gfhockey Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 5 minutes ago, UND1983 said: Heck even Rudy and Knauf just quit coaching once fired. Zero desire to keep going - what does that tell you about their year-round efforts? What are they doing now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, SooToo said: Paranoid rationalization? Is that what you read? Interesting interpretation. If you're not satisfied with a top 20 FCS finish and a playoff loss, you obviously have plenty of company. I think UND should be doing better, too. Frustrated at the loss of two coaches -- one after more than a dozen years, another after five -- to higher-paying and perceived higher status programs? Agree wholeheartedly, and hopefully it adds fuel to the fire to improve coaches' salaries here. Don't think Bubba can move the program further forward? You may be right, though I hardly think "greedy" is a fair description of the man. But when two coaches leaving after a 7-5 season and a playoff appearance is breathlessly sold as a "cratering" of the program, a dumpster fire, a sinking of the Titanic, it seems obvious rationality has left the building. Hyperbole is the mother's milk of sports message boards, to be sure, but if we ditched some of the hysterics it might be easier to have a realistic discussion on this forum on problems and solutions. “No one is arguing this isn't an important year for a whole bunch of reasons. But some of the suggestions are so far from being based in reality, starting to think half this board is made up of ndsu accounts just having fun at UND's expense.” - that would count as paranoia. There’s a lot of pure love on this board for UND. No need to try make sense of disputes with this idea. Secondly, should UND be satisfied with a top 20 finish every year? With no playoff wins or chance at a championship. That seems like asinine low expectations considering how top heavy the FCS is, but I guess this highlights the simple dilemma UND athletics faces; is top 15-20 good enough? Coaching departures signify the football program is currently stuck in the 15-20 range and won’t ascend, anyways. Put yourself in their shoes. You wouldn’t move to a lateral FCS position for a slight pay raise if you thought there would be upcoming success at UND, as that itself would lead to much bigger opportunities (FBS). Clearly that is not what those [formerly] within the inside thought. Bubba is soon to retire or be asked to “retire”, so the staff with greater aspirations have left. It’s not hard to decipher. The solution is fire Bubba (or have him “retire”) and hire a better leader, someone who can further build the UND football program to championship standards. Bubba can’t do that. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDSU grad Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 28 minutes ago, gfhockey said: What are they doing now Rudy’s AD at Lewis and Clark High School. Berthold ND. Has coached football there the last 4-5 years. His wife has a very good job in the Minot Public School system so I’m guessing that’s why he never pursued another college coaching job. Don’t know about Knauf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxFan100 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 At least we keep it interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXFAN97 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 13 hours ago, 90siouxfan said: Who exactly is this "good ol' boys" group that seems to keep Bubba working? KEM..... Mediocrity in any sport other than hockey is the gold standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90siouxfan Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said: KEM..... Mediocrity in any sport other than hockey is the golf standard. of course you would chime in with your wild azz bicycle know it all crap, it was mentioned that a local group putting and is keeping Bubba at the helm.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForks Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 hours ago, SooToo said: Paranoid rationalization? Is that what you read? Interesting interpretation. If you're not satisfied with a top 20 FCS finish and a playoff loss, you obviously have plenty of company. I think UND should be doing better, too. Frustrated at the loss of two coaches -- one after more than a dozen years, another after five -- to higher-paying and perceived higher status programs? Agree wholeheartedly, and hopefully it adds fuel to the fire to improve coaches' salaries here. Don't think Bubba can move the program further forward? You may be right, though I hardly think "greedy" is a fair description of the man. But when two coaches leaving after a 7-5 season and a playoff appearance is breathlessly sold as a "cratering" of the program, a dumpster fire, a sinking of the Titanic, it seems obvious rationality has left the building. Hyperbole is the mother's milk of sports message boards, to be sure, but if we ditched some of the hysterics it might be easier to have a realistic discussion on this forum on problems and solutions. Do you think it's possible that some of the ideas of dumpster fire, cratering, etc. are just relaying a message from those still within the program? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 7 hours ago, 90siouxfan said: of course you would chime in with your wild azz bicycle know it all crap, it was mentioned that a local group putting and is keeping Bubba at the helm.... KEM isn't local. