NCAA To Sanction UND if School Does Not Adopt New Nickname

[Siouxperman8]

It seems unrealistic to think that no other school will ever complain to the NCAA if we have no nickname and our fans continue to use the Sioux name and logo.  

As fans we will continue to use the name and logo so half of that equation is a given.   I don't think it will take the NCAA long to come down on us again and we will start this process all over.  Ugly.

[dmksioux]

did you not read the part where all it takes is some folks from other schools to complain basically?

Easy

Just for clarification purposes, I don't believe it will be the fans that create the issues.  It will be the vocal minority who are offended by the Sioux name that will cause the issues.  They will begin holding protests, contacting university presidents, etc.  The fans may do it just because they are college kids afterall and that's what college kids do.  The NCAA won't care about what chants fans are doing at a game.  The NCAA will  care when they start hearing from the vocal minority, University Presidents, etc.

[jdub27]

Interesting catch-22 the NCAA has laid out.  If the Fighting Sioux Forever crowd wants to continue to wear and yell Fighting Sioux related things, then the only way to do so without a very likely possibility of sanctions is to actually pick a new nickname.  If they hold fast, insist that it is all about being unique and keep pushing for "no nickname", then they really will have to follow through and support "no nickname".

I personally don't see the second scenario as plausible.  There are way too many people that have it entrenched in their mind that the University of North Dakota can only be known as the Fighting Sioux (and the NCAA knows this).  They aren't going to force UND to pick a new nickname, just like they didn't force them to retire the Fighting Sioux nickname.  However, they have no issue letting the possible (and very likely) consequences be known.

[darell1976]

It seems unrealistic to think that no other school will ever complain to the NCAA if we have no nickname and our fans continue to use the Sioux name and logo.  

As fans we will continue to use the name and logo so half of that equation is a given.   I don't think it will take the NCAA long to come down on us again and we will start this process all over.  Ugly.

Didn't St Clown State not print the Sioux name and logo and just referred to us as only North Dakota before the NA policy by the NCAA even came out. You know that would be one school once hockey season starts would complain. 

[darell1976]

It's all about the risk that UND wants to take.  Sure they could not pick a nickname and the NCAA would be OK with it......for now.  But there is a chance that the NCAA could revisit the issue if they see that problems exist with retaining the old name exist (in their opinion).  So why risk it?  Why go through all this again in a couple years?  

I agree, play it safe and pick a name. Once UND has a nickname like every school in the NCAA has then there is nothing they can do to the school for fans wearing a "historical" name and logo.

[siouxfan512]

My vote is still for No Nickname, but not because I want to unofficially be The Fighting Sioux (As much as I do love the name and logo). It is because the rest of the names are just no good (yes I know there are people who love Roughriders, and it is the best of the bunch) Still not a fan though. I would love to see UND continue on as they have the past few seasons.

North Dakota!

[siouxfan512]

I agree, play it safe and pick a name. Once UND has a nickname like every school in the NCAA has then there is nothing they can do to the school for fans wearing a "historical" name and logo.

Never say never, the NCAA is very good about always keeping a door open for themselves to makeup rules as they go.

 

[fightingsioux4life]

Never say never, the NCAA is very good about always keeping a door open for themselves to makeup rules as they go.

Which is why we cannot go without a name. I don't trust any of those suit-wearing fat cats any further than I could throw them.

[darell1976]

Never say never, the NCAA is very good about always keeping a door open for themselves to makeup rules as they go.

 

Which is why we need to pick a nickname, so we can keep them happy...for now.

[mksioux]

It's all about the risk that UND wants to take.  Sure they could not pick a nickname and the NCAA would be OK with it......for now.  But there is a chance that the NCAA could revisit the issue if they see that problems exist with retaining the old name exist (in their opinion).  So why risk it?  Why go through all this again in a couple years?  

