Coach Jones?

[jdub27]

Ok cue, the pro Jones fans who want to keep him on so we can be at .500 and punch our ticket to the CIT which we were 1 loss from missing that tournament all together (losing to Sac St in the first round would have kept us out with a sub .500 record). NDSU is getting publicity not only for football but now for men's basketball and that will only get them better recruting choices, and what do we have to counter that? Can Jones go on the trail, look a recruit in the eye and tell them we can go to the Dance like NDSU. We can't beat Bowling Green, Cal Poly, and Nebraska Omaha. We gave SUU their only conference win of the year. Its going to be tough to get the good recruits (like you said wherever our recruting footprint is). I think Jones is a joke and I see this team going down in flames next season with a young team and poor coaching staff who can't stress teamwork.

Since you are so against Jones, please specifically explain what you think he should have done differently this year other than "It's his fault, fire him".

[darell1976]

Since you are so against Jones, please specifically explain what you think he should have done differently this year other than "It's his fault, fire him".

How about make this a team game not a Huff game. If he couldn't get that through his players heads 4 years ago it wasn't going to work this year and other fans have posted about the selfishness of this team, calling Huff out. And that's not just the players fault that's poor coaching. Rebounding, you aren't going to win many games being towards the bottom of DI in a key stat like rebounding. Learn to win on the road not just in conference play but all year. Tell me how NDSU can go beat Notre Dame and how UND can lose to one win SUU, transitioning UNO and 12 win Cal Poly? Answer..it starts with coaching. Now the seniors are gone and if Jones sticks with this philosophy or mentality he has look for UND to switch spots with SUU.

[darell1976]

Since you are so against Jones, please specifically explain what you think he should have done differently this year other than "It's his fault, fire him".

Since you are pro Jones what makes him so special UND should keep him? I understand if it's a contract thing and costs to much to buy him out but other than that there couldn't be much.

[UND92,96]

Since you are so against Jones, please specifically explain what you think he should have done differently this year other than "It's his fault, fire him".

I believe where the ball was dropped was the almost total failure to add high school recruits between the Huff-Anderson-Webb class, and the class coming in next year. I assume this was not part of a plan, but rather a reaction to not being able to sign the players they wanted, but it's hard to keep bringing in transfers year after year and expect it's going to work out. I have no idea how the staff failed to even take a flyer on a project big man in the past four years. Sometimes it works out (Wilmer).

[fightingsioux4life]

Ok cue, the pro Jones fans who want to keep him on so we can be at .500 and punch our ticket to the CIT which we were 1 loss from missing that tournament all together (losing to Sac St in the first round would have kept us out with a sub .500 record). NDSU is getting publicity not only for football but now for men's basketball and that will only get them better recruting choices, and what do we have to counter that? Can Jones go on the trail, look a recruit in the eye and tell them we can go to the Dance like NDSU. We can't beat Bowling Green, Cal Poly, and Nebraska Omaha. We gave SUU their only conference win of the year. Its going to be tough to get the good recruits (like you said wherever our recruting footprint is). I think Jones is a joke and I see this team going down in flames next season with a young team and poor coaching staff who can't stress teamwork.

Well said. I have pointed this inconvenient truth out to people over and over again and all I get for a response is #buttTransition, #buttPatience, #buttWeDon'tHaveThePlayers, #buttNotEverySchoolCanDoThat, #buttGeography and probably a couple of others I am just not thinking of at this point.

We have a choice; we can continue wallowing in mediocrity with MBB or we can demand better from Jones all the way through the lineup (including the freshmen). I know what I am choosing.

[jdub27]

How about make this a team game not a Huff game. If he couldn't get that through his players heads 4 years ago it wasn't going to work this year and other fans have posted about the selfishness of this team, calling Huff out. And that's not just the players fault that's poor coaching. Rebounding, you aren't going to win many games being towards the bottom of DI in a key stat like rebounding. Learn to win on the road not just in conference play but all year. Tell me how NDSU can go beat Notre Dame and how UND can lose to one win SUU, transitioning UNO and 12 win Cal Poly? Answer..it starts with coaching. Now the seniors are gone and if Jones sticks with this philosophy or mentality he has look for UND to switch spots with SUU.

Those are pretty vague answers. Pass more, rebound more, win on the road. Great insight. What philosophy or mentality is it that Jones has?

