Homecoming: Western Illinois @ UND

[wheelsup]

43 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Tommy is not averaging over 5 yards per attempt in the big games.  He also does not like to run . With “adequate” QB play the rest of the team needs to be better than the opponent. 
 

Far easier to defend a team where the QB doesn’t throw deep and won’t run.  We need Tommy to be at 8+ yards per attempt on Saturday and have half a dozen runs for 30 yards.

 

38 minutes ago, shep said:

The WR crew has gotten better, but I am still not seeing a ton of explosiveness from them in general. I don't care how far your QB can toss the pigskin if his receivers aren't out there to catch it.

 

 

• I think Tommy might be a little too aware of his completion percentage.  Every so often he needs to throw the ball and let the WR make a play.  Instead of making sure the WR is wide open before throwing.
• I know his stats were decent against Western Illinois.. but I was at the game and the majority of his passing yards had to be YAC... it was short pass.. short pass.. short pass.. On his longest pass of the day (in the box score) I think he threw it about 6 inches to Red. On a couple of his longer throws the WR fell down.  I noticed we seemed to be slipping a bit on Saturday so it would be nice to get the footwear situation sorted out by Saturday.
• Tommy doesnt seem to like to run but he is elusive.  There were a couple times in the last game that I thought he was going to be crushed and he somehow got out of it 
• I thought Elidor and Nate D were supposed to help fix the explosiveness issue.  I love watching Red out there.  I cant wait to see Vuciri out there!  Ive heard a couple on here refer to Tai as well.
• Whenever I get too negative about Tommy all I have to do is remember Ketteringham, which also might be an argument for starting a freshman. We would have certainly won more games if Tommy had started his first year instead sticking with Kett.  Somehow I would like to see more of Feeney... but my assumption is that Danny gets to see them everyday and also really wants to win games.

[shep]

Saw the players slipping too. It’s turf; was there a concert recently?

[Goose15]

11 hours ago, iramurphy said:

You don’t get to start cuz of your potential. Give the kid a chance to adjust to the speed and complexity of the college game. 

Exactly! Rush to play the kid as a true freshman and maybe he isn't ready and we ruin him or redshirt a kid with a ton of potential so we have an extra year of him playing at a high level when he is ready?

[The Sicatoka]

The play to set up the third TD, to Kupfer (and I'm still not sure it wasn't a TD): Schuster never gets credit for passes that well thrown (location and placement). 

[The Sicatoka]

Folks don't think Kaminsky was recruited with full knowledge of what the path (redshirt) would likely be. He was recruited by a former QB for that guy's offense (Freund) and his dad is a coach. He surely understands he needs time for mental (learn the offense) and physical development. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

12 hours ago, iramurphy said:

He is averaging over 10 yds  per completion and over 7 yds per attempt. 
I don’t believe he will put a team on his back and win games. What he does well is protect the ball and he doesn’t lose games for you. I think Feeney has a bigger upside but I’m not at practice everyday. Feeney needs to be patient and hopefully his time will come sooner rather than later. Don’t forget Romfo has also shown promise. 

Boise???????? winnable game if we had a qb that didn't crap themselves.

[SIOUXFAN97]

11 hours ago, Sioux94 said:

I think the big difference between Gronowski starting as a true freshman and Kaminski is there was nobody proven ahead of him. I haven't looked any of this up but I think SDSU graduates their stud QB.......and the next year Gronowski took over and beat out the other guy who they were not maybe even that high in, it's not like Gronowski came in and took the starting spot from a 3 year starter that was on the Walter Payton watch list. 

To your point though SDSU would have absolutely won that Championship game if he was healthy the whole game IMO. But I would also bet even Kaminski's dad is probably ok with Jerry red shirting this year. 

I am also with you though us struggling to move the ball with Tommy in against NDSU this week. We can't dink and dunk against good teams all DECADE long and expect to win. 

FIXED

[SIOUXFAN97]

2 hours ago, shep said:

The WR crew has gotten better, but I am still not seeing a ton of explosiveness from them in general. I don't care how far your QB can toss the pigskin if his receivers aren't out there to catch it.

 

 

he's open.......is this an explosive play/chunk play if tommy a. leads him b. hits him in the hands.

maybe but we'll never know bc of pic 2...

ps....reed manke and klancher and stein and bowenkamp and kelby make this throw with their eyes closed every day and night.

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

Yeah, I've been thinking about the "dink and dunk" comments regarding the passing game, and it seems like most are putting that blame on Tommy's arm.  That's not fair because he's able to throw 20-30+ yard pass plays, but a lot of things need to come together for a long pass play to happen, not just what the QB is doing or his arm strength.  Need to get good line protection to allow time for receivers to get separation, provided they can.

this pass was 20+ yds underthrown..........

against a good team this is otherwise known as an an incomplete pass..........

