2017 UND Recruiting

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said:

Seguin hudl:  http://www.hudl.com/video/3/2196506/5721d4b09a91677e74a6da61

Twitchy. I like it. Seems to have a bit of an edge too.

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

Brings us to 3 DL, 3 LB, 1 OL, 1 QB, & 1 RB/WR in the 2017 class.

This offense is still begging for more talent -- at least one more player at each offensive unit (OL, TE/FB, RB, QB, WR). 

[nodakhoops]

7 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

This offense is still begging for more talent -- at least one more player at each offensive unit (OL, TE/FB, RB, QB, WR). 

I'd take 4-5 OL in this class total. Biggest area of need for depth right now. Going to have a lot of guys graduate after 2017 and need guys ready to go for 18. That will be this years redshirts and this recruiting class. Huge need and 1-2 won't cut it. Should have at minimum 4 OL in every class regardless of depth but right now it's needed more.

[siouxfan512]

1 hour ago, nodakhoops said:

I'd take 4-5 OL in this class total. Biggest area of need for depth right now. Going to have a lot of guys graduate after 2017 and need guys ready to go for 18. That will be this years redshirts and this recruiting class. Huge need and 1-2 won't cut it. Should have at minimum 4 OL in every class regardless of depth but right now it's needed more.

Can't really argue with this. More players, more depth, more competition. I of course don't know the scholarship situation, and maybe you offer more PWO, especially to some of these big Nodak farm kids that you can mold and develop. While we certainly need to keep some spots open for some speed players (WR), and I know Bubba will always keep a focus on defense, we definitely need to build up the offensive line. He did a nice job in getting Merz and Grady, its just unfortunate that they didn't stick around, they could have made all the difference in our line this season.

The hard part, as many have stated, is OL is a position where once recruited, you may not see the players for another few years. Hopefully our current players and current recruits will stand up to the task over the next season or two, while we continue to build that position.

[geaux_sioux]

This OL depth problem was caused when Mussman had a class with 1 OL in it and he was an average D2 quality OL who transferred when Mussman was fired. The trickle down takes a couple years but here we are. That left us with zero margin for attrition. When the class with Grady was announced it was stacked with really really good OL. Williams never showed. Merz had his injury situation. Grady had his situation. Now we sit here with razor thin depth at OT. So in other words, yes, we need a lot of hogs every single year because !@#$ happens.

[UND-1]

23 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

This OL depth problem was caused when Mussman had a class with 1 OL in it and he was an average D2 quality OL who transferred when Mussman was fired. The trickle down takes a couple years but here we are. That left us with zero margin for attrition. When the class with Grady was announced it was stacked with really really good OL. Williams never showed. Merz had his injury situation. Grady had his situation. Now we sit here with razor thin depth at OT. So in other words, yes, we need a lot of hogs every single year because !@#$ happens.

Williams showed, he was just not a good football player and left after spring IIRC.  He was a late addition to the class anyway.  

Merz and Grady are the two that really hurt.  

Camy (juco) was a bust.

Blair is here and doing well but will take at least 2-3 years to be ready since he was 240 out of HS.

Francis had a injury issue and couldn't put on weight so he was moved to fullback.  That hurt because he would have been a very good center or guard.

Brendan Slaight (juco) flaked out and never showed up.  That hurt.

Like you said, this year's senior class only signed one OL (Isenberger) and he transferred.  

Helgren, Tobin, Mortel and Nguon need to hit.  Period.  They all look good and have done well thus far.

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 hours ago, nodakhoops said:

I'd take 4-5 OL in this class total. Biggest area of need for depth right now. Going to have a lot of guys graduate after 2017 and need guys ready to go for 18. That will be this years redshirts and this recruiting class. Huge need and 1-2 won't cut it. Should have at minimum 4 OL in every class regardless of depth but right now it's needed more.

4 to 5 offensive linemen is a fine number, as long as UND can also get in 4 to 5 offensive skill players also (QB, RB,WR,TE). The entire offense needs more talent, in general; that is offensive linemen with good feet and big play ability from the skill guys.

Given how UND wants to play football, and also considering the type of recruits in the region, UND will continue to build depth on defense and I think they have to. That's how Bubba and Schmidt are ultimately going to win games here at UND, so its important to not forget that. 

[UND-1]

8 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

4 to 5 offensive linemen is a fine number, as long as UND can also get in 4 to 5 offensive skill players also (QB, RB,WR,TE). The entire offense needs more talent, in general; that is offensive linemen with good feet and big play ability from the skill guys.