Oh, and Huff is currently the 11th most efficient player in the NCAA per Hollinger's PER. He wasn't perfect by any means but if you are going to use that as reasoning, then your arguments are worse than I thought. And I could care less about NDSU. Since Jones is such a bad coach, tell me how UND ran them out of the gym? Saul didn't care about an OOC road game?

Since you are pro Jones what makes him so special UND should keep him? I understand if it's a contract thing and costs to much to buy him out but other than that there couldn't be much.

I've never said I was pro-Jones. I'm just not running around with pitchforks and torches. Maybe you think differently, but calling for another person to lose their job is kind of a big deal.

In the conference races, Jones has finished at minimum where they have been picked his first two years in the Big Sky. Weber State, historically the best basketball team in the league, just went 6 years between conference tournament victories and a NCAA berth. UND doesn't get to win just because you or the fans think they deserve it. They actually have to play against other schools who are good and have high expectations as well.

Part of the problem was this class. They were great to watch and I appreciate everything they did for UND. But like most players that end up at mid-majors, they have flaws. They were talented but did not play well as a team. Think it is a coincidence that the second unit was competitive and gave the starters trouble during practices including beating them? Not sure if you paid attention, but Jones tried multiple things to get their attention over the past few years. They didn't start at Wisconsin, including Huff, who was playing in his home state in front of a ton of friends and family. Guys got the quick hook multiple times and spent an extended period of time on the bench (but then Jones got railed for playing some of the non-starters). But at some point, you have to roll the dice with your most talented players and hope they get it. Some times they did, some times they didn't. Some of the other guys who have graduated in recent years have been fundamentally sound with Jones as their coach. And this is not an excuse but a fact, the injuries over the last couple years have been borderline ridiculous for what a basketball team normally faces, including two of the guys who probably had the best fundamentals of any of them (Schuler and Brekke). And the NCAA can get bent for not giving Nash a waiver last season.

[Hawkster]

I was firmly in the Fire Jones camp back in about 2006 when they lost consitently to teams like Mayville State and Southwest Minnesota. I had been warming up to Jones in the last few years but now think it's time to pull the plug, especially after NDSU starting making this big run. We are light years behind them and we won't catch up doing things the way we have.

Seeing as how next year is probably going be a down year compared to this year, and this year sucked in my opinion, it's time for a change. Don't do like the football team and wait until the program is completely run into the ground. Fire Jones now and let the next guy start building the program up. Anyone who says keep Jones should remember how long we clung to Muss.

As to NDSU, I'll never support them or cheer for them, but I am mad as hell that they are pulling this off and we sit like like a bunch of fools watching our team do nothing.

[UNDBIZ]

Those are pretty vague answers. Pass more, rebound more, win on the road. Great insight. What philosophy or mentality is it that Jones has?

To be fair, Darrel isn't a professional coach who should be capable of analyzing a game. I'm sure other coaches could point out issues with our team (just as they could point out weaknesses in ANY team). The question you ask is one we'd all like to know, as it appears he doesn't have a team philosophy outside of "drive the basket, throw up a hail mary, and hope for a foul call." Having watched the games yesterday, with how the refs in most games were letting them play and not calling fouls, we would've been slaughtered had we made the tournament (side-note: it also benefitted ndsu, who really struggled against us when they weren't allowed to grab and hold).

I've never said I was pro-Jones. I'm just not running around with pitchforks and torches. Maybe you think differently, but calling for another person to lose their job is kind of a big deal.

In the conference races, Jones has finished at minimum where they have been picked his first two years in the Big Sky. Weber State, historically the best basketball team in the league, just went 6 years between conference tournament victories and a NCAA berth. UND doesn't get to win just because you or the fans think they deserve it. They actually have to play against other schools who are good and have high expectations as well.

Part of the problem was this class. Like most players that end up at mid-majors, they have flaws. They were talented but did not play well as a team. Think it is a coincidence that the second unit was competitive and gave the starters trouble during practices including beating them? Not sure if you paid attention, but Jones tried multiple things to get their attention over the past few years. They didn't start at Wisconsin, including Huff, who was playing in his home state in front of a ton of friends and family. Guys got the quick hook multiple times and spent an extended period of time on the bench (but then Jones got railed for playing some of the non-starters). But at some point, you have to roll the dice with your most talented players and hope they get it. Some times they did, some times they didn't. Some of the other guys who have graduated in recent years have been fundamentally sound with Jones was their coach. And this is not an excuse but a fact, the injuries over the last couple years have been borderline ridiculous for what a basketball team normally faces, including two of the guys who probably had the best fundamentals of any of them (Schuler and Brekke). And the NCAA can get bent for not giving Nash a waiver last season.

