The Great Debate: CHL vs NCAA

[KTF]

47 minutes ago, brianvf said:

This all sounds eerily similar to the NCAA vs NTDP exhibition games that you were saying college programs "give it their best" for despite sitting top players and playing backup goalies. 

Fact: Yet despite Schmaltz being on a "lower" line, he still tied the all-powerful Dvorak in points.
Fact: Tkachuk's point total had more to do with Matthews than anything. 

Spin it how you want man, but UND still beats London in a 7 game series.  Fact. 

Those two games were in essence try out games for the Canada hopefuls while the CIS finally got to play on a big stage with a ton of scouts watching...the games meant everything to both sides playing, were hard fought and intense and of course proved that the CIS was in no way superior to what some posters on HFBoards thought...after all the college boys were flat out dominated in the second game

 

Tkachuk and Mathews complimented each other quite well...who knows, maybe of Boeser was as good as Tkachuk instead of his inferior he might of got to play more with Mathews..

Your last point was merely a biased opinion...I'm still waiting for you all to explain the mighty NoDak depth over London..

[KTF]

22 hours ago, tho0505 said:

I disagree completely. It was a great game, but after the top line and a half of each team there was a huge talent gap.  Back and forth setting up plays and easy breakouts and transitions.   Again, comparing the two leagues is apples to oranges; it just doesn't work.  

Again I will say I saw much more time and space in the NoDak - Quinn game than the Memorial Cup game...on NoDak's first goal, 2 on 1 numbers down in the slot, where is the Q Defense?? Gersich all alone was allowed two quick shots, his second goes in. On the 2nd goal, horrible goal tending from Garteig , No. 6 Toews from Q utterly misses his check and lets Boeser easily pass him by for the goal after a misplay from Garteig. 3rd goal, absolute confusion from Q D, Boeser easily takes puck away and passes it to an unmolested wide open Caggiula for the goal. 4th goal, Boeser on a one on one battle going to the net  spins around and passes to yet again a streaking and wide open Caggiula for the goal. 5th goal. after Garteig gives up a fat juicy rebound, Poganski all alone shoots it in.

 

 

[Cratter]

Q would dominate London.

[siouxforce19]

3 hours ago, KTF said:

Hmmm, the best CIS players squared off against a portion of the better CHL players in a pre exhibtion WJC tune up for the Canadian World Junior team. Now keep in mind that the best Canadian CHLers sat out the games because their spot on the team was assured and that many top American, Russian, Swede and Czech CHLers were of course not there. The CIS all star team was of course several years older and in fact many of them were ex CHL players and were from teams like UNB, Alberta and the like that generally do well against NCAA competition. So the best from the CIS faced off against the not so best from the CHL and according to these so called sages from HFBoards, the CIS should of mopped the floor with the much younger and smaller CHL players right.? Well not exactly, the first game ended in a tie but the CIS did win in a shoot out. The CHL  players then blew the door off the older, supposedly stronger and more experienced CIS players 5-0 the next game.

So much for the CIS being better...imagine if the CHL actually had all their best players playing...

Sorry, I've been MIA recently.

WHO THE HELL IS THIS GUY? LOL 

[KTF]

50 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Q would dominate London.

Wow, what a well thought out response..don't even know how to reply to such deep insight and analysis....

 

Well something tells me I overstayed my welcome here. I understand that in this day and age having a countervailing position to the general (group think) consensus is quite frowned upon on American college campuses. I would hate to get in trouble with the though police down there, especially during my annual fall trip to the Big House to see Michigan play.

To yzerman 19, you seem like a well informed poster who is not quite so provincial minded, even though I'm sure you feel NoDak is better, perhaps you could continue to educate some of these college fans about the merits of the CHL.

[brianvf]

1 hour ago, KTF said:

Your last point was merely a biased opinion...

Haha, and there it is.
Everything you've posted is a biased opinion as well. 
As I said earlier, you'll never convince us that the CHL is superior, and it seems we'll never convince you.  So there you go.

[Benny Baker]

3 hours ago, KTF said:

Dvorak earned PP time, Schmaltz did not..Marner did much better than Boeser and had the same PPG as Schmaltz...

UND is older but I've proven that age isn't anything and for the upteenth time show me this better depth!

Player and (age): Tkachuck (18); Dvorak (19); Boeser (18); and Schmaltz (19), at the time of the WJC.

Juxtaposing the exact same aged players against one another in an 18-20 year-old tournament doesn't prove anything about age.  An 18-20 year-old tournament is not a useful tool to compare the CHL's 16-20 year-old players and the NCAA's 18-24 year old players.

[Cratter]

2 hours ago, KTF said:

Wow, what a well thought out response..don't even know how to reply to such deep insight and analysis....

Big Macs are better than Whoppers because I have a bunch of facts to prove it.

It sells more.

It has two pattys.

It has special sauce.

You don't seem to see how you are trying to argue opinions is stupid and pointless and there really isn't any "deep insight and analysis" you can do in hypothetical situations.

What you love it to try and rile up people for how much you think the CHL is better than the NCAA. The truth is the CHL is on the decline for the last decade while college hockey has prospered.

