Holdem

Its a factor.

When NWMSU lost its home playoff game because the field was not suitable they didnt lose their seed, they simply traveled to the opponents stadium. Since it all depends on a coin toss, homefield gives no advantage except number of fans.

I didn

Thats right, 8 auto bid conferences and 8 at large playoff bids in DI-AA. The auto bids are awarded each year. The GWFC probably wont get an auto bid no matter how many core members they have playing together for 2 or more years that are fully eligible. NDSU/SDSU want the Gateway. After that who cares? The Gateway might happen because of a move out by Western Kentucky. Its going to take a move to get you guys into a conference too. Only exception is the GWFC, you might make it in even if the Great Land Grants don't get the Gateway. I also think your going to have trouble unless the naming issue is settled. I don't know how it will come out, but the WCHA even talked about the appropriateness of your membership, but I think grandfathered it. Since they are here they are in. One last thing, Your going to be asking for a lot of help and favors. A lot of college presidents are going to resent your position, especially if you are trying to join a conference where other schools have changed, or are in other ways associated with schools that did. There is also going to be resentment for wasting NCAA resources. Whatever the outcome, the failure has been an inability to strike an accord with The Tribes.

I hope they get in too, but its not going to be any time soon. Hearing you guys talk about this reminds me of the talke by NDSU fans after the Decision 1 announcement. There were a lot of positives with the BSC and it looked like a lock. Fullerton was encouraging and things looked good. We had connectins at the presidential level and the field looked well plowed. Even if you do make the move, which wont happen at least until the lawsuit is settled, there will be no conference consideration until the third or fourth year of your tansition. The GWFC is a possibility, but allowing you in will have negative impacts on the playoff hopes since the GWFC is without an auto bid. Travel situations for the BSC schools opposed to moving east have not changed. Fullerton has been clear that nobody will be added from the Dakotas unless the BSC loses members. If the BSC does lose members it will be one or both of the Montana schools. The most likely things are those events that will grow from the current situation. When you start reaching, like starcity is doing, the considerations are interesting but improbable. Most likely to happen if the move is made: Eventual GWFC entry, joining the scheduling alliances set up by the Great Land Grants for other sports. Eventual application to the Mid Con or formalizing your BB scheduling alliances into a new conference if enough area schools move with you. I dont think there will be any consideration by the Mid Con until the 3 or 4th year of transition. If you are admitted it wont be until the transition is complete. A conference invite is no guarantee. If you move alone your geographic situation is similar to Pan American. It took IPFW almost 10 yrs. Your going to need a lot of support from the Great Land Grants if the Mid Con is in your future. Thats something that should have been considered when your administration was offering so much gracious support after Decision 1 was announced.

I hope they get in too, but its not going to be any time soon. Hearing you guys talk about this reminds me of the talk by NDSU fans after the Decision 1 announcement. There were a lot of positives with the BSC and it looked like a lock. Fullerton was encouraging and things looked good. We had connectins at the presidential level and the field looked well plowed. Even if you do make the move, which wont happen at least until the lawsuit is settled, there will be no conference consideration until the third or fourth year of your tansition. The GWFC is a possibility, but allowing you in will have negative impacts on the playoff hopes since the GWFC is without an auto bid. Travel situations for the BSC schools opposed to moving east have not changed. Fullerton has been clear that nobody will be added from the Dakotas unless the BSC loses members. If the BSC does lose members it will be one or both of the Montana schools. The most likely things are those events that will grow from the current situation. When you start reaching, like starcity is doing, the considerations are interesting but improbable. Most likely to happen if the move is made: Eventual GWFC entry, joining the scheduling alliances set up by the Great Land Grants for other sports. Eventual application to the Mid Con or formalizing your BB scheduling alliances into a new conference if enough area schools move with you. I dont think there will be any consideration by the Mid Con until the 3 or 4th year of transition. If you are admitted it wont be until the transition is complete.

Augi lost at your house by deciding on the FG too. The coaching calls are being questioned in other threads, making a point about the leadership. With over 200 yds rushing, UNO made a point about your defense. With well under 100 yds rushing they also made a point about your offense. Id say the week off will help.

