Moo U diaries

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Ok...

So NDSU' talent pool has been slipping since the 60's? 

You're off the rails.

 

Never said that.

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Never said that.

So then you bringing up that you've been watching since the 60's was in reference to what point. Or was that you trying to compare Johnsons with me?

[Siouxperfan7]

29 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

He was from UND, loves UND, and views it as his dream job.  From that end, with his experience, yes it was a great hire.  Grand Slam, I don't know.  

Messingham is a life-long vagabond with zero ties to NDSU.  He could leave next year and nobody would be surprised.  He has had very little success in his coaching career that I can tell.  His head coaching experience is two years (same school as Rudolph was at) and they were terrible.  Just not seeing why he is so great.  

Because he is at NDSU.  Didn't you know that every recruit,current player, coach, trainer, water boy is the absolute best in the FCS!  Haven't you been beaten over the head with "facts" from Bison fans over the years about all this?! 

[Bison06]

4 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Because he is at NDSU.  Didn't you know that every recruit,current player, coach, trainer, water boy is the absolute best in the FCS!  Haven't you been beaten over the head with "facts" from Bison fans over the years about all this?! 

I've been around this board long enough to know there are some pretty smart people who post here regularly. Why are such smart people having a hard time understanding that this guys' resume would be cause for enthusiasm for any FCS school? As I've said, someone with his experience is almost never hired at an FCS school. How he will actually perform is something yet to be seen, but on paper it certainly looks like a nice hire. 

[UND-1]

Just now, Bison06 said:

I've been around this board long enough to know there are some pretty smart people who post here regularly. Why are such smart people having a hard time understanding that this guys' resume would be cause for enthusiasm for any FCS school? As I've said, someone with his experience is almost never hired at an FCS school. How he will actually perform is something yet to be seen, but on paper it certainly looks like a nice hire. 

He has been hired twice now at an FCS school.  

Answer this: have you actually looked at his resume and broken it down as to what his job was and what school he was at, etc?  He was quality control/recruiting at Indiana.  

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

1 hour ago, Tolna said:

Posting from a neutral stand point, can you explain to me how the talent pool is slipping? Like I've stated before I have ties to both school, have attended games at both schools in multiple sports. I just find it interesting that you say that? Curious your reasoning, is it an issue across the FCS? Or regionally?

Ok, to be fair, Posting from a neutral stand point. Going to try do this in a few statements. Both institutions are ND's best.

Both SD's and Montana beat NDSU in last 18 months in close games. JM physically beat NDSU. NDSU has won some close games. That's slipping from years just prior.

UND had a undeafeted conference record. Lost 3 close games one a playoff game, UND won some close games. That's improving from just years prior.

Going into playoffs, both schools were seeded, #1 & #7 repectfully, both a little overrated. I would say today NDSU is still a better team but the teams are moving in the direction of equality.

When all of above is understood, you'll see why. Here's what usually happens (seen it many times with the ND U's), the movement of the favorite team's talent in a down slide slips below the talent of the other team.

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, UND-1 said:

He has been hired twice now at an FCS school.  

Answer this: have you actually looked at his resume and broken it down as to what his job was and what school he was at, etc?  He was quality control/recruiting at Indiana.  

I know many, many people who are in coaching and that position move makes perfect sense to me. After being let go from a position it is not in a coaches best interest to ever take a year off and do nothing, just looks bad on the resume. Many coaches who are let go or the staff is let go have guys who will take literally whatever they can find so they don't have gaps on their resume. Had a friend who went from having a job in the NFL to volunteering at a high school for 3 months so he wouldn't have a gap on his resume. I don't  put much stock in that time at Indiana.

[jdub27]

20 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

I've been around this board long enough to know there are some pretty smart people who post here regularly. Why are such smart people having a hard time understanding that this guys' resume would be cause for enthusiasm for any FCS school? As I've said, someone with his experience is almost never hired at an FCS school. How he will actually perform is something yet to be seen, but on paper it certainly looks like a nice hire. 