I agree with you on all of this.

[darell1976]

And I could care less about NDSU. Since Jones is such a bad coach, tell me how UND ran them out of the gym? Saul didn't care about an OOC road game.

First you should care a little what happens with NDSU since they are getting national attention and that does help with recruiting, losing to a transition team in the CIT doesn't.

And Saul doesn't care about an OOC road game? He must care a little to beat Notre Dame, NDSU has also beaten Wisconsin and Marquette since moving up, Jones has beaten UMKC and Longwood. But only because Jones cares and Saul doesn't. I would rather lose to NDSU every year if it meant being in the dance. If NDSU is Jones's signature win..this team has problems.

[Irish]

NDSU fans are cocksure of what NDSU can do ... to a fault.

UND fans are cocksure of what UND can not do ... to a fault. <-- UND fans need to work on this. End the negative waves.

NDSU fans are cocksure of what NDSU can do ... to a fault.

UND fans are cocksure of what UND can not do ... to a fault. <-- UND fans need to work on this. End the negative waves.

I have no problem with the recent NDSU successes except that I can't stand to listen to Bison fans. They are cocksure for a reason - their teams are getting it done. NDSU not negative? - Go check their boards when their football team took a temporary dip with Bohl at the helm. NDSU fans (especially football) are far more demanding of a winner than UND fans. How long would have Muss lasted in Bisonville? Let's face it - recent UND teams have been frustrating (women's basketball the exception). Do UND fans cheer blindly or insist that things get done? Maybe a happy medium. The difference in fan reactions is the difference in getting it done. Imagine UND fans if we won 3 hockey championships in a row. The cure for negativity is winning.

[darell1976]

I have no problem with the recent NDSU successes except that I can't stand to listen to Bison fans. They are cocksure for a reason - their teams are getting it done. NDSU not negative? - Go check their boards when their football team took a temporary dip with Bohl at the helm. NDSU fans (especially football) are far more demanding of a winner than UND fans. How long would have Muss lasted in Bisonville? Let's face it - recent UND teams have been frustrating (women's basketball the exception). Do UND fans cheer blindly or insist that things get done? Maybe a happy medium. The difference in fan reactions is the difference in getting it done. Imagine UND fans if we won 3 hockey championships in a row. The cure for negativity is winning.

Dead on!

[jdub27]

To be fair, Darrel isn't a professional coach who should be capable of analyzing a game. I'm sure other coaches could point out issues with our team (just as they could point out weaknesses in ANY team). The question you ask is one we'd all like to know, as it appears he doesn't have a team philosophy outside of "drive the basket, throw up a hail mary, and hope for a foul call." Having watched the games yesterday, with how the refs in most games were letting them play and not calling fouls, we would've been slaughtered had we made the tournament (side-note: it also benefitted ndsu, who really struggled against us when they weren't allowed to grab and hold).

Not asking for expert analysis or anything near that. I want to know what his opinion of why he thinks Jones needs to go. Looking backwards at his record and saying it isn't acceptable or not saying a word while the team is winning but as soon as they lose firing up the old "Fire Jones" thread is a pretty cowardly way to call for someone's job. Not sure I've seen any actual insight except for apparently Huff needs to pass more because some other people posted he was selfish.

First you should care a little what happens with NDSU since they are getting national attention and that does help with recruiting, losing to a transition team in the CIT doesn't.

And Saul doesn't care about an OOC road game? He must care a little to beat Notre Dame, NDSU has also beaten Wisconsin and Marquette since moving up, Jones has beaten UMKC and Longwood. But only because Jones cares and Saul doesn't. I would rather lose to NDSU every year if it meant being in the dance. If NDSU is Jones's signature win..this team has problems.

As far as I can tell, UND and NDSU have interest in one or maybe two similar players for the next two classes. UND doesn't go head to head with them all that much in basketball recruiting (and UND has won the two most recent times they have, Hooker and Shanks). What they have done this year has been good for their program, it will help them out. If they start making the dance multiple years in a row, then it will become a significant advantage.

My comment about Saul not caring about road OOC was a jab him allowing his team to lose to lowly UND on the road. A coach like him shouldn't allow that to happen.

[darell1976]

Not asking for expert analysis or anything near that. I want to know what his opinion of why he thinks Jones needs to go. Looking backwards at his record and saying it isn't acceptable or not saying a word while the team is winning but as soon as they lose firing up the old "Fire Jones" thread is a pretty cowardly way to call for someone's job. Not sure I've seen any actual insight except for apparently Huff needs to pass more because some other people posted he was selfish.

