Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[yababy8]

ha. yeah, that could make for an interesting twist, huh? at this point, i think it will play out as it should. if standing rock gets a vote put together in time, their decision will be honored (i say their decision without including the decision of spirit lake since both tribes need to approve and spirit lake already approved. therefore, it's all on the standing rock decision. i don't mean to undermine the decision already made at spirit lake). if standing rock doesn't get a vote put together before the november deadline, then the name will be retired.

it seems like everything is going in the right direction at this time and i'm all for getting rid of the name if standing rock either votes to retire or doesn't vote at all.

I will not be OK with it at all if Standing Rock does not have a vote.

One overwhelming yes vote by SL and one obstention by SR, when added to the fact that the Sioux name and logo are not objectively either hostile or abusive equals an abomination if it were to be taken away from all who have invested a big part of their life in their association with it.

There is no good sense or logic in "beeing OK" with something like that.

All of these technicalities of this retarded process have muddied the rediculousness of this whole thing in the first place. This is how moronic practicess become inherent in the status quo. Humans are so easily manipulated..

Here is a perspective to ponder a bit;

One could say that all of the people targeted to be honored by the use of the Sioux nickname are dead. So, Who the hell is anyone to say, yeah or neah to UND's use of the name.

That is just one of the many angles from which you could attack the reasonability, or lack there of, of this whole thing.

[mikejm]

You all are aware there is a petition being circulated at Spirit Lake to rescind the "approval" right? I understand there are several hundred signatures on the petition already. This is why the settlement with the NCAA called for a 30-year contract with the tribes.

[Knickball2]

The petition being circulated at Spirit Lake by one Erich Longie will not result in a different outcome, the youth on the reservations tend to support the nickname and logo, they are more openminded than any of the anti-nickname fools. The youth will not be told how to vote and that since they disagree with the Ron His Horse Is Thunder, Jesse Taken Alive, or Erich Longie, they need to be further educated so their minds will be changed, that's Erich Longie's argument. Doesn't hold water, those individuals that are signing his petition, are the same individuals that voted with his bloc the first time, no large scale reversal. These fools are 100% afraid that the Standing Rock vote is going to mirror the initial Spirit Lake vote, I believe that the Standing Rock vote will result in an even larger approval percentage. So to you Best Buyson, the issue is not dead, it will be reconsidered, and we will be Fighting Sioux in 2010-11, 2011-12, 2012-13 and beyond, Summit League or no Summit League. This has always been about the loudmouthed minority of the minority, once the vote at Standing Rock takes place, these individuals will finally melt back into obscurity, without this issue to champion they have no cause. Not emotion, Fact!

[MplsBison]

So when is the Standing Rock scheduled to vote?

[siouxhockeygirl14]

The petition being circulated at Spirit Lake by one Erich Longie will not result in a different outcome, the youth on the reservations tend to support the nickname and logo, they are more openminded than any of the anti-nickname fools. The youth will not be told how to vote and that since they disagree with the Ron His Horse Is Thunder, Jesse Taken Alive, or Erich Longie, they need to be further educated so their minds will be changed, that's Erich Longie's argument. Doesn't hold water, those individuals that are signing his petition, are the same individuals that voted with his bloc the first time, no large scale reversal. These fools are 100% afraid that the Standing Rock vote is going to mirror the initial Spirit Lake vote, I believe that the Standing Rock vote will result in an even larger approval percentage. So to you Best Buyson, the issue is not dead, it will be reconsidered, and we will be Fighting Sioux in 2010-11, 2011-12, 2012-13 and beyond, Summit League or no Summit League. This has always been about the loudmouthed minority of the minority, once the vote at Standing Rock takes place, these individuals will finally melt back into obscurity, without this issue to champion they have no cause. Not emotion, Fact!

I have Eunice Davidson as a friend on Facebook and I asked her about it.She said even if they get enough signatures another vote won't happen.She also said that a lot of people that orginally voted aganist the name and logo would vote to keep it today if they had another chance because some of the actions of the oppostion in one incident someone tore up the petiton when it was presented to them.

