Does Fargo Help or Hurt Grand Forks?

[dakotadan]

No, because Thompson, Emerado, etc. Aren't physically connected to Grand Forks like West Fargo, Dilworth, et al. are connected to Fargo-Moorhead.

Hell, I'll even give you the Air Force base.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That last part was a joke. My point is that Grand Forks (or should I call it the Grand Cities, that would get some Fargonians going) and Fargo are extremely similar in size and lifestyle when compared to the rest of the country. Just because Fargo is slightly larger than GF doesn't mean it is some giant cultural center compared to GF. I'm not saying that Grand Forks is better than Fargo, it would just be nice if people from Fargo would get over the idea that Fargo is so amazing and GF is it's trash dump.

I grew up in a town of about 150 people. Does that mean that a town of 300 people is a metropolitan city since it is almost three times as big?

[dakotadan]

Now I am really in the mood for a classic Bison/Sioux football game!!!! I hope that they get the UND/NDSU rivalry going again real soon!!!

[FargoBison]

"I grew up in a town of about 150 people. Does that mean that a town of 300 people is a metropolitan city since it is almost three times as big?"Dakotaboy

I don't really hate GF but you can't really compare the city to Fargo. The FM metro area has three 4 year colleges and two 2 year colleges, GF metro has one 4 year and one tech college. Fargo metro has the regional shopping center and a mall, GF has a mall. Fargo has 2 major hospitals and GF has one. Fargo has way more hotels and restaraunts compared to GF. Fargo is know nationwide as having one of the lowest unemployment rates and stable economies in the country and the city is also known better throughtout the nation and region as well. Are you starting to understand the trend here, GF is a decent city but Fargo is the regional center and is a major city in this part of the country. Fargo is a more of a metro area while GF is still just a city. And 160,000 compared to 70,000 is a big difference in city size. It's like $150 isn't much greater than $350 dollars but $70k is much less than 160K. When I see Fargo I see cities like Omaha, Sioux falls, Des Moines, and Billings. And when I look at GF I see cities like Rapid City, Bismark, and St. Cloud. Fargo is in a different grouping of mid level cities, a group that is filled more with major regional cities.

[The Sicatoka]

For all of Fargo's growth over the last decade, the state population is up less than 1000 people. That tells me that Fargo's growth is really the emptying out of all of the small towns in ND. That tells me ND is on a collision course for being Fargo, GF, Bismarck, Minot, and some outposts in between.

star2city did the best job at explaining the similarities and differences of the two cities.

The thing that makes me the most sad about Fargo's growth is that Fargo has lost its innocence and may not realize it. The morning news out of Fargo doesn't seem to start lately without the phrases an armed robbery over night, a murder investigation, a car jacking (yes, in Fargo), or another big meth/drug bust.

The question about "Fargo versus Grand Forks" compared to "Fargo and Grand Forks" is best answered by (and I can't believe I'm going to say this because I've never voted for him), Senator Dorgan: By his Red River Valley* Research Corridor initiative he clearly believes that one pushes the other to be better and stronger so both (and the state) thrive. I'm pretty sure "Red River Valley" isn't by accident. You need the strengths of Fargo and Grand Forks, UND and NDSU to make ND survive and start to grow.

* That says "Red River Valley", not Fargo, not Grand Forks, but the thing that connects them together -- common interest: Fargo and Grand Forks, Grand Forks and Fargo.

[ScottM]

But it should be remembered, with all the bravado about Fargo

[GCWaters]

Sicatoka is on target here...much as the two cities and universities like to paint themselves as competitors, they need each other, and the state needs them to work together...Dorgan's got the right idea...eventually, that GF-Fargo-Wahpeton corridor will look a lot like the Logan-Salt Lake City-Provo corridor in Utah...while we all like to be partisan, a strong UND actually benefits NDSU, and vice-versa...

[Cratter]

That last part was a joke. My point is that Grand Forks (or should I call it the Grand Cities, that would get some Fargonians going) and Fargo are extremely similar in size and lifestyle when compared to the rest of the country. Just because Fargo is slightly larger than GF doesn't mean it is some giant cultural center compared to GF. I'm not saying that Grand Forks is better than Fargo, it would just be nice if people from Fargo would get over the idea that Fargo is so amazing and GF is it's trash dump.