One argument in favor of choosing no nickname and risk doing this again in a few years is because the list of current finalists is unbelievably bad.  I'd take my chances starting from a scratch in a few years and coming up with a better nickname.  Plus, I think a new nickname would be more palatable to more people in a few years than it is now.  

For the record, I'd be fine if Roughriders is chosen now.  I'd choose a "do-over" over any of the other four finalists.  But there is an argument to be made it wouldn't be the end of the world to choose no nickname now and see if the NCAA actually has the stones to enact a policy that would sanction a school for not having a nickname.  If the NCAA actually does it, then adopt a new nickname.

Edited August 4, 2015 by mksioux

[UND1983]

One argument in favor of choosing no nickname and risk doing this again in a few years is because the list of current finalists is unbelievably bad.  I'd take my chances starting from a scratch in a few years and coming up with a better nickname.  Plus, I think a new nickname would be more palatable to more people in a few years than it is now.  

* caveat - For the record, I'd be fine if Roughriders is chosen now.  But I'd choose a "do-over" over any of the other four finalists.

Better nicknames that nobody has heard of are going to pop up in the next couple years?  Huh.  

[mksioux]

Better nicknames that nobody has heard of are going to pop up in the next couple years?  Huh.  

Perhaps.  But even if not, there are nicknames that were summarily rejected in Round 1 of this process that are much better than 4 of the 5 finalists.  

[The Sicatoka]

(Reposted from "Nodak" thread)

It's no longer "fear mongering" (as some called it) when the NCAA has told UND if the complaints about hearing the old nickname continue sanctions will follow. 

Basically the NCAA has called the "no nickname" bluff: Even they recognize it's a way to keep using the old nickname. They are just waiting for the complaint as a trigger to bring the sanctions. 

[Benny Baker]

Have there been schools that complained about UND's nickname situation over the last three years?  Or does the NCAA expect that some administration is going to now become upset about all the Fighting Sioux logos in Engelstad Arena, which will not even be removed when UND becomes the North Stars? 

Honest question, but feel free to attack.

[darell1976]

One argument in favor of choosing no nickname and risk doing this again in a few years is because the list of current finalists is unbelievably bad.  I'd take my chances starting from a scratch in a few years and coming up with a better nickname.  Plus, I think a new nickname would be more palatable to more people in a few years than it is now.  

For the record, I'd be fine if Roughriders is chosen now.  I'd choose a "do-over" over any of the other four finalists.  But there is an argument to be made it wouldn't be the end of the world to choose no nickname now and see if the NCAA actually has the stones to enact a policy that would sanction a school for not having a nickname.  If the NCAA actually does it, then adopt a new nickname.

Or in a few years the UND president will say our school will be called this and its game over. Do we want to risk that? Or another thought of doing a do-over would be what if the final (enter number here) is all bad names again, you think we are doing this every few years forever? Pick a name now and move on...football season starts in 32 days.

[darell1976]

Have there been schools that complained about UND's nickname situation over the last three years?  Or does the NCAA expect that some administration is going to now become upset about all the Fighting Sioux logos in Engelstad Arena, which will not even be removed when UND becomes the North Stars? 

Honest question, but feel free to attack.

Over the last 3 years we have been transitioning towards a new nickname with the cool down period, thats gone a whole new chess match has begun with the NCAA.

[Hayduke]

Bottom line is that th e NCAA is forcing UND,  in a obviously underhanded way, to choose a nickname.  

 

Let's suck it up and get it done.   

[darell1976]

Bottom line is that th e NCAA is forcing UND,  in a obviously underhanded way, to choose a nickname.  

 

Let's suck it up and get it done.   

You said it!!

[mksioux]

Or in a few years the UND president will say our school will be called this and its game over. Do we want to risk that? Or another thought of doing a do-over would be what if the final (enter number here) is all bad names again, you think we are doing this every few years forever? Pick a name now and move on...football season starts in 32 days.