[ScottM]

You all are aware there is a petition being circulated at Spirit Lake to rescind the "approval" right? I understand there are several hundred signatures on the petition already. This is why the settlement with the NCAA called for a 30-year contract with the tribes.

And that specter of rescission is precisely why I knew the name/logo were doomed when tribal consent was a prerequisite of the so-called "Settlement". Dealing with the whims of "sovereign" nations, whether Indian tribes or banana republics, is always dicey, and a piss-poor foundation for any agreement. It also helps explain why many businesses, e.g., large banks, insurance companies, etc. are often reluctant to do business in "Indian Country".

[krangodance]

I will not be OK with it at all if Standing Rock does not have a vote.

One overwhelming yes vote by SL and one obstention by SR, when added to the fact that the Sioux name and logo are not objectively either hostile or abusive equals an abomination if it were to be taken away from all who have invested a big part of their life in their association with it.

There is no good sense or logic in "beeing OK" with something like that.

All of these technicalities of this retarded process have muddied the rediculousness of this whole thing in the first place. This is how moronic practicess become inherent in the status quo. Humans are so easily manipulated..

Here is a perspective to ponder a bit;

One could say that all of the people targeted to be honored by the use of the Sioux nickname are dead. So, Who the hell is anyone to say, yeah or neah to UND's use of the name.

That is just one of the many angles from which you could attack the reasonability, or lack there of, of this whole thing.

if the november deadline comes and goes and standing rock has still not held a vote, then we're all just going to have to accept the consequences. they'll have had three years by then to put a vote together.

i hope they do get a vote together, but i for one will be ready to give up the fight if the vote can't get done in time to beat the november deadline.

let's just hope for the vote before then, which i think will happen.

[MplsBison]

if the november deadline comes and goes and standing rock has still not held a vote, then we're all just going to have to accept the consequences. they'll have had three years by then to put a vote together.

i hope they do get a vote together, but i for one will be ready to give up the fight if the vote can't get done in time to beat the november deadline.

let's just hope for the vote before then, which i think will happen.

So if they vote 85% in support of the nickname, the largest turnout on SR ever.....but in Dec 2010....you won't demand that the SBoHE reverse its decision on the nickname?

[Oxbow6]

And that specter of rescission is precisely why I knew the name/logo were doomed when tribal consent was a prerequisite of the so-called "Settlement". Dealing with the whims of "sovereign" nations, whether Indian tribes or banana republics, is always dicey, and a piss-poor foundation for any agreement. It also helps explain why many businesses, e.g., large banks, insurance companies, etc. are often reluctant to do business in "Indian Country".

The 30-year agreement has, IMO, been the biggest issue from day 1. I just can't see how, even if SR votes to keep the nickname, that the 2 tribes will come to an acceptable 30-year deal with the limited time available from now to November.

[mikejm]

The 30-year agreement has, IMO, been the biggest issue from day 1. I just can't see how, even if SR votes to keep the nickname, that the 2 tribes will come to an acceptable 30-year deal with the limited time available from now to November.

The elephant in the room here is that this could've all been done ten years ago when Ralph was building the rink. All he had to do was go to each of the tribes with $5-10 mil and say, "here. I'll try to get you a piece of the action on merchandise sales, too. But take the money and sign this contract giving UND the right to use the name/logo."

Adding $10 million to the budget would've been nothing.

[star2city]

The 30-year agreement has, IMO, been the biggest issue from day 1. I just can't see how, even if SR votes to keep the nickname, that the 2 tribes will come to an acceptable 30-year deal with the limited time available from now to November.

The precedent of the referendums are powerful. The tribes may very well agree that only a referendum may retract the nickname, keeping tribal politicians out of the issue.

If Standing Rock votes and approves the nickname, the legitimacy of the Sioux nickname becomes ironclad.

GF Herald editorial

Last week on talk radio station KNOX-AM 1310, Steve Fool Bear was asked how North Dakotans could be sure that a pro-nickname decision by the state

[iramurphy]

The elephant in the room here is that this could've all been done ten years ago when Ralph was building the rink. All he had to do was go to each of the tribes with $5-10 mil and say, "here. I'll try to get you a piece of the action on merchandise sales, too. But take the money and sign this contract giving UND the right to use the name/logo."