Given how UND wants to play football, and also considering the type of recruits in the region, UND will continue to build depth on defense and I think they have to. That's how Bubba and Schmidt are ultimately going to win games here at UND, so its important to not forget that. 

Better offensive lineman make better skill players.  It obviously would be awesome to just recruit some out of HS but guys tend to be more open down field when we are running all over teams or our QB can sit there for 4 seconds and let the route develop.  

[Hambone]

55 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Williams showed, he was just not a good football player and left after spring IIRC.  He was a late addition to the class anyway.  

Merz and Grady are the two that really hurt.  

Camy (juco) was a bust.

Blair is here and doing well but will take at least 2-3 years to be ready since he was 240 out of HS.

Francis had a injury issue and couldn't put on weight so he was moved to fullback.  That hurt because he would have been a very good center or guard.

Brendan Slaight (juco) flaked out and never showed up.  That hurt.

Like you said, this year's senior class only signed one OL (Isenberger) and he transferred.  

Helgren, Tobin, Mortel and Nguon need to hit.  Period.  They all look good and have done well thus far.

Williams was the Canadian (and one of our early verbals) who wasn't able to get through the NCAA clearinghouse, and ended up at the U of Manitoba prior to ever setting foot on campus.  I think he would have been a good one - even though a different level I believe he started as a true freshmen last year for Manitoba at RT (I know he's starting this year).  

[UND-FB-FAN]

15 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Better offensive lineman make better skill players.  It obviously would be awesome to just recruit some out of HS but guys tend to be more open down field when we are running all over teams or our QB can sit there for 4 seconds and let the route develop.  

From a preference standpoint, I'm fine with first getting in the necessary numbers of offensive linemen, but you can't overlook the skill positions either. That's partly why UND's offense is so anemic right now. Youth and lack of speed on perimeter and disorganized line play. It's a team game -- need BOTH offensive line play and guys who are good in space or have a way about them of getting into the end zone. Right now, UND has limited play in both areas and the result is a "points are hard to come by" offense. 

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, UND-1 said:

Williams showed, he was just not a good football player and left after spring IIRC.  He was a late addition to the class anyway.  

Merz and Grady are the two that really hurt.  

Camy (juco) was a bust.

Blair is here and doing well but will take at least 2-3 years to be ready since he was 240 out of HS.

Francis had a injury issue and couldn't put on weight so he was moved to fullback.  That hurt because he would have been a very good center or guard.

Brendan Slaight (juco) flaked out and never showed up.  That hurt.

Like you said, this year's senior class only signed one OL (Isenberger) and he transferred.  

Helgren, Tobin, Mortel and Nguon need to hit.  Period.  They all look good and have done well thus far.

I believe you're referring to Tamy when you say Williams. Williams - I think that was his name - was a great OL prospect from Canada and he never made it to fall camp.

[UND-1]

29 minutes ago, Hambone said:

Williams was the Canadian (and one of our early verbals) who wasn't able to get through the NCAA clearinghouse, and ended up at the U of Manitoba prior to ever setting foot on campus.  I think he would have been a good one - even though a different level I believe he started as a true freshmen last year for Manitoba at RT (I know he's starting this year).  

Was talking about Rashad Williams from Illinois.  But yes, forgot about Zack Williams.

Anybody else's head spinning right now?  

[UND08]

28 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

From a preference standpoint, I'm fine with first getting in the necessary numbers of offensive linemen, but you can't overlook the skill positions either. That's partly why UND's offense is so anemic right now. Youth and lack of speed on perimeter and disorganized line play. It's a team game -- need BOTH offensive line play and guys who are good in space or have a way about them of getting into the end zone. Right now, UND has limited play in both areas and the result is a "points are hard to come by" offense.

Everyone keeps harping on a lack of speed on the outside ("we need a burner")...a skilled receiver with blazing speed is kind of like trying to find a 7'0" center in basketball with skills...it's easier said than done.  I hate comparing us to NDSU, but who was their burner over their run?  They had speed out of the slot in Ryan Smith...but we've got a comparable player in Santiago, and a kid from Washington coming in with a similar type of skillset.  Zach Vraa didn't have elite speed...and neither does Urzendowski...however they are/were both highly skilled receivers that use their route running and the offense's ground and pound success to get open in playaction.  We've got two skilled, but highly inexperienced true freshman receivers that I honestly don't even know how well they do running deep routes, since we haven't really called any (other than a 35 yarder to Wanzek on the 1st play of the USD game...I'd like to see more of that).  My hope is that as our young offensive skill players get more comfortable in the offense...and our line continues to gel, we see more creativity to make big plays happen.