As far as I can tell, UND and NDSU have interest in one or maybe two similar players for the next two classes. UND doesn't go head to head with them all that much in basketball recruiting (and UND has won the two most recent times they have, Hooker and Shanks). What they have done this year has been good for their program, it will help them out. If they start making the dance multiple years in a row, then it will become a significant advantage.

My comment about Saul not caring about road OOC was a jab him allowing his team to lose to lowly UND on the road. A coach like him shouldn't allow that to happen.

Just like a coach shouldn't allow his team to lose to a conference team with 1 win all year?

[jdub27]

Just like a coach shouldn't allow his team to lose to a conference team with 1 win all year?

Exactly. Except you want one fired and are putting the other on a pedestal.

I noticed you ignored every other comment I had though. You still haven't said what philosophy or mentality that Jones has and needs to change. Question - How much of the SUU game that you keep harping on did you watch?

[darell1976]

Exactly. Except you want one fired and are putting the other on a pedestal.

I noticed you ignored every other comment I had though. You still haven't said what philosophy or mentality that Jones has and needs to change. Question - How much of the SUU game that you keep harping on did you watch?

#1 I am not a coach (in any sport)

#2 I told you what he needs to do from a fan standpoint, plus hearing others on this board stressing teamwork

#3 Are you related to Jones or something? That I can't have an opinion on him? So its okay to say Fire Muss but not Fire Jones?

Yes I put Saul on a pedistal, who wouldn't. He has taken his team to the dance twice in 6 years. TWICE in just SIX years. Do you see UND going to the dance even once in the next 4? Weber State is an obsticle, Montana could be an obsticle. Unless UND has home court during the playoffs I don't see them beating these two if they are hosting. At least NDSU has one advantage in their tournament over UND thats neutral court, unless the BSC Tournament is in Grand Forks. One more reason to put him on a pedistal, his team beat #5 Oklahoma, our team has never beaten a MAJOR or even has come close to beating a major, he did it twice this season.

[jdub27]

#1 I am not a coach (in any sport)

#2 I told you what he needs to do from a fan standpoint, plus hearing others on this board stressing teamwork

#3 Are you related to Jones or something? That I can't have an opinion on him? So its okay to say Fire Muss but not Fire Jones?

Yes I put Saul on a pedistal, who wouldn't. He has taken his team to the dance twice in 6 years. TWICE in just SIX years. Do you see UND going to the dance even once in the next 4? Weber State is an obsticle, Montana could be an obsticle. Unless UND has home court during the playoffs I don't see them beating these two if they are hosting. At least NDSU has one advantage in their tournament over UND thats neutral court, unless the BSC Tournament is in Grand Forks. One more reason to put him on a pedistal, his team beat #5 Oklahoma, our team has never beaten a MAJOR or even has come close to beating a major, he did it twice this season.

You are the most vocal about him being fired. I think its fair to ask why you feel so strongly that way. Because of that, I'm asking you specifically what is wrong with or how he can change his philosophy and mentality since that is what you keep pointing at being the problem. Looking backwards and jumping on a message board saying he should lose his job every time they lose (when its nowhere in the sphere of reality that he will) is kind of ridiculous. It is like clockwork though, quiet when they win, comments within 15 minutes of a loss. The only thing I've seen you say is that the team, especially Huff needs to pass more. Huff was a top 15 player in the nation in efficiency, the stats don't back your argument, despite Huff has his weaknesses.

I'm not a coach either, but I laid out what I thought the problems were with this team. And I have no relation to Jones. Have met him maybe once in passing and heard him talk multiple times, which is part of what I've used to form my opinion on him and the team. You're more than welcome to yours, but if you are going to be so vocal with it, be prepared to back it up. And I'm not a fan of "Fire xxx" threads, Muss included. You sure seem to be though, I think you've started the majority of them on this board. I understand voicing frustrations and discussing them but titling a thread like that just isn't something I agree with, to each their own though.

[nd1sufan]

Exactly. Except you want one fired and are putting the other on a pedestal.

I noticed you ignored every other comment I had though. You still haven't said what philosophy or mentality that Jones has and needs to change. Question - How much of the SUU game that you keep harping on did you watch?

Yeah Darell, Why harp on a game in March? Jones won the only game that matters back in November. Haven't you heard all of the national analysts commenting about how NDSU is only the 2nd best team in North Dakota?