I grew up in a town of about 150 people. Does that mean that a town of 300 people is a metropolitan city since it is almost three times as big?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said. I wrote a simple post and all of a sudden I get ripped on by "Fargo backers" for comparing GF to Fargo. Which is not my point. My point was does having one of the greatest Midwest towns located only 70 miles away help or hurt GF, because everything GF does gets compared to Fargo and/or the competition for people and businesses? Sorry Bison fans for comparing these two ENTIRELY different cities. No common interests whatsoever. Fargo is great, see FargoBisons posts about fargo having "regional shopping center" and a mall, while GF only has a mall, Fargo has 2 hospitals compared to one, GF is a dump and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. For all intensive purposes they are alot alike in the perspective of the world (thinking this far may be hard by some bison/fargo people). I guess one cannot compare a 70,000 to a 170,000 towns anymore. I can look up facts that state my point because NATIONAL databases often compared GF, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Bismarck, Billings, St. Cloud, Omaha, but how dare I even mention the two in the same sentence, unlike what some people think when they "think about other towns GF/St.cloud/rapid city does not equal Fargo/Sioux Falls". But it is not worth my time to look up facts. And then I get pointed out by bison fans that Fargo is not a Midsized town, WHO CARES??? It's all subjective. Why the constant nitpicking? I guess it was to much of some to try a higher order thinking. Try for a second to think my intent was NOT a GF vs Fargo thing.

DaveK hate is a strong word, I don't "hate," but it gets the point across better.

Grand Forks needs to quit being like Fargo? What does this mean? Grand Forks should stop trying to better itself and become big, add more jobs? Stop trying to get businesses to locate there, stop trying to get a waterpark? Bisonator your generalizations are fascinating.

I hope some get my point now, there is no arguement, no GF is like Fargo (and get ripped on by The Bisonator) it was if Fargo's growth helped or hurt GF? Oh wait that's what the title topic says.

Star2city makes good points. Fargo's growth overall helps Grand Forks etc. A lot of people travel to and from fargo/gf to work. Maybe they should build a high speed monorail linking the cities? It would help increase UND hockey game attendance..

[bigmrg74]

MONSTER...WHERE ARE YOU??  I'm trying...REALLY...I'm trying!!!

PS - GRAND VALLEY STATE is twice the opponent with HALF the attitude of our "former rivals"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I went to bed, and it kinda looks like you should have gone to bed too SMN.

[Godsmack]

I am one of those NoDak's who aggressively pursued a job/career in North Dakota after I graduated from college. Finding a decent job comensurate with my education was difficult if not impossible. I ended up taking a job out in Denver, CO simply to "get the experience" in hopes of having some professional work history and then take a stab at NoDak a few years down the road. Well, I recently pursued a position with a financial institution in Fargo and I am waiting to hear whether or not I get the job. The problem is, they made it clear that they cannot pay me what I am making right now in Denver. I am willing to take a pay cut in order to have the kind of lifestyle that only North Dakota (specifically, Grand Forks) has to offer, however, I also have a mortgage, car, etc. and I need to make sure that I don't "sell out". I realize the cost of living is lower in Fargo/GF than in Denver but I have done the research and I know exactly how much I will need to make in NoDak in order to break even.

Some observations of Fargo when I was there a month ago for my interview: Out by West Acres, it is looking a lot like Denver-lot's of chain restaurants, strip malls, and car lots. I also couldn't help noticing the rows of apartments and "spec" houses lined along I-29. These observations are similar (but on a smaller scale obviously) to Denver. While "big" is sometimes better in terms of opportunities, culture, progress, etc. along with it comes sprawl, crime, traffic congestion, etc.

So, I'm struggling here-I want to obviously be paid a fair salary for my knowledge, experience, education but I also want the benefits of smaller town living. It's a catch 22. All I can say is to those of you who currently live in GF or Fargo and have satisfying careers and good lifestyles, I am very envious of you and I hope to join you very soon. Despite my observations of Fargo, overall it is a very nice city and the people there are just as nice as they are back in my hometown of Grand Forks.

[Fighting Sioux #1]

I grew up in Grand Forks, moved to Minneapolis for 10 years, then moved back to Grand Forks. Fargo (or Grand Forks) will NEVER to a major city like Minneapolis...at least not in any of our life times. I think that is a good thing....that's why I moved back. It all comes down to WHAT you want in life.....schools, family, raising kids, and jobs.