 

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, wheelsup said:

 

• I think Tommy might be a little too aware of his completion percentage.  Every so often he needs to throw the ball and let the WR make a play.  Instead of making sure the WR is wide open before throwing.
• I know his stats were decent against Western Illinois.. but I was at the game and the majority of his passing yards had to be YAC... it was short pass.. short pass.. short pass.. On his longest pass of the day (in the box score) I think he threw it about 6 inches to Red. On a couple of his longer throws the WR fell down.  I noticed we seemed to be slipping a bit on Saturday so it would be nice to get the footwear situation sorted out by Saturday.
• Tommy doesnt seem to like to run but he is elusive.  There were a couple times in the last game that I thought he was going to be crushed and he somehow got out of it 
• I thought Elidor and Nate D were supposed to help fix the explosiveness issue.  I love watching Red out there.  I cant wait to see Vuciri out there!  Ive heard a couple on here refer to Tai as well.
• Whenever I get too negative about Tommy all I have to do is remember Ketteringham, which also might be an argument for starting a freshman. We would have certainly won more games if Tommy had started his first year instead sticking with Kett.  Somehow I would like to see more of Feeney... but my assumption is that Danny gets to see them everyday and also really wants to win games.

All very good points.  Tommy is very conservative with the ball, which obviously has positive points, but once in awhile we need to take a shot.  I also agree on Kett.  He actually cost us a few games with boneheaded plays, in Tommy's defense, his deficiency is not making big plays for us, not making dumb plays to lose the game for us.

[Dustin]

12 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

this pass was 20+ yds underthrown..........

against a good team this is otherwise known as an an incomplete pass..........

 

This particular play doesn't really fit my example, but I know you want to point it out to make your own different point, which has been belabored.

[iramurphy]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Tommy is not averaging over 5 yards per attempt in the big games.  He also does not like to run . With “adequate” QB play the rest of the team needs to be better than the opponent. 
 

Far easier to defend a team where the QB doesn’t throw deep and won’t run.  We need Tommy to be at 8+ yards per attempt on Saturday and have half a dozen runs for 30 yards.

To state “Tommy doesn’t like to run” is nonsense. Unless he says that we don’t know. Running isn’t his strength. If need Tommy to run for 180yds we are in for a long afternoon.
If we get 180yds from one of our RB’s we should be in good shape. If that happens we will get yardage from our other RB’s and that should help our passing game, hopefully by slowing down the pass rush and giving Tommy more time to get through his reads. I don’t think he needs to run for 180yds but if he can avoid turnovers and avoid the rush he can be effective.
 He can throw 30-40 yds When he has time. It also allows receivers more time to get open. The majority of long pass plays aren’t cuz the QB is throwing the ball 40-50yds to wide open receivers. If one looks at yesterday’s NFL box scores they list longest reception for all receivers. There were only 6 guys who caught a pass that went over 40yds and only 2 that went over 60yds.
I would rather get to our reads faster, and see our receivers accelerate off of their breaks into the open seems against zone and away from defenders against man. I think that is one of the things that makes Belquist so effective. We have guys who can run a 4.5 maybe 4.4 40’s. We need to get open in the 10-25 yd areas. The 4.4-4.5 speed puts pressure on the defenders to respect the deep ball. but most long passes are from YAC not a guy who beats everyone on a go pattern. 
I agree with most who feel the key, as in most games, is the LOS. If we avoid turnovers, protect our QB and get a push off the LOS in the run game we will be tough to stop. Our defense must be able to stop the run and pressure their QB without letting them break free. They do throw to their TE and they will likely try to get guys open in crossing patterns. If we can do that, avoid any mistakes in punt/kick off, I like our chances. Lots of rhetoric to state we need a complete game every play from everyone of our guys. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

3 minutes ago, Dustin said:

This particular play doesn't really fit my example, but I know you want to point it out to make your own different point, which has been belabored.

belabored but not debunked....

horrible throw.

[SIOUXFAN97]