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gundy1124 Posted January 31 Popular Post Share Posted January 31 Heading into last season there was a false narrative that our Jets (uncoverable) along with 5th year gun Slinger Tommy Gun along with the O-line whisperer Pawlak were going to be impossible to stop. (except for big games on the road of course, Boise, UNI, USD, SDSU) The O-line couldn't pass protect that well and maybe it was lack of talent but I tend to believe it was more on the OC's system, Danny 'new Jack hustler' Freund where if it wasn't a dink-n-dunk you needed a 5 second pocket. Center snaps sucked all season too, didn't help. So all the hype wasn't lived up to. The 2024 narrative is currently the Titanic hit by a Nuke. If, and it's an (IMPORTANT IF) all the current players stick around and pull together it probably isn't as bad as it seems. With an administration lacking it's up to the new OC and players sticking together to give this thing we call 2024-25 UND football a chance. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 17 hours ago, Longtime fan said: Should have never been hired Bubble 22-21 pre und in D2 Kalen 67-3 three champions one runner up in NAIA - young guy with “spark” and connection to the generation Easy call right ? 17 hours ago, Irish said: Kalen didn't have the old school group of Bubba supporters lobbying hard for him - they had influence with the administration. This disaster is mostly on them. Serious question: Which one of the two did their current boss at the time put his recommendation behind? Is it possible that had some sway with the hiring committee? I mean the same people railing on a decision made 10 years ago that we can't change also want Dale to give the pregame speech every week... 14 hours ago, zonadub said: Serious question… why wasn’t Pawlak offered the OC position at UND after Freund and then again Landry left? Does he have any interest in calling plays? He has zero experience at it. Not sure I ever heard he was interested. He spent 5 years as a grad assistant helping with the OL (2 at NIU, 3 at Iowa St) before UND hired him with nothing beyond being a GA. I think he's a hell of an OL coach, but his resume for an OC just isn't there. Maybe he'd be good, maybe not. But it is far from a guarantee that it would be successful. 14 hours ago, UND1983 said: Heck even Rudy and Knauf just quit coaching once fired. Zero desire to keep going - what does that tell you about their year-round efforts? One of the two was one of the worst hires UND has had in two decades as it relates to effort. One was content with not coaching college again even though there were lower level opportunities available, the other seemed to think he was much better of a coach than the results showed and doesn't seem like they were willing to put the work in to move back up. 13 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said: Put yourself in their shoes. You wouldn’t move to a lateral FCS position for a slight pay raise if you thought there would be upcoming success at UND, as that itself would lead to much bigger opportunities (FBS). Again, the situation in Fargo proves your narrative isn't black and white. Coaches move for a large range of reasons, and it isn't always clear that it is for the job they are taking. They are thinking of the job or two after that and what options might be there from new connections. NDSU's OC left for the exact same position at a worse school in a worse conference, halfway across the country where he has no connections, likely for less money and you can't tell me there wasn't guaranteed success in front of him at NDSU. So obviously there are coaches (outside of just UND) who see exactly what you described and move anyway. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux>Bison Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 16 hours ago, SiouxHawkGuy said: Fruend as HC and Pawlak as OC. Yeah that would have been nice. I’m more surprised neither ended up at NDSU…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 26 minutes ago, jdub27 said: Serious question: Which one of the two did their current boss at the time put his recommendation behind? Is it possible that had some sway with the hiring committee? I mean the same people railing on a decision made 10 years ago that we can't change also want Dale to give the pregame speech every week... Do we know? And was Dale all that popular (aka influential) at the time having left UND hangin' not long before. And who was on, and influenced, that hiring committee. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 29 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said: Do we know? And was Dale all that popular (aka influential) at the time having left UND hangin' not long before. And who was on, and influenced, that hiring committee. Doesn't @gfhockey know all of this? Why don't we ask him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 11 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: Doesn't @gfhockey know all of this? Why don't we ask him? He's too busy. Him and his fat stacks of oil patch cash are makin' it rain somewhere. