Coach Jones?

[homer]

So Hak going to another Frozen four, Brewster going to the dance, Hardee going to the top of the BSC is all because of coaching while Jones and Muss struggled because of the nickname issue?

 

You give Jones and Muss/Schweigert the support/facilities hockey has and its a different deal.  Thats a poor comparison. 

[zonadub]

http://www.wday.com/content/summit-official-says-und-pushed-early-nickname-resolution-ad-faison-responds

 

My point was if it wasn't for the nickname we would have been SL members not BSC members, so that nickname issue isn't really an excuse on Jones' mediocre teams. But Douple messed it up when he wanted the nickname issue a done deal before the 11-30-10 deadline and that is where it was a blessing because UND got a chance at full membership in the BSC.

Are you sure that UND would not have been invited to the Big Sky and would have ended up in the Summit? We do not know what behind the scenes conference negotiations were being held. Doesn't Sioux Volley have a history of saying that UND would be invited to the Big Sky for years before it actually became public knowledge? Side note- conferences are set more by Presidents than ADs, so we also are not sure that Faison was the main force behind BSC affiliation.

[CMSioux]

And all this is after a win...yikes.

Some agendas never change. 

[niouxsiouxfan]

You give Jones and Muss/Schweigert the support/facilities hockey has and its a different deal. Thats a poor comparison.

That makes too much sense to make sense.

Basketball isn't on the same level as hockey? But Jones has everything at his disposal to get the kids that want everything. A recruiting trip thru the Ralph to sell a basketball player on going to UND is like handing him a bar of gold. How can they not want to come here. (Then they say, we have played games here)

[Cratter]

You give Jones and Muss/Schweigert the support/facilities hockey has and its a different deal.  Thats a poor comparison.

Plus its not that hard to make the Frozen Four. Theres only 60 teams of which 16 make the tournament.

If Hakstol had to win his conference to make the dance. UND would have been sitting at home. Instead he won two games in a row and was a hero. He finished the season going 3-2.

[darell1976]

You give Jones and Muss/Schweigert the support/facilities hockey has and its a different deal. Thats a poor comparison.

Jones has the same facilities as Roebuck/Brewster does and they went to the dance and NCC titles while Jones has those CIT appearances. #buttCIT

[darell1976]

Plus its not that hard to make the Frozen Four. Theres only 60 teams of which 16 make the tournament.

If Hakstol had to win his conference to make the dance. UND would have been sitting at home. Instead he won two games in a row and was a hero. He finished the season going 3-2.

Your first paragraph sounds a little Bisonville, check your colors before entering the REA.

[gfhockey]

Stay on topic ladies!

[darell1976]

Some agendas never change.

They could.

[darell1976]

Stay on topic ladies!

Oh sorry lets go back how Tom Izzo is equal to Brian Jones.

[jdub27]

Why do Jones teams seem to start so good (lead or winning at halftime) only to fall apart (lose) in the second half?

 

I was curious about this.  Looking at the 10 conference games this year, UND has held the lead at halftime 4 times.  They've outscored their opponents 5 times in the second half and scored the same amount as them opponent once.  If you were to break their record down by halves it would look like this (doesn't include overtimes, which they are 1-1 in)

 

1st half: 4-6

2nd half: 5-4-1

 

Over the 10 games, they've outscore they are a +3 in the first half (helped by being +24 the last two games) vs. a -26 in the second half (attributed to being -28 vs. EWU and going -13 last night).

 

Second half scores are 1-2-1 when leading at the half and 3-3 when losing at the half.

 

Again, conference games only and doesn't include the collapse against SDSU or letting Alabama St back in the game, but they did outscore Drake in the 2nd half.  Take the numbers for what they're worth, but your comment made me curious.

[Cratter]

Your first paragraph sounds a little Bisonville, check your colors before entering the REA.

Not sure why you hate jones but love hakstol?

I compare the coaches to the previous coaches of the same teams.

I dont want one fired because the Gophers or Bison are doing well.

The problem is theres little history to compare to for Jones. He just finished transitioning and plays tougher competition than the previous coaches.

Meanwhile, no coach has failed to win a championship at UND for this long of time than Hakstol.

