coach daddy Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I think it's too big to be a Panera... but that's just my opinion. I'd also rather have something else... I'm not a Panera fan It would be a great location for a Dagwoods!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 It would be a great location for a Dagwoods!!! Any sports bar would do GREAT! We need more options right next to the Ralph. (for eating and consuming adult beverages before and after games) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Any sports bar would do GREAT! We need more options right next to the Ralph. (for eating and consuming adult beverages before and after games) That is the exact problem, people only ate there during sporting events. They do need something with a wider appeal, and something with wireless internet like Panera would be a good fit if the building were of size. It is probably a little big for a Panera or Chipotle, but both would be good fits for the campus area. Regardless, they need something that students would attend even when there aren't sporting events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 That is the exact problem, people only ate there during sporting events. They do need something with a wider appeal, and something with wireless internet like Panera would be a good fit if the building were of size. It is probably a little big for a Panera or Chipotle, but both would be good fits for the campus area. Regardless, they need something that students would attend even when there aren't sporting events. Kind of what I was thinking. You need to have a more constant flow of customers which you would get most of the year with school in session. Also, if the Bronson property is to be fully developed, as has been planned, cafes and coffee shops would be preferable on a college campus than a bar/restaurant. The percentage of students that can legally drink in ND is small. Why not cater to a bigger percentage with something like a Panera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Kind of what I was thinking. You need to have a more constant flow of customers which you would get most of the year with school in session. Also, if the Bronson property is to be fully developed, as has been planned, cafes and coffee shops would be preferable on a college campus than a bar/restaurant. The percentage of students that can legally drink in ND is small. Why not cater to a bigger percentage with something like a Panera? I also think it was the wrong bar for that area and it was way too expensive for a bar that is on campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 That is the exact problem, people only ate there during sporting events. They do need something with a wider appeal, and something with wireless internet like Panera would be a good fit if the building were of size. It is probably a little big for a Panera or Chipotle, but both would be good fits for the campus area. Regardless, they need something that students would attend even when there aren't sporting events. I envision a place like BWW that people go to for all sports, I agree that a place built for crowds at the Ralph will fail bad. They should serve a great lunch for the UND crowd. (students and staff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiSioux Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 What about a place like Red Robin? I've only been in one... but it seemed like a very lively place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Any sports bar would do GREAT! We need more options right next to the Ralph. (for eating and consuming adult beverages before and after games) Granite City Brewery would be a great fit, and I think it would do great...but the price issue might still be there. Very little retrofit would need to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonersNSioux Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Oh man... Red Robin. All you can eat fries and great burgers... works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Walrus Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 It would be a great location for a Dagwoods!!! ummmmmmm.....? Seriously it would be next to impossible for a Sports Bar / Resturant to make it there with the level of support you get from Grand Forks. Now before everybody bashes me for that statement, let me break it down. The residents of Grand Forks want a variety of avenues to enjoy, which is good, a sports bar is just one variety. There is not a consistant amount of revenue on a consistant basis for you to be able to pay for the simple interest 99 year lease on the land or the mortgage on a 2 million dollar building. You would have to be able to obtain 2.5 to 3 million in gross sales. That would equate to over 8,000 per day for 360 days a year, which would include 7 days a week, Sundays, Mondays,...? You would never ever be able to obtain that average. I can not think of one Bar or Resturant in Grand Forks right now doing those numbers. I think you would find it difficult, for any Food and Beverage type establishment that decided to go in that location. The previous owners had deeper pockets than most, and they could not handle (or chose not to) the amount of losses that occured. Bar and Resturants are a difficult enity to make successfull, and my hat is off to the longevity of such establishments in GF, like Southgate, El Roco, Italian Moon, Bonzers, Red Pepper, Sanders, Bronze Boot, Happy Joes, Jimmy Johns, ect..these single location businesses are surviving only do to the hard efforts, works, and dedication of their local ownership. This building, this location, I am not sure you could find a Franchise type chain operation, somebody with 4-6-8 locations in a couple State area that could take on these overhead costs and make it work...? The difficulty comes from the support of the local community always wanting more variety and at the best possible deal available. There is not a more transient business I have witnessed in my time in Grand Forks, I have seen more Resturants come and go more than any other type business. It's nobody's fault, it is just a sign of the times that we are in. Now sure, whoever you are, or whatever Bar and/or Resturant you own, you need to have Good Food / Good Service / and Preception of Value, to even think you have a chance at success. The other thing mentioned was location, with the addition of the Ralph and the Alerus, both of which now offer a complete array of Food and Beverage (alcohol) type items, (sometimes higher than Resturant prices) you find your self competing for that entertainment dollar in these difficult economic times. If a family of 4 goes to the game and spends $50-$75, do they have enough left over to stop on the way to or from and spend more....? Anyway my hat is off to all the Locally owned and operated establishments, they are the ones that continually support Sioux Sports and the local causes, and I would hope everyone would support them as much as you can. I know I try to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 There is not a consistant amount of revenue on a consistant basis for you to be able to pay for the simple interest 99 year lease on the land or the mortgage on a 2 million dollar building. You would have to be able to obtain 2.5 to 3 million in gross sales. That would equate to over 8,000 per day for 360 days a year, which would include 7 days a week, Sundays, Mondays,...? You would never ever be able to obtain that average. I can not think of one Bar or Resturant in Grand Forks right now doing those numbers. Thanks for the insightful analysis, very interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I have suggestion Fat Tuesdays I love that place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 ummmmmmm.....? Seriously it would be next to impossible for a Sports Bar / Resturant to make it there with the level of support you get from Grand Forks. Now before