[fightingsioux4life]

Yeah Darell, Why harp on a game in March? Jones won the only game that matters back in November. Haven't you heard all of the national analysts commenting about how NDSU is only the 2nd best team in North Dakota?

I hate to take your side on this, but you are 100% right.

[ArtVandalay]

A more accurate comparison for UND is probably USD. USD transitioned about the same time as UND with a similar scenario as us in that their rival transitioned first (SDSU). I would argue that Coach Jones has managed the transition better than USD despite USD having a very well respected coach amongst his peers.

The SUU game was unfortunates but that stuff just happens sometimes. A 2nd place finish in our 2nd year in The Big Sky is admirable. Coach Boots would have taken that in a heartbeat.

I also think it's interesting that people think the talent in this senior class is so great. What is that being based on? Just because they are seniors and a lot of em doesn't mean they are talented above and beyond everyone else in the conference. You could make a case that the talent in this team is middle of the conference talented.

[zonadub]

Not a Jones fan by any means and feel that UND's basketball team was inconsistent, at best, this season, but.........

UND was second in the Big Sky this year - without Brekke! Without Schuler for a good part of the year.

Second! That means UND finished ahead of Montana, Montana State, Northern Colorado, and yes, even SUU. Again, not a Jones fan, but he had a long uphill road this year.

Also, and do not extrapolate that I think hockey is taking the ability to win away from the rest of the programs, but he is recruiting basketball players to a school that acknowledges it is a hockey first school. These players are coming in knowing the darlings of the fan base are the hockey players (then probably the football team) and not the basketball players. That has to be a tough sell for the coaching staff.

There is not a snowball's chance in #€|| that he is going to be fired after finishing second in the Big Sky.

[jdub27]

Yeah Darell, Why harp on a game in March? Jones won the only game that matters back in November. Haven't you heard all of the national analysts commenting about how NDSU is only the 2nd best team in North Dakota?

I'm asking if he even watched it because he keeps bringing it up and was going to mention some of the coaching moves Jones made in the game. Not where I said anything about the UND/NDSU game in November having anything to do with that but I know that FU fans apparently need to continually feel validated by a school you've moved on from by inserting yourself into every conversation.

[darell1976]

I hate to take your side on this, but you are 100% right.

I agree too.

[UND1983]

I'm asking if he even watched it because he keeps bringing it up and was going to mention some of the coaching moves Jones made in the game. Not where I said anything about the UND/NDSU game in November having anything to do with that but I know that FU fans apparently need to continually feel validated by a school you've moved on from by inserting yourself into every conversation.

Because they are all basketball fans now and know alot about it. True fans.

[darell1976]

You are the most vocal about him being fired. I think its fair to ask why you feel so strongly that way. Because of that, I'm asking you specifically what is wrong with or how he can change his philosophy and mentality since that is what you keep pointing at being the problem. Looking backwards and jumping on a message board saying he should lose his job every time they lose (when its nowhere in the sphere of reality that he will) is kind of ridiculous. It is like clockwork though, quiet when they win, comments within 15 minutes of a loss. The only thing I've seen you say is that the team, especially Huff needs to pass more. Huff was a top 15 player in the nation in efficiency, the stats don't back your argument, despite Huff has his weaknesses.

I'm not a coach either, but I laid out what I thought the problems were with this team. And I have no relation to Jones. Have met him maybe once in passing and heard him talk multiple times, which is part of what I've used to form my opinion on him and the team. You're more than welcome to yours, but if you are going to be so vocal with it, be prepared to back it up. And I'm not a fan of "Fire xxx" threads, Muss included. You sure seem to be though, I think you've started the majority of them on this board. I understand voicing frustrations and discussing them but titling a thread like that just isn't something I agree with, to each their own though.

I started a fire Muss thread in 2011, and this one back in January. I didn't start Fire Hak, or any other coach at UND. Please tell me of all fanbases of all the sports that there isn't vocal fans who want to fire their coach if he/she doesn't perform.

[jdub27]

I started a fire Muss thread in 2011, and this one back in January. I didn't start Fire Hak, or any other coach at UND. Please tell me of all fanbases of all the sports that there isn't vocal fans who want to fire their coach if he/she doesn't perform.

Two Fire Muss threads, a Fire Jones thread and a Next Coach of UND Football thread that you started before conference play had even started this fall (Search feature is really easy to use). And like I said, I have no problem with you having an opinion, but if you are going to be that vocal, don't be offended or surprised when someone asks you to back it up.