(Besides this season) Jones teams have been improving. Hakstol hasnt been back to where he has been (championship game) for a decade (I think).

Again im not pro or anti jones. But pointing out he hasnt done enough to get fired (to this point in time). Like Hakstol

[darell1976]

Not sure why you hate jones but love hakstol?

I compare the coaches to the previous coaches of the same teams.

I dont want one fired because the Gophers or Bison are doing well.

The problem is theres little history to compare to for Jones. He just finished transitioning and plays tougher competition than the previous coaches.

Meanwhile, no coach has failed to win a championship at UND for this long of time than Hakstol.

(Besides this season) Jones teams have been improving. Hakstol hasnt been back to where he has been (championship game) for a decade (I think).

Again im not pro or anti jones. But pointing out he hasnt done enough to get fired (to this point in time). Like Hakstol

Hak has been at UND for 11 seasons, 279 wins, a .652 winning percentage, 2 conference regular season titles, 4 tournament titles, 1 NCAA title game appearance but....10 NCAA appearances (11 after this year) and 6 frozen fours, multiple signature wins, lots of OOC road wins. His worst season he went 10 games over .500 and he reached the NCAA title game that year (his first season). Now I ask you how can you hate Hak? He at least have given UND a shot at a NC in hockey. Will Jones give UND a shot at the dance or even win a game in the dance ( I know Bison reference)?  

 

And about Jones improving, not including this year UND went from 17-14 in the last season of the GWC to 16-17 in the BSC to a whopping.....17-17 last year. A one game improvement?!?

[ArtVandalay]

Straight hamster wheel.

[82SiouxGuy]

Wait, so was Jones successfull because he finished in the top 3 of the Big Sky his first 2 years and made post season tournaments the last 4 years, or did his teams struggle because of the nickname issue?!   

He had the players he had in part because of the nickname issue.  As an example, last year's senior class had some good physical talent but also had its share of challenges (losing focus and not always playing a team game for instance).  His teams had the success they did in part because of the quality of recruits, in part because of the coaching involved, in part because of the injuries, and because of several other factors that figured into the equation.  It is very possible that he could have had even higher quality recruits without the nickname issue.  He has been somewhat successful during the past several years, including the first 2 years of playing in the Big Sky.  Getting even better recruits (or not having those recruits deal with major injuries) could have allowed for even more success.  Coaches don't get fired when they finish in the top 3 during their first years of moving to a higher conference or when they miss the NCAA tournament by losing the championship game with 3 of their top 6 players missing the game because of injury.

[82SiouxGuy]

So Hak going to another Frozen four, Brewster going to the dance, Hardee going to the top of the BSC is all because of coaching while Jones and Muss struggled because of the nickname issue?

Each situation is completely different and only a fool would claim otherwise.  Hakstol is the coach of a program that has been one of the top programs in the country for many years.  They weren't looking for a conference that would take them, although they ended up leaving one of the top conferences to create another top conference.  The nickname issue had little effect on hockey. 

 

Women's basketball also has a long history of success at UND.  It is a program that can depend on recruiting the region for most of their players.  Brewster had a losing season his first year and a great season his second.  You claim he is more successful because they made "the dance".  The difference between the men and women making the dance last year was a single game.  Both played in their league championship games.  The women won and the men lost.  The men were also short handed, playing with only 3 of their top 6 players.  That isn't a reason to fire a coach.

 

Hardee is another case of being able to recruit most of his team from the region.  That makes it easier to recruit.  Hardee did a great job doing that.  But 1st place in the conference is still only 1 place better than 2nd, which is what the men's basketball team finished last year.  You don't get fired for finishing 2nd, especially when you work for a program that doesn't have a long history of success.

 

Obviously you have no clue that there are a lot of factors that figure into the success or failure of a team and a coach.  It is very rare when everything comes down to a single factor.  The nickname issue was a factor in recruiting, but it affected different sports to a different degree.  Dale Lennon publicly said that he saw it affecting football recruits.  We know that it was a minor factor at best for hockey.  There are 300+ men's basketball programs at the DI level, so anything that can negatively affect recruiting will be a problem because talented players have a lot of choices.  Why is it so hard for you to accept that fact?