And for people knowing about Fargo....most of that is from the movie FARGO....go figure!!

[DamStrait]

I am biased, not only because I am an alumnus of UND, but also because I prefer smaller cities to bigger ones. IMHO, Fargo is proud to consider itself the northwestern-most suburb of the twin cities and is hurt when anyone fails to respect them for it. Grand Forks is much more of a college town. I often get the feeling that Fargo feels 'SU is just a bother.

BTW, as towns go, Bismarck blows away both GF and Fargo.

[CoteauRinkRat]

BTW, as towns go, Bismarck blows away both GF and Fargo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

in what ways? certainly not quality of sports teams, facilities to watch them in, nightlife,

[PCM]

BTW, as towns go, Bismarck blows away both GF and Fargo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I lived in Bismarck for 15 years before moving to Grand Forks, and I wouldn't mind living there again. But I wouldn't say that Bismarck "blows away" Grand Forks. There are things about Grand Forks I'd really miss if I moved back to Bismarck.

[FargoBison]

No way, both GF and Fargo blow Bismark away. And Cratter I never ment to say GF is a dump, all I was saying was that Fargo is a little more of a major regional city. And to GF's credit it is growing and doing some very good things and is probably on the way to being a bigger and better city. Not to many cities GF's size can say they have a very good University, a pro quality sports arena(that houses one of the best college hockey teams), and some other great things like the Kings walks GC, and the Alerus. GF is not a dump, it actually has alot going for it. But it is still not as much as a regional hub of activity as Fargo is, it is as DamStrait said a college town.

[NDSU grad]

I grew up about 2 hours away from Bismarck but never spent a lot of time there. It seems everybody who has ever lived there absolutely loved it. Why? I'm pretty interested because I have a decent shot of landing a job when I'm done with graduate school. By the way, I grew up a 1/2 hour away from Minot and don't think I would ever consider moving back there. IMO, the worst "city" in ND.

[The Sicatoka]

By the way, I grew up a 1/2 hour away from Minot and don't think I would ever consider moving back there.  IMO, the worst "city" in ND.

I think everyone, except maybe Wilber, will agree.

[DamStrait]

in what ways? certainly not quality of sports teams, facilities to watch them in, nightlife,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bismarck is one of the cleanest towns of its size anywhere. Virtually all homes are really kept up well. Fargo and GF are not bad in this respect, but Bismarck is noticeably better.

The Missouri River (one of the great, if not the greatest, waterways of the world).

Hunting and fishing.

The weather (typically 10-15 degrees warmer in the winter and less humid in the summer).

[CoteauRinkRat]

I've lived in Bismarck, Fargo, and Grand Forks. All of them have their positives and negatives. When I retire, I wouldn't mind moving to Bismarck, but I would miss a lot of things in Fargo and Grand Forks, especially the sports scene. The Bobcats and the Wizards in Bismarck just wouldn't cut it.

[BigGreyAnt41]

I've lived in Bismarck, Fargo, and Grand Forks.  All of them have their positives and negatives.  When I retire, I wouldn't mind moving to Bismarck, but I would miss a lot of things in Fargo and Grand Forks, especially the sports scene.  The Bobcats and the Wizards in Bismarck just wouldn't cut it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you're the first one that's actually lived in both Fargo and Grand Forks.

How many other people in here arguing have also done that? I lived in Moorhead for 11 years, and now in Grand Forks for over 4.

I'm just getting a good laugh out of these arguments from people who have only lived in one of the two cites and have a very skewed perspective of what the other city is like.

[Cratter]

Star2City, I assume you have read this:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/8867365.htm

as it relates to what you have said before.

GF was there first option to locate their headquarters, but (I believe) because of GF's business sense it didn't happen, talk about a wasted opportunity.

The company says "He said Cirrus is approached weekly with unsolicited offers from communities hoping to lure the company away from Duluth."

Hopefully GF is pushing hard to get a Jet division if/when they do expand as Cirrus and UND have already partnered up.

[Smoggy]

This is so ridiculous. GF and Fargo are more alike than different. So Fargo has more people. Big whoop. I guess then they better have more hospitals, hotels, and restaurants. West Acres. Whoop dee doo. Is there a big tourist attraction in either city? Is their truly anything to go to besides bars and college sports? This is the biggest difference between a city and a BIG city.