It is basically semantics at this point. The issue most are taking here is with the comment that the hire is a "grand slam". If the original comment would have been something along the lines of "it was a good hire of a guy that has a lot of experience", I don't think there would have been much issue with it. I'll stand by my original comment, he was on Klieman's radar because of their past relationship, not because he has had a ton of success.

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

It is basically semantics at this point. The issue most are taking here is with the comment that the hire is a "grand slam". If the original comment would have been something along the lines of "it was a good hire of a guy that has a lot of experience", I don't think there would have been much issue with it. I'll stand by my original comment, he was on Klieman's radar because of their past relationship, not because he has had a ton of success.

Fair on all points. 

[Bison06]

I suppose it's human nature when two sides have opposing views, but it'll never cease to amaze me the level of hairsplitting a person will maneuver through to somehow draw the conclusion that the other party is in the most infinitesimally way incorrect when making their argument. 

"He's excellent" 

"I can't believe you would think he's excellent, he's clearly only fantastic"

"how could he be fantastic when it's obvious to everyone he is merely sensational"

Its exhausting. It's a good hire. Is "good" the proper adjective we can all agree on? 

[Tolna]

21 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Ok, to be fair, Posting from a neutral stand point. Going to try do this in a few statements. Both institutions are ND's best.

Both SD's and Montana beat NDSU in last 18 months in close games. JM physically beat NDSU. NDSU has won some close games. That's slipping from years just prior.

UND had a undeafeted conference record. Lost 3 close games one a playoff game, UND won some close games. That's improving from just years prior.

Going into playoffs, both schools were seeded, #1 & #7 repectfully, both a little overrated. I would say today NDSU is still a better team but the teams are moving in the direction of equality.

When all of above is understood, you'll see why. Here's what usually happens (seen it many times with the ND U's), the movement of the favorite team's talent in a down slide slips below the talent of the other team.

Totally understandable. I do not disagree with you.

The fact that NDSU was able to turn around and beat SDSU and Montana after losing to them shows me that coaching is big factor. Talent might not always be the determining factor. Game planning and execution are huge factors. I would argue that SDSU was the more talented team out of any of the dakota schools this year.

UND is definitely trending the right way. Will be attending a couple games this next season with some friends. Many of them used to just get GA tickets are now purchasing season tickets. Chatted with Bubba at a hockey game two weeks ago. Complimented him on how he is running UND's program and have enjoyed the times I have been able to watch.

I just don't see how you can say NDSU's talent pool is falling off after one year that they didn't win the title? None of the other dakota schools advanced further than them, until that happens, I would say the talent pool is stable. JMU was the best team in the nation this year.

[UNDvince97-01]

7 hours ago, Bison Dan said:

Just prepare for another beat down. 

 

 

 

[bison73]

3 hours ago, UNDColorado said:

I have see you guys run the wheel route out of the backfield very effectively. That play can be a killer and it has been in the past for you.

Yep but we do it very sparingly that why it works. We very rarely have a back out in the flat or as a safety valve or swing pass.

[Sioux94]

1 minute ago, bison73 said:

Yep but we do it very sparingly that why it works. We very rarely have a back out in the flat or as a safety valve or swing pass.

That play is a guaranteed 25 yard pick up at least once a game.....it's like clock work. 

[UND-1]

1 hour ago, Bison06 said:

I suppose it's human nature when two sides have opposing views, but it'll never cease to amaze me the level of hairsplitting a person will maneuver through to somehow draw the conclusion that the other party is in the most infinitesimally way incorrect when making their argument. 

"He's excellent" 

"I can't believe you would think he's excellent, he's clearly only fantastic"

"how could he be fantastic when it's obvious to everyone he is merely sensational"

Its exhausting. It's a good hire. Is "good" the proper adjective we can all agree on? 

Why is he 'good'?   

[Sioux27]

2 hours ago, Bison06 said:

I know many, many people who are in coaching and that position move makes perfect sense to me. After being let go from a position it is not in a coaches best interest to ever take a year off and do nothing, just looks bad on the resume. Many coaches who are let go or the staff is let go have guys who will take literally whatever they can find so they don't have gaps on their resume. Had a friend who went from having a job in the NFL to volunteering at a high school for 3 months so he wouldn't have a gap on his resume. I don't  put much stock in that time at Indiana.