[darell1976]

Each situation is completely different and only a fool would claim otherwise. Hakstol is the coach of a program that has been one of the top programs in the country for many years. They weren't looking for a conference that would take them, although they ended up leaving one of the top conferences to create another top conference. The nickname issue had little effect on hockey.

Women's basketball also has a long history of success at UND. It is a program that can depend on recruiting the region for most of their players. Brewster had a losing season his first year and a great season his second. You claim he is more successful because they made "the dance". The difference between the men and women making the dance last year was a single game. Both played in their league championship games. The women won and the men lost. The men were also short handed, playing with only 3 of their top 6 players. That isn't a reason to fire a coach.

Hardee is another case of being able to recruit most of his team from the region. That makes it easier to recruit. Hardee did a great job doing that. But 1st place in the conference is still only 1 place better than 2nd, which is what the men's basketball team finished last year. You don't get fired for finishing 2nd, especially when you work for a program that doesn't have a long history of success.

Obviously you have no clue that there are a lot of factors that figure into the success or failure of a team and a coach. It is very rare when everything comes down to a single factor. The nickname issue was a factor in recruiting, but it affected different sports to a different degree. Dale Lennon publicly said that he saw it affecting football recruits. We know that it was a minor factor at best for hockey. There are 300+ men's basketball programs at the DI level, so anything that can negatively affect recruiting will be a problem because talented players have a lot of choices. Why is it so hard for you to accept that fact?

Some people claim women's basketball is different from the men's team. So you ignore Brewster's team beating teams from the SEC while the men's team is losing to teams like Omaha, Cal Poly and Tx-PA. It's about coaching, Roebuck was a great coach and Brewster is following in his steps while Jones is just moving along the CIT train. Basketball is basketball whether it's mens or womens.

[Cratter]

Hak has been at UND for 11 seasons, 279 wins, a .652 winning percentage, 2 conference regular season titles, 4 tournament titles, 1 NCAA title game appearance but....10 NCAA appearances (11 after this year) and 6 frozen fours, multiple signature wins, lots of OOC road wins. His worst season he went 10 games over .500 and he reached the NCAA title game that year (his first season). Now I ask you how can you hate Hak? He at least have given UND a shot at a NC in hockey. Will Jones give UND a shot at the dance or even win a game in the dance ( I know Bison reference)?   And about Jones improving, not including this year UND went from 17-14 in the last season of the GWC to 16-17 in the BSC to a whopping.....17-17 last year. A one game improvement?!?

You lost me at "signature wins. Theres only one and he doesnt have it.

[darell1976]

You lost me at "signature wins. Theres only one and he doesnt have it.

Jones hit his signature win last season against NDSU.

[fightingsioux4life]

Theres the #buttbison. Ill be waiting for for 4 consecutive national football championships at UND cause buttbison did that too.

Mark Cuban and Bill Gates are billionaires. They did it means I can too!

So comparing two schools with very similar institutional profiles is now inappropriate?  Okay, whatever floats your boat.

 

PS: Your analogies were poor, please try harder next time.

[bincitysioux]

There are currently 6 former NCC schools that are now competing at Division I.  North Dakota is currently in its seventh season of DI.  Here is a comparison of how the former NCC schools fared through their first six full seasons.

 

1. NDSU:  105-70 (.600)
2. USD:      92-90 (.505)
3. UND:      93-98 (.487)
4. UNO:      39-53 (.424)---Only 3 seasons, they are still transitioning
5. SDSU:    60-119 (.335)
6. UNC:      50-125 (.286)

NDSU is the only school of the six that went to the NCAA tournament within the first 6 seasons.  I believe North Dakota is the only other one that has made to a conference tournament title game within the first 6 seasons. 

 

So when you look at it like that, it doesn't seem so unimpressive.

 

What is unimpressive, is that Coach Jones' career record against the other 5 former NCC schools is 13-30.

 

My biggest complaint about this program during the Jones era is the inconsistency and erratic nature of the teams.  His teams seem to always get better as the season progresses, that is a trend, and a good one.  But it shouldn't take 15 games to figure out the rotation every single season. 