Thanks for the post PCM, I think Mcfeely makes my point. Its time to move on and forget about it. You guys just can

Injury and inability to win today against Belmore and his inability to win will continue to be an issue with the QBs. Bright spot, Dressler. The type of game they played today, even though it was played well, isnt going to get them into the playoffs. USD is coming on strong. Getting better every week. UNO has climbed the mnt and now needs to play consistently. You guys seem to have plateaud a little early?

Is there any worry about this team? They opened strong but not spectacular. Then came the landmark win against UNI. After that its been a struggle. Western Washington could have won and Augi should have won. Mankato was a good win for you but the Mavericks were unimpressive. Now, UNO finally capitalizes on the average play that has plagued your team. The QB controversy isn't helping. Whats the deal?

I would say that officially ends the BSC big talk thread!

Nothing will happen in the BSC anyway unless members leave so while waiting for news I watched the John Wayne movie where he was the railroad agent trying to buy land for the Red River crossing at Fargo. He runs up against crooked land speculators but somehow prevails and gets the girl. Good movie. They correctly depicted Fargo on the Plains and Fargo on the River. Fargo on the Plains later grew to become West Fargo.

Dont forget about the railroads. They jump started Fargo. The river traffic is of course the original method of transportation. Another interesting phenomena is the fact that the flagship cities, at least in the USA, get larger as you move down the I-29 corridor. Fargo, Sioux Falls, Omaha, KC, Of course there are smaller towns in between but the flagship cities show the pattern. When you look at the MSAs the size differences between the flagships and other towns in the corridor become even more pronounced.

This cant be normal behavior? Obviously this is an outgrowth of the hostile and abusive campus atmosphere up there, Maybe the NCAA has a point? If this is your reality its a good idea to change. The NCAA might be right?

Nice win today. Mankato wasnt it?

I think your trying to steal the trademark by suing the NCAA. The lawsuit admits its all about money. Thats the basis of the so called damages, but yet you have not voluntered any payment to your sponser for use of the symbol besides the taxpayers contributions to your "Native American programs". Any support you are getting is from lumber heads that say stuff like yea, what about the Washington Redskins, or maybe even Sioux Falls?

I like the 7 points. Here is my take: Conventional wisdom of the NDSU Fan: 1) UND will lose to Northern Iowa, badly. 2) UND athletics is a basket case financially. 3) UND athletics will be stuck as an independent for a long, long time. 4) The FSSN has no impact on conference decision making. 5) UND has absolutely no leadership, and is doomed. 6) NDSU will surpass UND in stature. 7) Grand Forks has nothing whatsoever going for it and is destined to be a hell-hole. Conventional wisdom of the UND fan: 1) NDSU will get crushed by DI-A Ball State 2) NDSU will fail in DI, it' a waste of money, no local talent, no difference from D2 3) NDSU was foolish to move without conference invite, or at least a secret one. 4) UND hockey is the biggest thing in North Dakota 5) UND has absolutely no leadership and is doomed, Buning is ok though 6) NDSU will surpass UND in stature 7) Grand Forks has nothing whatsoever going for it and is destined to be a hell-hole

This thread is titled UND's Reclassification to Division I. Makes me wonder where you got the idea all of us would be talking about a game that wont be played this year or even say something like “we would kick their ass”. It seems to me issues surrounding the reclassification are being discussed. Stuff like this......Once the lawsuit is filed the reclassification will get a little tougher. Its not the NCAA a nebulous ruling body they are suing. Its NDSU, The Ohio State, UCLA, UCD etc, etc, etc. Its all the members of the NCAA that will pay this bill defending the organizations right to govern its own championship events.

I take issue with Wyobison and others. The idea that I was posting in this thread to fish people into an argument is way off the wall. There are contrasting ideas that some of you cant handle. Obviously when you turn it into a personal argument you have lost. I expect the renwal will be a matter of fact at some point in the future, but the reasons to avoid it are sound. I hope none of you are offended because I take that side.