This is not to say that I'm against finding big play receivers...I'm hoping we can find playmakers and have them work out for us as well as some of the defensive athletes we've signed the last couple of years.  So far the class looks good...I'd like to see 4-5 linemen like others have said, along with a traditional receiver with decent speed.

[geaux_sioux]

9 minutes ago, UND08 said:

Everyone keeps harping on a lack of speed on the outside ("we need a burner")...a skilled receiver with blazing speed is kind of like trying to find a 7'0" center in basketball with skills...it's easier said than done.  I hate comparing us to NDSU, but who was their burner over their run?  They had speed out of the slot in Ryan Smith...but we've got a comparable player in Santiago, and a kid from Washington coming in with a similar type of skillset.  Zach Vraa didn't have elite speed...and neither does Urzendowski...however they are/were both highly skilled receivers that use their route running and the offense's ground and pound success to get open in playaction.  We've got two skilled, but highly inexperienced true freshman receivers that I honestly don't even know how well they do running deep routes, since we haven't really called any (other than a 35 yarder to Wanzek on the 1st play of the USD game...I'd like to see more of that).  My hope is that as our young offensive skill players get more comfortable in the offense...and our line continues to gel, we see more creativity to make big plays happen.

This is not to say that I'm against finding big play receivers...I'm hoping we can find playmakers and have them work out for us as well as some of the defensive athletes we've signed the last couple of years.  So far the class looks good...I'd like to see 4-5 linemen like others have said, along with a traditional receiver with decent speed.

My thought is that if the last staff had no problem finding play makers this staff can too. It really hurt us to lose Dev Ferguson. He was a baller. 

We took one deep shot against the Bobcats to Stanley but he got one hand tied up by the defender. One of three important missed obvious PI calls that would've helped us. I expect two deep shots this week.

[UND08]

7 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

My thought is that if the last staff had no problem finding play makers this staff can too. It really hurt us to lose Dev Ferguson. He was a baller.

We took one deep shot against the Bobcats to Stanley but he got one hand tied up by the defender. One of three important missed obvious PI calls that would've helped us. I expect two deep shots this week.

I think our style of play hurts in finding these types of guys...which is going to happen with a certain position group no matter what type of offensive philosophy you have.  I think we have guys on the team that can make plays down the field...but we've got to call the plays to make it happen (as well as execute in our running game to help open these plays up).  If we can't hit them over the top...then at least look to more back shoulder type of plays...our receivers have height and decent body control...I think this could be an effective way to loosen things up a little.

[geaux_sioux]

1 minute ago, UND08 said:

I think our style of play hurts in finding these types of guys...which is going to happen with a certain position group no matter what type of offensive philosophy you have.  I think we have guys on the team that can make plays down the field...but we've got to call the plays to make it happen (as well as execute in our running game to help open these plays up).  If we can't hit them over the top...then at least look to more back shoulder type of plays...our receivers have height and decent body control...I think this could be an effective way to loosen things up a little.

You can sell a recruit on them being a missing piece of an offense. Instead of them being lost on the field with 5 other WRs every play they could be the go to guy. Sounds pretty attractive to me. 

[The Sicatoka]

To me you recruit almost "full units" every year. That's 5 OL, at least one TE/FB, a feature back, two WRs, an a QB. You do the same on defense: at least 3 DL, 4 LB, and 4 DBs. You go with specials on the "other" years (P on evens, K on odds). That's a class of about 20-22 every year. Attrition says the math works. 

[UND08]

5 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

You can sell a recruit on them being a missing piece of an offense. Instead of them being lost on the field with 5 other WRs every play they could be the go to guy. Sounds pretty attractive to me.

Not disagreeing with you on that...and by no means am I advocating on not trying...but I think we've been snake-bitten somewhat in our attempts to stretch the field, having Ferguson flame out before he got to campus, moving Santiago to RB out of need and not getting any performance to this point out of Dulin...

[gundy1124]

1 hour ago, UND-1 said:

Was talking about Rashad Williams from Illinois.  But yes, forgot about Zack Williams.

Anybody else's head spinning right now?  

I was told Zack Williams could of played as a true Fresh. that's how much that hurt us, too.