 

This season is a perfect example of the inconsistent nature of the team.  The program went over two years between non-conference road wins, yet now all of the sudden in conference play, they can't win a game at home, yet have done quite well while on the road. 

 

Regarding "co-mingling" the non-conference and conference schedules, I think you can look at both objectively.  Of course it is tough at this level when you play so many money games.  I didn't expect a win against Utah this year, or Wisconsin last year.  But I also didn't expect to get run out of the gym by NDSU and Texas PanAm.  Jones is 17-39 in non-conference games against schools NOT from the Power 5 conferneces, Mountain West, Missouri Valley, West Coast, and Big East.  Personally, I think this program should be able to be competitive against WAC, Summit, Southland, and OVC schools, but for the most part we are not. 

 

And I am sorry, but IMO there is something other than the weather and temperature that is keeping this program from excelling to a higher level.  That and saying Jones is the Tom Izzo of the Big Sky, those were two statements that really had me rolling today!

[darell1976]

There are currently 6 former NCC schools that are now competing at Division I. North Dakota is currently in its seventh season of DI. Here is a comparison of how the former NCC schools fared through their first six full seasons.

• NDSU: 105-70 (.600)
• USD: 92-90 (.505)
• UND: 93-98 (.487)
• UNO: 39-53 (.424)---Only 3 seasons, they are still transitioning
• SDSU: 60-119 (.335)
• UNC: 50-125 (.286)

NDSU is the only school of the six that went to the NCAA tournament within the first 6 seasons. I believe North Dakota is the only other one that has made to a conference tournament title game within the first 6 seasons.

So when you look at it like that, it doesn't seem so unimpressive.

What is unimpressive, is that Coach Jones' career record against the other 5 former NCC schools is 13-30.

My biggest complaint about this program during the Jones era is the inconsistency and erratic nature of the teams. His teams seem to always get better as the season progresses, that is a trend, and a good one. But it shouldn't take 15 games to figure out the rotation every single season.

This season is a perfect example of the inconsistent nature of the team. The program went over two years between non-conference road wins, yet now all of the sudden in conference play, they can't win a game at home, yet have done quite well while on the road.

Regarding "co-mingling" the non-conference and conference schedules, I think you can look at both objectively. Of course it is tough at this level when you play so many money games. I didn't expect a win against Utah this year, or Wisconsin last year. But I also didn't expect to get run out of the gym by NDSU and Texas PanAm. Jones is 17-39 in non-conference games against schools NOT from the Power 5 conferneces, Mountain West, Missouri Valley, West Coast, and Big East. Personally, I think this program should be able to be competitive against WAC, Summit, Southland, and OVC schools, but for the most part we are not.

And I am sorry, but IMO there is something other than the weather and temperature that is keeping this program from excelling to a higher level. That and saying Jones is the Tom Izzo of the Big Sky, those were two statements that really had me rolling today!

I agree with this post!! Funny to see who is at the bottom. Boy football and basketball didn't go UNC any good moving up. At least basketball gave them a dance trip while they may want to drop football.

[Oxbow6]

Hoopster lives in Jones's basement and ArtVandalay is....Mussman!

[ArtVandalay]

Hoopster lives in Jones's basement and ArtVandalay is....Mussman!

Hey, you never know. Much better than the visual of Darrell in his mom's basement. "Mom! Meatloaf!"

[82SiouxGuy]

Some people claim women's basketball is different from the men's team. So you ignore Brewster's team beating teams from the SEC while the men's team is losing to teams like Omaha, Cal Poly and Tx-PA. It's about coaching, Roebuck was a great coach and Brewster is following in his steps while Jones is just moving along the CIT train. Basketball is basketball whether it's mens or womens.

How many DI men's basketball players come from North Dakota, South Dakota and rural Minnesota?  How many DI women's basketball players come from those same areas?  I don't know the numbers, but I am 100% sure that there are more on the women's side than on the men's side, probably a lot more.  That fact alone shows a major difference between men and women's college basketball.  It isn't all about the coaching, player talent is a major factor.  And as people keep claiming on the football forum, it is easier to recruit and keep good players locally than it is to bring them in from a distance.  The women's team has an advantage because they have more local players that can contribute to the success of the team.