. A third possibility is the Mid-American Intercollegiate

Athletic Association (MIAA), a DII league with member schools based in Missouri and

Kansas. While this league does allow for scholarships to be offered at the maximum

level set by the NCAA, it is not a good fit geographically for USD, nor do its member

schools play a similar role in their states as USD plays in South Dakota.

USD has traditionally been a leader in scholarship offerings and this additional support

has kept our programs extremely competitive in the NCC, in our region, and nationally.

Thus, the option of staying at the high quality DII level, to which our fans have become

accustomed, could be compromised in the future.

? Why is USD considering this move today, after reiterating its DII status four years

ago?

Since reiterating its DII status in 2002, USD?s strongest partner institutions (academic,

geographic, mission, athletic) have left for DI/DIAA. These institutions include South

Dakota State University, North Dakota State University, the University of North Dakota

and the University of Northern Colorado.

Other member schools of the North Central Conference are in the process of examining

their athletic classifications. The University of Nebraska at Omaha recently announced

its intention to remain in NCAA Division II, but to seek membership in the MIAA.

Augustana College also has formed a committee similar to USD?s Athletic Review Task

Force and will likely announce its findings before the end of the year.

The classification decision is a 20-to-40 year decision. It will have long-term effects on

the ?perceived? and ?actual? institutional reputation of USD. The University of Northern

Iowa?s decision in the late 1970?s to elevate its athletic program to DI/DIAA has been a

significant contributor in raising the institution?s reputation among the residents of Iowa

in the present day.

? Will the academic profile of student-athletes change in a move to DI/DIAA?

A reclassification to DI/DIAA would fall in line with similar academically-minded

institutions to USD across the region and nation. In 2005, The Carnegie Foundation for

the Advancement of Teaching designated USD as a Doctoral Research University, which

is one of the highest academic profile rankings a school can receive. Of the

approximately 250 institutions which are currently members of the DII level, only 14 of

those schools were designated Doctoral Research Universities, including USD. Also of

note is USD was the only institution from any of the three DII conferences in the region

(NCC, NSIC and MIAA) to be designated a Doctoral Research University, not including

the University of North Dakota, which has announced its intentions to reclassify to DI.

? Would high school graduates from the state of South Dakota still have the

opportunity to play sports at USD if a move to DI/DIAA was made?

The opportunity to participate on USD athletic teams by South Dakota high school

graduates would be affected on a sport-by-sport basis. Several sports are limited, at any

level, in attracting South Dakota high school graduates, due to a lack of sport sponsorship

at the South Dakota High School Activities Association (i.e. women?s soccer, softball

and swimming & diving). In the past, some South Dakota athletes left the state in order

to have the opportunity to compete at the DI level.

Most sports would continue to implement a ?recruiting model? that begins locally and

regionally, and reaches out beyond the natural recruiting borders on occasion.

? Will USD have to add sport programs to go DI/DIAA?

USD currently meets the DI/DIAA requirements for sport program sponsorship. Any

addition/deletion of sport programs would be at the university?s discretion.

? Would USD have to add athletic scholarships with a move?

USD currently meets the minimum athletic scholarship requirements for DI/DIAA

membership. It is likely USD would add athletic scholarships for both women and men

to provide a greater level of competitiveness for the teams and the student-athletes.

? Would USD need to build any facilities immediately for a move? Would future

facilities need to be considered?

USD?s current athletic facilities would be adequate for reclassification, in the short-tomid-

term. Various upgrades and additions to facilities would need further consideration

in the future.

The DakotaDome is an extremely useful multi-purpose facility. However, the majority of

our peer institutions offer basketball and volleyball in a separate venue from football.

The separate venue would enhance recruiting, offer greater scheduling opportunities and

increase revenue. Also, the need for additional academic counseling, meeting room and

office space is evident, and not dependent upon NCAA classification.

? Are there adequate support systems in place to consider a move?

USD would be well positioned with the support systems both in the athletic department

and the university to reasonably accommodate student-athletes in a reclassification.

Consideration of additional personnel (academic support, fund-raising, strength &

conditioning as well as coaching) would be necessary when comparing USD with its

likely DI competition.

Currently, within the DII model, USD offers support systems consistent with many of our

peer institutions. However, at the DI level, additional personnel and space for academic

support would need to be provided. Finally, as the institution looks externally to help

fund this move, upgrades in fundraising personnel and programs will be essential.

? Would conference affiliation be necessary for a move?

No, although securing conference affiliation will need to be a priority in any

reclassification argument (as it would be in a DII model). There are recent signs that may

lead to a strengthening possibility in conference recruitment from a DI position. SDSU

and NDSU recently received offers to join an existing DI league, the Mid-Continent

Conference. Any Division I conference expansion into the North Central region is a

positive for schools considering reclassification. Also, there is reason to believe that

membership opportunities in an existing DIAA football conference would be available.

? How much would a move cost USD?

It is unknown the exact costs a reclassification to DI/DIAA would require. The average

budget for a DIAA athletic department with scholarship football is $7.9 million, with

USD?s budget currently standing at $5.0 million. Any additional funding would be

?phased-in? over the five-year reclassification period.

A comprehensive five-year fiscal plan (based upon an agreed upon set of assumptions)

will need to be developed, to demonstrate the probability that projected revenue will

actually be generated. Cohesive academic and athletic fund-raising efforts need to be

coordinated in the comprehensive fiscal plan.

? Would the additional funding come from University/State sources? Or from

Student Fees?

Current South Dakota Board of Regents (SD BOR) policy prohibits an institution from

funding an athletic reclassification from university/state funds or through increasing

student fees. This policy ?protects? the monies available for use by various departments

on campus, including the academic and teaching units.

? How does The University of South Dakota compare to DI institutions?

The University of South Dakota is a research university with a broad array of

undergraduate, graduate and professional degree programs. These academic

characteristics are more consistent with Division I institutions than with those in Division

II. USD?s peer institutions, regionally and nationally, sponsor Division I athletic

programs, either through an individual sport or the entire program.

Every flagship institution in the United States classifies at least one sport at the Division I

level, and most classify their entire athletic programs at that level. Although, the

University of North Dakota has sponsored Division I programs for several years in men?s

and recently in women?s hockey, their recent announcement indicates an intent to have

all sports competing at the Division I level, consistent with its flagship designation. In

addition, South Dakota is the only state in the United States that does not have its

flagship and primary land grant institution sponsoring DI athletics.

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  • 2 weeks later...

D-I Status Would Help USD

A consulting firm hired by the University of South Dakota recommended the school reclassify its athletic programs to NCAA Division I.

The recommendation was discussed at a Monday night meeting on the campus, where students and others discussed how moving to a higher level of athletics could shape USD's future.

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