[geaux_sioux]

9 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

To me you recruit almost "full units" every year. That's 5 OL, at least one TE/FB, a feature back, two WRs, an a QB. You do the same on defense: at least 3 DL, 4 LB, and 4 DBs. You go with specials on the "other" years (P on evens, K on odds). That's a class of about 20-22 every year. Attrition says the math works. 

This year I'd like to see 2 scholarship qbs. We need to get to the point where the backup is the most popular player to the fans. Any time the starter makes a mistake were should be able to complain about how the second string guy would be doing so much better.

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, UND08 said:

Everyone keeps harping on a lack of speed on the outside ("we need a burner")...a skilled receiver with blazing speed is kind of like trying to find a 7'0" center in basketball with skills...it's easier said than done.  I hate comparing us to NDSU, but who was their burner over their run?  They had speed out of the slot in Ryan Smith...but we've got a comparable player in Santiago, and a kid from Washington coming in with a similar type of skillset.  Zach Vraa didn't have elite speed...and neither does Urzendowski...however they are/were both highly skilled receivers that use their route running and the offense's ground and pound success to get open in playaction.  We've got two skilled, but highly inexperienced true freshman receivers that I honestly don't even know how well they do running deep routes, since we haven't really called any (other than a 35 yarder to Wanzek on the 1st play of the USD game...I'd like to see more of that).  My hope is that as our young offensive skill players get more comfortable in the offense...and our line continues to gel, we see more creativity to make big plays happen.

This is not to say that I'm against finding big play receivers...I'm hoping we can find playmakers and have them work out for us as well as some of the defensive athletes we've signed the last couple of years.  So far the class looks good...I'd like to see 4-5 linemen like others have said, along with a traditional receiver with decent speed.

I do not disagree with you, at all.

Essentially, the offense just needs more personnel and, with that, more competition. The offense is thin in many spots and that has resulted in the quality of play at those spots being average to below average (namely OL, WR, and QB). Competition produces better players, which is partly why attrition to even backup players hurts the overall team and program so much. Have to recruit kids that will stick it out the ENTIRE 4 to 5 YEARS, even if they are not tops on the depth chart. 

Remember, there are two ways to improve personnel: development and recruiting. Recruiting more depth is essential (even players that are of the same style we have now), so there's that; but developing the young guys on this team is also key. I expect the offensive line and receivers on this team to continue to improve as the season progresses just because of their youth and inexperience; that bodes well for UND. 

[Sioux94]

53 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

This year I'd like to see 2 scholarship qbs. We need to get to the point where the backup is the most popular player to the fans. Any time the starter makes a mistake were should be able to complain about how the second string guy would be doing so much better.

God help us I don't want to go back to the days of half the people wanting one QB (Mollberg) and half the people wanting the other QB (Bartels).  I do get what you are saying though that in your situation they would both be so good we wouldn't know who to start, instead of the opposite of that which is what we had.  Even with that said.....I think it's important for the team to have 1 true starter and leader the team can rally behind, and you can have that even if the backup is really good.  Look how good Wentz was, and he was on the bench when Jensen was there, I don't believe people were calling for Wentz to come in if Jensen threw a pick. 

[siouxfan512]

4 minutes ago, Sioux94 said:

God help us I don't want to go back to the days of half the people wanting one QB (Mollberg) and half the people wanting the other QB (Bartels).  I do get what you are saying though that in your situation they would both be so good we wouldn't know who to start, instead of the opposite of that which is what we had.  Even with that said.....I think it's important for the team to have 1 true starter and leader the team can rally behind, and you can have that even if the backup is really good.  Look how good Wentz was, and he was on the bench when Jensen was there, I don't believe people were calling for Wentz to come in if Jensen through a pick. 

True, but I think we can all agree, NDSU has been in a pretty unique situation for the last 6-8 years.

[UND-FB-FAN]

31 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

This year I'd like to see 2 scholarship qbs. We need to get to the point where the backup is the most popular player to the fans. Any time the starter makes a mistake were should be able to complain about how the second string guy would be doing so much better.

I agree. This, to a degree, lines up with my last post above. 

Although I am not advocating for fans to be upset and always calling for backups, I do strongly believe UND needs to simply improve the talent in the two-deep. With that, the competition will naturally improve the capability of the starters.

The few places on this team where we see this is running back, defensive line, and linebacker; not coincidentally, those spots are the most complete and productive. 

[Hambone]

1 hour ago, UND-1 said:

Was talking about Rashad Williams from Illinois.  But yes, forgot about Zack Williams.

Anybody else's head spinning right now?  

Completely forgot about Rashad myself