everybody bashes me for that statement, let me break it down. The residents of Grand Forks want a variety of avenues to enjoy, which is good, a sports bar is just one variety. There is not a consistant amount of revenue on a consistant basis for you to be able to pay for the simple interest 99 year lease on the land or the mortgage on a 2 million dollar building. You would have to be able to obtain 2.5 to 3 million in gross sales. That would equate to over 8,000 per day for 360 days a year, which would include 7 days a week, Sundays, Mondays,...? You would never ever be able to obtain that average. I can not think of one Bar or Resturant in Grand Forks right now doing those numbers. So effectively, for a business case to work, the building has to sell or be leased at a rate at a value of around $1 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Walrus Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 So effectively, for a business case to work, the building has to sell or be leased at a rate at a value of around $1 million? That building, that location, with the overhead costs, will never be able to achieve the gross sales needed to cash flow as a Bar and Resturant in the Grand Forks market (imo). Does not mean that someone else will not try, the building and location is a investment, if you can afford to not have a immediate return on your investment, or not need to service debt of your investment. The national average says that Bars and Resturants return around 3-5% from gross sales to investors, if everything is working efficently. This is just a guess, but I would believe your monthly lease for building and land would be somewhere between 17- 20g's in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 That building, that location, with the overhead costs, will never be able to achieve the gross sales needed to cash flow as a Bar and Resturant in the Grand Forks market (imo). Does not mean that someone else will not try, the building and location is a investment, if you can afford to not have a immediate return on your investment, or not need to service debt of your investment. The national average says that Bars and Resturants return around 3-5% from gross sales to investors, if everything is working efficently. This is just a guess, but I would believe your monthly lease for building and land would be somewhere between 17- 20g's in this situation. Wasn't there a hope that a Marriott Suites would be built just north of Suite 49, and the Marriott would have utilized Suite 49 for it's kitchen, room service, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Walrus Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Wasn't there a hope that a Marriott Suites would be built just north of Suite 49, and the Marriott would have utilized Suite 49 for it's kitchen, room service, etc? I have not heard that...? It will take something of that concept, a attached Hotel, a owner / operator franchised type agreement to work. The Canad Inns would be a good example, if their Bars and Resturants were free standing and did not have residual income from banquets, parties, rooms (occupancy), and water park, they could not make it either (imo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 So effectively, for a business case to work, the building has to sell or be leased at a rate at a value of around $1 million? That is a lot of money for this town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Maybe I'm completely off base, but I thought a significant amount of that $2 million was in the excessive use of cutting edge technology to create the high-end atmosphere. Wouldn't that stuff be subject to high depreciation rates and written off at some point? In other words, just because it cost Suite 49 $2 million to start up, it doesn't mean another bar/resturant in that location would need anything close to that. I know next to nothing about stuff like this, however, so maybe I've just strung words together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 There is no doubt that a Buffalo Wild Wings would be wildly successful at the current former Suite 49 location. Its not a coincidence that BWW is going to build a new location in Grand Forks. Anyone with half a brain knew that Suite 49 was probably going to fail. Lets see: you have a market of 11,000 students within walking distance and you don't cater to them. Instead you advertised yourself as being "upscale" aka I cost a lot of money to go here . Its hard for anything upscale to work in GF let alone on the NorthEnd next to a place where students want "cheap." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 That is a lot of money for this town. Maybe in the 80's? but that is not much money nowadays. There is quite a few houses sold in GF for $500,000. And that doesn't produce any revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 There is no doubt that a Buffalo Wild Wings would be wildly successful at the current former Suite 49 location. Its not a coincidence that BWW is going to build a new location in Grand Forks. I wasn't aware they were looking at adding another store. I agree that would be an awesome location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I wasn't aware they were looking at adding another store. I agree that would be an awesome location. I thought it was mentioned and then they came out and said they weren't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromer Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I thought it was mentioned and then they came out and said they weren't? Have they changed plans since announcing they were looking at building a new building on 32 Ave? Obviously the proximity to their existing building would render it useless as a second location. However, maybe it would make more sense to keep the existing building and open a second one up north now that a building has opened up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Walrus Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Have they changed plans since announcing they were looking at building a new building on 32 Ave? Obviously the proximity to their existing building would render it useless as a second location. However, maybe it would make more sense to keep the existing building and open a second one up north now that a building has opened up. They would certainly fit the profile needed as a multi-locations franchise (ownership). I believe they already do decent numbers at the Mall location around 3m (paying close to 220g a year in rent). You would have to ask yourself, however, if they opened a 2nd location is there another 3m in revenues available to be had in GF...? ....and if not, by opening a 2nd location would it hurt sales at your 1st one....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxmama Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 They would certainly fit the profile needed as a multi-locations franchise (ownership). I believe they already do decent numbers at the Mall location around 3m (paying close to 220g a year in rent). You would have to ask yourself, however, if they opened a 2nd location is there another 3m in revenues available to be had in GF...? ....and if not, by opening a 2nd location would it hurt sales at your 1st one....? Mr. Siouxmama and I wondered the same thing when we decided to open a 2nd location in town. We had a business on the north end for 5 years before we opened on the south end. Now, they say that it takes about 1 year for your new (or 2nd location) to get to it's full potential. That was about true in our case. Our south end location has more in sales now, and it hasn't taken anything away from the north end. I think we gained customers on the south end, that thought it was "to far to drive" to the north end. And, those that were true to the original location, have stayed there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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