Many? or Many, Many?  It really helps the credibility. 

[Sioux27]

2 hours ago, Bison06 said:

I suppose it's human nature when two sides have opposing views, but it'll never cease to amaze me the level of hairsplitting a person will maneuver through to somehow draw the conclusion that the other party is in the most infinitesimally way incorrect when making their argument. 

"He's excellent" 

"I can't believe you would think he's excellent, he's clearly only fantastic"

"how could he be fantastic when it's obvious to everyone he is merely sensational"

Its exhausting. It's a good hire. Is "good" the proper adjective we can all agree on? 

Um.....what?  The Billy Madison response is appropriate here.

[Bison06]

24 minutes ago, Sioux27 said:

Many? or Many, Many?  It really helps the credibility. 

You're obviously not in communication. Pops in voice tone, pauses and repeats are utilized to emphasize importance when communicating

thanks for your concern though.

[Bison06]

23 minutes ago, Sioux27 said:

Um.....what?  The Billy Madison response is appropriate here.

I know words are hard, but there is a thing called a dictionary that would make life less confusing for you.

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 hours ago, Bison06 said:

If this was a UND hire you'd be saying exactly what Bison fans are saying. Great to have a coach with such vast and varied experience on the staff and been a coordinator at a P5 school. When it's your school we see what's good about a hire, when it's the other guys school we see what's bad about the hire. And the world goes round and round.

It is not a grand slam hire nor is 2017 offensive success for NDSU guaranteed. This is definitely a wait-and-see type of situation. It has the potential to be great for NDSU or be an issue. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 hours ago, Bison06 said:

You mean like when bubba was hired? His experience was less impressive and many still considered the hire a "grand slam". As I said, when it's the home team every decision is viewed for its silver lining. 

Obviously his ties to UND change the equation, but many on this board were optimistic because he had been at UMD and SIU.

Key difference: Bubba has not been fired/relieved of his duties. NDSU's new OC got the boot from Iowa State due to lack of effective performance. Considering that, situations are a bit different. We can agree to disagree on the quality of Iowa State football and how coaching/playing there immediately makes one more valued. Chris Mussman played at Iowa State and look how that turned out for UND during his HC tenure.

Again, let's wait and see. If nothing else, this change at OC adds intrigue and something else to follow. 

[Bison06]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Key difference: Bubba had not been fired/relieved of his duties. NDSU's new OC got the boot from Iowa State due to lack of effective performance. Considering that, I'm happy he is at NDSU. Should be fun come 2019 and beyond ...

Can't fault you for your enthusiasm in your program, but don't for a second think that NDSU is done with the run they are on. Next year will be another deep playoff run.

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Can't fault you for your enthusiasm in your program, but don't for a second think that NDSU is done with the run they are on. Next year will be another deep playoff run.

NDSU certainly will have some good players for 2017, but whether or not they can put it all together remains to be seen. 

I edited my previous post to be more politically correct.

Enjoy.

 

[Bison06]

7 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Key difference: Bubba had not been fired/relieved of his duties. NDSU's new OC got the boot from Iowa State due to lack of effective performance. Considering that, I'm happy he is at NDSU. Should be fun come 2019 and beyond ...

Also, good coaches get fired all the time. Too many variables in the world of coaching to assume that someone being fired means he was even the problem. I don't know the details of his Iowa state firing, just speaking generally. After all, Bill belicheck was once fired by the browns.

[Bison06]

11 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Key difference: Bubba has not been fired/relieved of his duties. NDSU's new OC got the boot from Iowa State due to lack of effective performance. Considering that, situations are a bit different. We can agree to disagree on the quality of Iowa State football and how coaching/playing there immediately makes one more valued. Chris Mussman played at Iowa State and look how that turned out for UND during his HC tenure.

Again, let's wait and see. If nothing else, this change at OC adds intrigue and something else to follow. 

Playing somewhere and coaching somewhere are very different things. Yes, not all P5 teams are created equally, but they have the budget to get higher quality coaches so usually earning the position of coaching at a P5 school means you are a higher quality coach. Not always of course, but again speaking generally it's true.