I live in the desert just outside of LA (mountains cut us off). My city of Palmdale has about 125 - 150k. Lancaster (which is right next to us) has over 150k. We are not a big city. Just a bunch of homes sprawled across the desert. Oh wait, we have THREE malls. That must make us better. Oh and more hospitals. I'd hate to only have one to serve 300k.

But wait! I need to also factor in any towns/homes touching our city. So now we stretch across the desert and consume Victorville and Barstow. So now we're over 500k. It doesn't make us a big city. It doesn't make us better. It doesn't mean crap.

Some of you need to get out of Fargo and see some real BIG cities.

I really love where I come from (EGF), but was forced out job wise as well. We all know that teachers make soooo much. I hope to go back one day to raise a family in a city where my kids have a chance to play sports. Where I don't have to worry about them playing in the neighborhood. Where I don't have to walk through metal detectors just to get into school. Where I can go somewhere and not have it take a half hour of driving. I can always go to the Twin Citites for my cultural/tourist attractions on a weekend.

[EdtheFred]

GF and Fargo arent really anything alike. Fargo is far more urban and will really make that apparent in the next decade. They just seem to have reached the critical mass that makes it a boom town. Its highly unlikely that the population drain in ND is all going to Fargo and thats the sole reason for its growth. Fargo has people coming in from all over the world all the time. There was just a article on that in the fool em but the link is long gone.

My guess is that Bismark is getting as much or more influx from the small towns as Fargo and thats probably why we should get Mary into the NCC as soon as possible. Bismark will be the third largest city in the state after Fargo and West Fargo in a few short yrs.

[Cratter]

Here is what I was specifically talking about how Fargo's growth has helped Grand Forks.

http://www.sei-it.com/newsarticle.asp?News_UID=1

They hired 75 professionals and 200 more employees in a couple years. They stated that

According to SEI President and CEO John Jasper, Grand Forks provides the technology company with key business benefits. "Grand Forks shares the attributes that make our Fargo office so successful in delivering quality service -- a well-educated workforce, a strong work ethic, and a commitment to the highest level of customer care. In addition, being in Grand Forks will enable SEI to leverage resources from our Fargo operation and enhance our disaster recovery capabilities.

SEI chose Grand Forks following a comprehensive selection process, during which it worked closely with the Grand Forks Region Economic Development Corporation (EDC) and received additional support from the state of North Dakota. "We are extremely excited about SEI's decision to expand in the state and locate in Grand Forks. SEI is a tremendous company and partner. This is a great opportunity for both SEI and the entire Grand Forks region," said Mark Krauseneck, EDC President and CEO.

[Cratter]

Speaking of Bismarck, in the a recent issue of US News & World Report, Thomas Hayden wrote an article "Ways to Fix Your Life" and one of the topics was move to Bismarck.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:h5rR0...lient=firefox-a

[Fedorov]

Why does it matter how many people are in GF or Fargo? What exactly does that have to do with anything? It could mean more money for taxes, but it doesn't mean anything will be done. It could mean that there will be more things to do, but that depends on if people go out. So the talk about what cities should be counted seems pointless. If you are willing to drive a few miles to Moorhead, then what they have will benefit you. If you are willing to drive 10 minutes to GFAFB, then what they have can benefit you.

I agree that there are several things that are similar with Fargo and GF. However, there are several differences. I think Fargo is a lot better than GF. The only things better in GF is UND, hockey, and the cable company. However, a college does not make a town/city. I realize that this is a website about a university, and I think that is the only reason there are NDSU fans making comments about GF. However, I think you should realize that there are several UND students/fans that are saying Fargo is better too. I am sorry to tell the big GF fans, but most Fargo people don't really care about GF. Unless you are going to go to a hockey game or a concert, there is no reason to care what is going on in GF. Both cities suck for not having all local stations broadcasting in HD, although that is mainly the fault of Fargo since GF can only support one station.

I don't understand why people keep bringing up big cities during this comparison. It is obvious that neither city is a big city. It would be great if either city became a college town like Madison, minus half the hockey fans that are stupid. The good hockey fans there are also a good role model for UND hockey fans. Madison would be a great goal for either city over trying to be like Minneapolis.