Adding $10 million to the budget would've been nothing.

Maybe to you $10 million is nothing but to Ralph $10-20 million is a lot of money. How did you think he became wealthy? Certainly not by being stupid and not by throwing his money away. UND didn't do anything wrong after they were given permissnion to use the name years ago. The activists and the Tribal governments changed their minds. We seem to have a lot of people looking for someone to blame and something someone else should have done. To many of the Native Americans, this issue isn't that important and that includes most who vote to support the name. They have more important things to worry about.

I don't believe it is consistent with their own cultures claim of respecting their elders to go back on their previous approval of the name but the ball is in their court.

Anyone who thinks UND sports is the name or logo is mistaken. It is a part of it, but the players, coaches and those relationships and the shared experience is what makes UND athletics including hockey tradition so strong. I would offer UND's resources of academic workshops, athletic coaches clinics etc. but I would not give one penny to anyone for the purpose of keeping the name.

[MplsBison]

Maybe to you $10 million is nothing but to Ralph $10-20 million is a lot of money. How did you think he became wealthy? Certainly not by being stupid and not by throwing his money away. UND didn't do anything wrong after they were given permissnion to use the name years ago. The activists and the Tribal governments changed their minds. We seem to have a lot of people looking for someone to blame and something someone else should have done. To many of the Native Americans, this issue isn't that important and that includes most who vote to support the name. They have more important things to worry about.

I don't believe it is consistent with their own cultures claim of respecting their elders to go back on their previous approval of the name but the ball is in their court.

Anyone who thinks UND sports is the name or logo is mistaken. It is a part of it, but the players, coaches and those relationships and the shared experience is what makes UND athletics including hockey tradition so strong. I would offer UND's resources of academic workshops, athletic coaches clinics etc. but I would not give one penny to anyone for the purpose of keeping the name.

There was probably no way Ralph could've known back then that the NCAA was going to start the hostile and abusive program and thus give those activists authority to do something about it.

But the point still stands, IMO, once the state settled with the NCAA, you've had all this time to cut a deal with the tribes and make them business partners in the nickname.

I didn't see anything even close to that happen.

[mikejm]

Maybe to you $10 million is nothing but to Ralph $10-20 million is a lot of money...

Yeah, $10 mil is nothing to me.

Ralph's gift was initially $50 mil for a rink, and $50 mil for academics. By the time he was done flying around the country looking at other rinks and adding in stuff he saw that he liked, he'd spent more than $100 mil on the rink alone. He could've added $10 mil more to the budget without batting an eye.

And whether or not Ralph could've foreseen the NCAA's hostile and abusive campaign is immaterial. There was already a very visible and vocal "dump the nickname" movement on campus and around the state. He knew there was at least a possibility the thing would go beyond the tipping point. Heck, it happened while he was building the rink.

I don't blame the current situation on Ralph, but he was in a position to solve it a long time ago.

[GeauxSioux]

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>">

[MoreSiouxForYou]

Anyone who thinks UND sports is the name or logo is mistaken. It is a part of it, but the players, coaches and those relationships and the shared experience is what makes UND athletics including hockey tradition so strong. I would offer UND's resources of academic workshops, athletic coaches clinics etc. but I would not give one penny to anyone for the purpose of keeping the name.

You are correct. The logo is no different, in idea, than say the US Flag. It in itself may not be that great but it is an image and a bonding idea that instills a sense of pride and ownership in that which it represents.

[yababy8]

You are correct. The logo is no different, in idea, than say the US Flag. It in itself may not be that great but it is an image and a bonding idea that instills a sense of pride and ownership in that which it represents.

Excellent analogy!!

[krangodance]

So if they vote 85% in support of the nickname, the largest turnout on SR ever.....but in Dec 2010....you won't demand that the SBoHE reverse its decision on the nickname?

it would be out of the sbohe's hands at that point. und would not have fulfilled the ncaa requirement to keep the name. if your scenario did come true and the ncaa agreed to give und permission to continue using the name, then of course i'd support that decision, as the sbohe likely would. your scenario is highly unlikely though.