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 38 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said: Do we know? And was Dale all that popular (aka influential) at the time having left UND hangin' not long before. And who was on, and influenced, that hiring committee. Lennon left in 2007, so he would not have overlapped with Faison, who didn't start until May, 2008. However, even without his ties, I assume both would use him as a reference. Despite how he left, I think Dale was still respected and whether it be officially or unofficially would have talked to those making the decisions on his thoughts. Not surprisingly, can't find anything definitive on who was on the search committee though I would have some guesses. Faison and Kelley made the final call and this article outlines how big of a cluster the hiring rules laws at the time made it to get an outside candidate: https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-football-und-hiring-process-is-a-unique-endeavor 14 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: Doesn't @gfhockey know all of this? Why don't we ask him? Easy enough to look back to show plenty of posts that claim him and the made up good ol' boys club were the ones who pushed for Bubba. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, gundy1124 said: Heading into last season there was a false narrative that our Jets (uncoverable) along with 5th year gun Slinger Tommy Gun along with the O-line whisperer Pawlak were going to be impossible to stop. (except for big games on the road of course, Boise, UNI, USD, SDSU) The O-line couldn't pass protect that well and maybe it was lack of talent but I tend to believe it was more on the OC's system, Danny 'new Jack hustler' Freund where if it wasn't a dink-n-dunk you needed a 5 second pocket. Center snaps sucked all season too, didn't help. So all the hype wasn't lived up to. The 2024 narrative is currently the Titanic hit by a Nuke. If, and it's an (IMPORTANT IF) all the current players stick around and pull together it probably isn't as bad as it seems. With an administration lacking it's up to the new OC and players sticking together to give this thing we call 2024-25 UND football a chance. You’re absolutely correct, as always. Let’s see what the Nuke-stricken Titantic can do in 2024. I just hope there are consequences if the Titanic does indeed sink. If it doesn’t sink, then we’ll all be onboard celebrating in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, jdub27 said: I mean the same people railing on a decision made 10 years ago that we can't change also want Dale to give the pregame speech every week... I mean, since going DI, UND football is 1-0 with Dale giving the pregame speech and it’s a big 1-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said: I mean, since going DI, UND football is 1-0 with Dale giving the pregame speech and it’s a big 1-0. No arguments from me on that. So hypothetically bad at recommending people for jobs, good at being a motivational speaker? Maybe UND can hire him as a consultant similar to what NDSU had a few years back, just with fewer illegal supplements being given to the players... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, jdub27 said: Again, the situation in Fargo proves your narrative isn't black and white. Coaches move for a large range of reasons, and it isn't always clear that it is for the job they are taking. They are thinking of the job or two after that and what options might be there from new connections. NDSU's OC left for the exact same position at a worse school in a worse conference, halfway across the country where he has no connections, likely for less money and you can't tell me there wasn't guaranteed success in front of him at NDSU. So obviously there are coaches (outside of just UND) who see exactly what you described and move anyway. I agree, not black and white, but UND football hasn’t faced an exodus like this before, at least not in the recent past. The mixed narrative explanation (that is, there are a lot of things in play for each coaching move) is really just a pathetic way to save face. In reality, if being honest with ourselves, we all know the writing is on the wall. Even folks who do not closely follow UND football or have any internal connections can see it. I do appreciate your (@jdub27) persistent loyalty to the current Bubba regime, though, although you’re likely to go down with the ship. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said: I’m more surprised neither ended up at NDSU…… To be fair, their new employers (SDSU and Montana) were both better than NDSU in 2023. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 14 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said: To be fair, their new employers (SDSU and Montana) were both better than NDSU in 2023. UND-FB-FAN is in the glasses ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kab Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 The good old boys club is always mentioned who the hell is in this club and how did they get there’ ? names please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 19 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said: UND-FB-FAN is in the glasses ... I wish I could comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, UND-FB-FAN said: I wish I could comprehend. You dared say it; the rest of us are stunned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90siouxfan Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said: KEM isn't local. no sh!t sherlock, that was my point.... a previous post stated a local group installed and keep bubba at the reigns... who is it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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