Under my hypothetical, UND would not be doing this every few years.  Just one more time.  Under my hypothetical, UND chooses no-nickname now and if the NCAA enacts a new policy in the future affirmatively requiring a new nickname, UND simply chooses one at that time.  In my opinion, whatever process is used at that time couldn't possibly be worse than the one that we just went through and it is highly doubtful it could yield a worse set of finalists.  Moreover, no-nickname will not be an option and everyone  (who is even remotely rational) will realize that and accept that.  I'm not necessarily arguing that's the best way to go, just throwing it out there for discussion.  I'm not convinced it would be the end of the world.  

Edited August 4, 2015 by mksioux

[Benny Baker]

What about when the NCAA executive committee adopts a new policy sanctioning schools for using Crusaders, Pioneers, Roughriders, and the like because those names are culturally insensitive to other ethnic groups and religions!?!?!?!

Crap, now we can't even go with Roughriders because of possible sanctions!  Spread the news!!!!

The only viable options are Sundogs, Nodaks, North Stars, and Fighting Hawks. 

[darell1976]

What about when the NCAA executive committee adopts a new policy sanctioning schools for using Crusaders, Pioneers, Roughriders, and the like because those names are culturally insensitive to other ethnic groups and religions!?!?!?!

Crap, now we can't even go with Roughriders because of possible sanctions!  Spread the news!!!!

The only viable options are Sundogs, Nodaks, North Stars, and Fighting Hawks. 

You mean like Fighting Irish? $$$$$  NCAA won't touch it. I think they bit off more than they could chew with the NA list when FSU threaten to sue and lucked out when they got permission. I think the NCAA is done with getting rid of nicknames.  

[Benny Baker]

You mean like Fighting Irish? $$$$$  NCAA won't touch it. I think they bit off more than they could chew with the NA list when FSU threaten to sue and lucked out when they got permission. I think the NCAA is done with getting rid of nicknames.  

No kidding.

[The Sicatoka]

Have there been schools that complained about UND's nickname situation over the last three years? 

I don't know. Only the complainant and the NCAA would know for sure ... and maybe UND. 

I am willing to say this: After 'Goon' got UND to go on the record, I suspect the usual complainant's from the "58202" are firing off the correspondence to the NCAA. 

[The Sicatoka]

What about when the NCAA executive committee adopts a new policy sanctioning schools for using Crusaders, Pioneers, Roughriders, and the like because those names are culturally insensitive to other ethnic groups and religions!?!?!?!

Crap, now we can't even go with Roughriders because of possible sanctions!  Spread the news!!!!

The only viable options are Sundogs, Nodaks, North Stars, and Fighting Hawks. 

Now who's fear mongering? 

Edited August 4, 2015 by The Sicatoka

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

(Reposted from "Nodak" thread)

It's no longer "fear mongering" (as some called it) when the NCAA has told UND if the complaints about hearing the old nickname continue sanctions will follow. 

Basically the NCAA has called the "no nickname" bluff: Even they recognize it's a way to keep using the old nickname. They are just waiting for the complaint as a trigger to bring the sanctions. 

Not so fast.

The NCAA has all but stepped in it here.  They have threatened punishment on vague grounds with zero leverage.  On what basis can they possibly hope to impose these mythical sanctions?  Sure, they have rules for attendance at NCAA championships, and can boot spectators for proscribed activities, but to punish member schools with associational sanctions for isolated episodes, let alone mere reports, of spectator conduct?  Especially when the standard is, as yet, wholly undefined?  Any enforcement action would have to be preceded by the implementation of clear guidance and new rules.

The biggest problem in this rapid-fire analysis of third-party hearsay is that we don't know the precise contours of the conversation.  Maybe somebody just teed it up for the NCAA representative, who then blindly took advantage and swung for the fences with an ill-informed response on an incomplete hypothetical.  There are far too many variables and missing material facts to render so definite a prediction.  I would hesitate to conclude that tyranny shrouded in mystery is the official company line of the NCAA, although they do at times recklessly wield the power they do have.