[MoreSiouxForYou]

You all are aware there is a petition being circulated at Spirit Lake to rescind the "approval" right? I understand there are several hundred signatures on the petition already. This is why the settlement with the NCAA called for a 30-year contract with the tribes.

I believe the 30 year part came from the SBoHE last spring. NCAA only requires tribal approval but the SBoHE wants a 30 year contract so that we are not going to be dealing with this again for a long time. It is the largest hurdle because even if both tribes voted in favor of, Tribal politics may still make it impossible because of council changes.

The reason for the three year term according to something I read when it was agreed on was that it was two election cycles at both tribes. The people of each reservation should be able to vote in the people who shared their point of views to the councils because the councils have to give consent. Just like how we don't actually elect our own presidents(electoral college) or actually make our own laws(congress), they were to select representatives of the majority opinion.

Also, abstaining from a vote is a right. If I choose not to vote for president or a government official it is my right to say I don't feel a choice or candadite represents what I think. In that case, the majority chooses, but I made my stand. Wouldn't SR abstaining from a vote in this case represent their will to allow someone else to decide for them?

I am proname but, that is the way I see that.

[MplsBison]

it would be out of the sbohe's hands at that point. und would not have fulfilled the ncaa requirement to keep the name. if your scenario did come true and the ncaa agreed to give und permission to continue using the name, then of course i'd support that decision, as the sbohe likely would. your scenario is highly unlikely though.

What is magical about Nov 30th 2010? What if the SR votes on Dec 1st, 12:01am to support the nickname? Oh too bad, it's too late now?

I find it very hard to believe that all the fire and passion for the Sioux nickname simply vanishes because the numbers on the calendar advance forward by one.

[MplsBison]

I believe the 30 year part came from the SBoHE last spring. NCAA only requires tribal approval but the SBoHE wants a 30 year contract so that we are not going to be dealing with this again for a long time. It is the largest hurdle because even if both tribes voted in favor of, Tribal politics may still make it impossible because of council changes.

The reason for the three year term according to something I read when it was agreed on was that it was two election cycles at both tribes. The people of each reservation should be able to vote in the people who shared their point of views to the councils because the councils have to give consent. Just like how we don't actually elect our own presidents(electoral college) or actually make our own laws(congress), they were to select representatives of the majority opinion.

Also, abstaining from a vote is a right. If I choose not to vote for president or a government official it is my right to say I don't feel a choice or candadite represents what I think. In that case, the majority chooses, but I made my stand. Wouldn't SR abstaining from a vote in this case represent their will to allow someone else to decide for them?

I am proname but, that is the way I see that.

Sorry, gray areas are not allowed on message boards.

[GeauxSioux]

What is magical about Nov 30th 2010? What if the SR votes on Dec 1st, 12:01am to support the nickname? Oh too bad, it's too late now?

I find it very hard to believe that all the fire and passion for the Sioux nickname simply vanishes because the numbers on the calendar advance forward by one.

Because paragraph 2.a. of the settlement with the NCAA says it is magical.

[MplsBison]

Because paragraph 2.a. of the settlement with the NCAA says it is magical.

That wasn't the point.

The point is: I find it very hard to believe that all the fire and passion for the Sioux nickname simply vanishes because the numbers on the calendar advance forward by one.

[LB#11]

The point is: I find it very hard to believe that all the fire and passion for the Sioux nickname simply vanishes because the numbers on the calendar advance forward by one.

The point is simple...you don't get the passion of being a fan of the Sioux nickname & all the pride & joy it's brought to a lot of us through the years. There are people like yourself that would love to see that passion, pride & joy destroyed. I get the politics of this issue, but why you do what you do I don't get.

[MplsBison]

The point is simple...you don't get the passion of being a fan of the Sioux nickname & all the pride & joy it's brought to a lot of us through the years. There are people like yourself that would love to see that passion, pride & joy destroyed. I get the politics of this issue, but why you do what you do I don't get.

I never claimed to "get it".

I'm saying, just because you wake up on Dec 1st 2010 and there has been no Standing Rock vote does not mean all your passion for the Sioux nickname is going to vanish into the thin air.