You'd think the CHL, the best players in the hockey world right before go straight to Stanley Cup Playoff MVPs, would be a bigger deal in a country who's #1 sport is hockey. The CHL should be sending way more hockey players to the NHL than it does. 

*

[UNDBIZ]

3 hours ago, KTF said:

Wow, what a well thought out response..don't even know how to reply to such deep insight and analysis....

 

Well something tells me I overstayed my welcome here. I understand that in this day and age having a countervailing position to the general (group think) consensus is quite frowned upon on American college campuses. I would hate to get in trouble with the though police down there, especially during my annual fall trip to the Big House to see Michigan play.

To yzerman 19, you seem like a well informed poster who is not quite so provincial minded, even though I'm sure you feel NoDak is better, perhaps you could continue to educate some of these college fans about the merits of the CHL.

CHL is garbage. Adios. 

[scpa0305]

11 hours ago, Cratter said:

Q would dominate London.

Imagine last year's SCSU team playing an OHL team...with all that time and space.  It would get ugly.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

London wouldn't get home ice in the NCHC playoffs... just saying

[The Sicatoka]

"I am an expert witness, because I say I am." -- the stranger who appeared in a cloud of smoke

[sprig]

17 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

"I am an expert witness, because I say I am." -- the stranger who appeared in a cloud of smoke

And according to him,  he's proven all his beliefs. 

[joeyjr]

14 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Whatever happened to Tambolini? Didn't he dominate here and then go to mj and get dominated by the superior the skill being played by 1st rounder after 1st rounder on a nightly basis?

What? He didn't do anything HERE, then went to the WHL and tore it up in major juniors. Also, did alright in the AHL, I believe. I'm not sure if your post is sarcasm . . .

[Wilbur]

Had to post a thought:

Not doubting the talent in the CHL, but it's a men vs. boys argument.  I watched the memorial cup (great hockey), but that time and space doesn't exist in college hockey or the NHL.  Can't imagine what CBS does with that type of roaming grounds.  

Send London to Lawson for a weekend of zero space and ice bags, then get back to me. 

[geaux_sioux]

How about a pre season CHL vs NCAA tournament? 8 teams. 4 from each league. NHL refs. I think it would be good fun.

[yzerman19]

On 6/2/2016 at 1:53 PM, KTF said:

CHL players are not paid to play. They receive a monthly stipend to offset living expenses in much the same way college athletes now receive cost of attendance subsidies.

Sorry for high jacking your thread, but it always made me laugh the way many college fans, who for the most part are completely unfamiliar with the level of play in the CHL dismiss the league as being second rate.

In terms of development, it is hard to argue against the CHL route but there are many players who would be better served going through the college route. The fact is, that if you are an elite prospect that is almost guaranteed to have a NHL career then the CHL is the preferred option, now that doesn't mean its the only option however. If you are a border line NHL prospect then the NCAA offers you more advantages, with the greatest being the time it allows you to develop. You can enter college at 18, 19 or even 20 and give yourself a full four years to strengthen your body and hone your skills and then hit the pros as a very mature and well rounded 23-24 year old.

I happen to know more than a few agents from various agencies and that is generally the advise they give. The high end prospects are steered toward the CHL while the rest are told the merits of the D-1 route. Now of course many elite prospects will take the NCAA way while many marginal ones will go on the CHL path but by and large that is the way it is increasingly playing out over the past decade or so.

I don't disagree with you.  I think of the two best NHL prospects that UND has had in the last 15 years:  Parise and Toews.  Both had major advisors, and both were sure fire first rounders.  They both had skill and compete coming out their ears...what they needed was time to build mens' bodies and prepare.  

[yzerman19]

On 6/2/2016 at 1:58 PM, KTF said:

 

I understand that, and I've already been over the line combinations, my point was and remains (and is quite valid) that London's top line would have been among if not the outright best line in all of NCAA hockey.

In terms of talent level, you are absolutely correct. However, it is difficult to make comparisons on entire teams and how they would stack up.  UND's top d-pairing last year could hold there own in the AHL...

I completely agree that top CHL teams' top lines would be among (if not the) best in NCAA.  Basically, the best lines in top NCAA and top CHL programs are loaded with guys who have a 50/50 shot or better of playing in the NHL.

Would London's top guys have full rides and be lighting up the NCAA (same with Brandon and Seattle- I watch WHL), yep.  Would Boeser, Schmaltz and Jewels or the Michigan line or the Pacific Rim line light up teams in the CHL, yep.  

[scpa0305]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/from-the-branches/2016/8/23/12603018/from-the-branches-london-knights-accused-of-fraud-whats-that-word-for-enjoying-misery

Interesting.

 

[tho0505]

7 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/from-the-branches/2016/8/23/12603018/from-the-branches-london-knights-accused-of-fraud-whats-that-word-for-enjoying-misery

Interesting.

 

I thought for sure it was another recruitment scandal...yawn.   Interesting nevertheless. 

[scpa0305]

1 minute ago, tho0505 said:

I thought for sure it was another recruitment scandal...yawn.   Interesting nevertheless. 

Me too