2 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

To state “Tommy doesn’t like to run” is nonsense. Unless he says that we don’t know. Running isn’t his strength. If need Tommy to run for 180yds we are in for a long afternoon.
If we get 180yds from one of our RB’s we should be in good shape. If that happens we will get yardage from our other RB’s and that should help our passing game, hopefully by slowing down the pass rush and giving Tommy more time to get through his reads. I don’t think he needs to run for 180yds but if he can avoid turnovers and avoid the rush he can be effective.
 He can throw 30-40 yds When he has time. It also allows receivers more time to get open. The majority of long pass plays aren’t cuz the QB is throwing the ball 40-50yds to wide open receivers. If one looks at yesterday’s NFL box scores they list longest reception for all receivers. There were only 6 guys who caught a pass that went over 40yds and only 2 that went over 60yds.
I would rather get to our reads faster, and see our receivers accelerate off of their breaks into the open seems against zone and away from defenders against man. I think that is one of the things that makes Belquist so effective. We have guys who can run a 4.5 maybe 4.4 40’s. We need to get open in the 10-25 yd areas. The 4.4-4.5 speed puts pressure on the defenders to respect the deep ball. but most long passes are from YAC not a guy who beats everyone on a go pattern. 
I agree with most who feel the key, as in most games, is the LOS. If we avoid turnovers, protect our QB and get a push off the LOS in the run game we will be tough to stop. Our defense must be able to stop the run and pressure their QB without letting them break free. They do throw to their TE and they will likely try to get guys open in crossing patterns. If we can do that, avoid any mistakes in punt/kick off, I like our chances. Lots of rhetoric to state we need a complete game every play from everyone of our guys. 

you don't get MORE TIME than this....

 

[The Sicatoka]

Tai was run out there so Belquist and Wilson could stay on the sidelines after they were dinged. It's one of four games he can appear in with no impact on redshirt status. < yawn > 

Freund's offense is not a "big arm" offense, it's a game manager's offense. (Never forget: Trent Dilfer has a SB ring; Dan Marino does not.) When a UND WR is running 30+ yards downfield and is open it's blown coverage, not design. 

The "double vision" backfield (Romfo twins) was to get that power game offense on film; let 'em stew. Running Feeney and Romfo out was to keep wear off Tommy and to get those two on film. 

How many teams can say their #1, #2, #3, and last season's #2, each had at least one rushing TD in a game. 

[HoopsFan03]

4 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

 Freund's offense is not a "big arm" offense, it's a game manager's offense. (Never forget: Trent Dilfer has a SB ring; Dan Marino does not.) When a UND WR is running 30+ yards downfield and is open it's blown coverage, not design. 

Not sure I buy this. I think Danny built the offense around non-arm Tommy and is trying to make the best with what he was given. I think if Danny had a QB with any sort of an arm the offense would look a lot different. 

[Dustin]

For the people who say Tommy doesn't have a big enough arm, how far would you like him (or another QB) to throw?

[Dustin]

12 minutes ago, Dustin said:

For the people who say Tommy doesn't have a big enough arm, how far would you like him (or another QB) to throw?

This is just for my information.  I am not necessarily out to defend him or criticize him.

[The Sicatoka]

Anything short of low-earth orbit is unacceptable ... at least to some. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

19 minutes ago, HoopsFan03 said:

Not sure I buy this. I think Danny built the offense around non-arm Tommy and is trying to make the best with what he was given. I think if Danny had a QB with any sort of an arm the offense would look a lot different. 

imo it's bubbas call on tommy to be his qb this year and next bc it's safer for his job employment this last couple years before retirement ....danny being younger would be more prone to going with trey or jerry knowing that those guys could/are program game changers at the qb position but also come with risk of learning on the job

if bubba wins six or more games a year he basically has a lifetime contract at und

[HoopsFan03]

12 minutes ago, Dustin said:

For the people who say Tommy doesn't have a big enough arm, how far would you like him (or another QB) to throw?

It's not even just the fact that he can't throw the ball far, it's also that he can't put any zip on the ball when he needs to. There are throws that need to made on a line that he can't do. Every pass has to have some air under it and be a touch pass. 

I pointed it out when Feeney came in at the end of the SDSU game but his ball just looks different. It has some zip on it, it's a tight spiral, and he can make throws (including the deep ball) that Tommy cannot make. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

16 minutes ago, Dustin said:

For the people who say Tommy doesn't have a big enough arm, how far would you like him (or another QB) to throw?

forget the long ones for now...how the short to intermediate ones that move the chains..........see below.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Again, the ball to Kupfer, I don't see any of the other options making that throw. 

Zip it and it gets knocked away.

It was perfectly at the pylon where only 6'3" Nick Kupfer could get it. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

9 minutes ago, HoopsFan03 said:

It's not even just the fact that he can't throw the ball far, it's also that he can't put any zip on the ball when he needs to. There are throws that need to made on a line that he can't do. Every pass has to have some air under it and be a touch pass. 

I pointed it out when Feeney came in at the end of the SDSU game but his ball just looks different. It has some zip on it, it's a tight spiral, and he can make throws (including the deep ball) that Tommy cannot make. 

to all those that love sioux football and love to watch football go to a und practice (drive your fat ass if you like) and just see whose ball just looks different....has some zip on it...comes out in a tight spiral (easier to catch btw)...and can throw the deep ball.

mine was/is

jerry

trey

romfo/tommy

 

[The Sicatoka]

If only the throws were all that mattered in what the position demands.