I see all of you trying to make strong arguments for the game because you need it. You have nothing significant to offer NDSU that we dont already have. What your offering are marginal benefits. Nothing we cant get from scheduling with any number of programs across the country. We will have more BISON fans at the Metro Dome in few weeks than you guys average. We did need the game but survived just fine without it and have outgrown any of the old reasons to resume: 1) our stadium is no longer half full. 2) Our ability to bring in marquee opponents no longer makes an association with you necessary 3) Our market is the largest in the State. No need to put you guys in the lime lite. You have your own stadium and your own market. The idea that the $27.50 tickets wasnt ill will is absurd. We know what happened. The only thing right was the nature of NDSU Football. It is big time. The other funny point made is typical. Revise the past, in this case lower the seating capacity, and now, years later, declare the thing a sellout! That is rich! Of course there are two sides to everything. The important thing for NDSU is to keep it all in perspective, look at the relationship at all levels, not just athletics, how we benefited from your actions and what your intentions have been and will be. What kind of partner have you been? That is why we will expect very little from you in hockey. We saw what you had to offer, nothing thank you. Now you may need a conference and some help from us. Some of the arguments presented in rebuttal are good ones. Others are telling examples of everything that is wrong with what some are calling "The Renewal". Keeping the market split is in the best interest to North Dakota football fans. More will see their team play and more revenues will be generated with the teams staying at home. Of course, like in your case, if your options are limited you would be seeking out a chance to play in Fargo. But the question remains why are you so eager to play NDSU when just a few short years ago contracts were thrown out? My guess, you are on the outside looking in. Thats why a renwal will look like this: 1) Single game contract for the Fabulous Fargo Dome with no guarantee to make up for the lost NCC game. 2) Single game contract for the Fabulous Fargo Dome with a typical bus trip guarantee. Good luck on your scheduling. Im sure you will get 10 or 11 games and your hockey relationships may help. I know we will have a full schedule too. Nice showing against W Washington. Your come back is the sign of a strong and focused team.

Thanks for the reply. On the Hockey question, if NDSU were ever to make that move I dont think we would be relying on you for anything. When we did show an interest in starting a program I didnt see much support coming from your school. The stance your school took was no NDSU membership in the WCHA but a few games might be possible. Thanks for the help. Secondly, the problem with your road game argument is that both teams will be IN North Dakota. Its the fans here in North Dakota that will lose out. The way to maximize revenues is not to play. More North Dakota fans will be ticket buyers without the game. Thirdly, when ticket prices were raised to $27.50 your place was not sold out. NDSU always put a few extra dollars on the game with you guys. The $27.50 was an act of ill will reinforcing the underlying argument that the association is not good for NDSU. We do much better without you. The need for you to play NDSU is apparent in the posts I read around the boards. You guys are going to have a lot of trouble playing in our shadow. The only way you can get out of it is to get on our schedules. How could that happen? 1) A single game contract that would bring you to Fargo for zero dollars, making up for the lost NCC game. 2) A single game contract for a typical bus fare team. There would be no return obligation. You already had that contract and threw it out.

I appreciate the hockey programs success and the fans it entertains. But Bison football is as big an event as you have in North Dakota, not UND football. NDSU is averaging just under 16,000 right now. There is no economic impact in Fargo with you guys in town. You can only add 3,000 extra fans. It may even add less in your town because your football arena is so small. In fact, having the teams play would reduce combined attendance for the two schools from say 26 - 27,000 to 19,000 at the most, or if played in your town 12,250. That leaves a lot of money on the table. If the game was played in your town about 15,000 people would be left out. What about those revenues? No, the revenue argument holds no water. There is no ducking you. We can schedule whom we please, the teams we want to play. There is no obligation to put you on our marquee. Certainly you will have some big games, but it gets expensive to pay the big gurantee when you dont have enough seats. NDSU has 7,000 extra seats. Thats huge not only for recruits but for revnue growth and overall impact of the event on the State. Thats why you will come running when we snap our fingers.

Good post. Check out the Forum. http://www.in-forum.com/sports/ NDSU has the first five or six stories. Somewhere down past the old high school scores, the Valley City State game, and some other things is the UND game. Far more typical of hockey coverage. Good win for you guys. Its a good win when you dont play your best. Sign of a real good team.

I think the fans from this board that have stepped up with a new attitude might be the future. I hope so. I really enjoy the camaraderie and sportsmanship of Division 1. NDSU had a big win tonight. Sit back and enjoy it.

Well DakotaDan, Look at the papers tomorrow. You will know what Im talking about then. The Fargo Forum is the largest circulation paper in the state in the state's largest city. Home of the NDSU Bison!! Wont be much hockey news tomorrow!!