Big Sky Conference Commissioner Doug Fullerton Conversation

[UND1983]

MVFC compares quite well, the others have some work to so. 

 

 CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS WIN50%

   1  SEC-WEST            (A) =  88.75      88.95  (  1)      7      88.88  (  1)

   2  PAC-12(SOUTH)       (A) =  80.09      78.64  (  3)      6      79.31  (  3)

   3  SEC-EAST            (A) =  79.55      78.78  (  2)      7      79.35  (  2)

   4  BIG 12              (A) =  76.22      76.60  (  5)     10      76.32  (  5)

   5  BIG TEN-EAST        (A) =  76.14      78.09  (  4)      7      78.49  (  4)

   6  ACC-ATLANTIC        (A) =  74.80      74.13  (  8)      7      74.60  (  7)

   7  PAC-12(NORTH)       (A) =  74.79      76.14  (  6)      6      75.27  (  6)

   8  ACC-COASTAL         (A) =  74.35      74.78  (  7)      7      74.54  (  8)

   9  BIG TEN-WEST        (A) =  73.09      73.11  (  9)      7      73.10  (  9)

  10  I-A INDEPENDENTS    (A) =  68.49      67.79  ( 10)      4      68.43  ( 10)

  11  MWC-MOUNTAIN        (A) =  66.80      66.41  ( 11)      6      66.64  ( 11)

  12  MISSOURI VALLEY     (AA)=  64.12      64.35  ( 12)     10      64.34  ( 12)

  13  CONFERENCE USA-EAST (A) =  62.30      63.41  ( 13)      7      62.73  ( 13)

  14  MAC-WEST            (A) =  61.61      59.95  ( 16)      6      61.09  ( 14)

  15  AMERICAN ATHLETIC   (A) =  60.88      59.97  ( 15)     11      60.47  ( 16)

  16  CONFERENCE USA-WEST (A) =  60.15      61.40  ( 14)      6      60.84  ( 15)

  17  MWC-WEST            (A) =  57.52      57.13  ( 17)      6      57.24  ( 17)

  18  SUN BELT            (A) =  55.95      55.78  ( 18)     11      55.89  ( 18)

  19  MAC-EAST            (A) =  53.09      52.90  ( 19)      7      52.91  ( 19)

  20  BIG SOUTH           (AA)=  52.56      52.56  ( 20)      6      52.57  ( 20)

  21  SOUTHERN            (AA)=  50.54      50.59  ( 21)      8      50.53  ( 21)

  22  COLONIAL            (AA)=  48.11      48.00  ( 22)     12      48.09  ( 22)

  23  SOUTHLAND           (AA)=  47.11      44.58  ( 27)     11      47.30  ( 23)

  24  BIG SKY             (AA)=  46.47      47.18  ( 23)     13      46.90  ( 24)

  25  OHIO VALLEY         (AA)=  45.52      45.25  ( 24)      9      45.52  ( 25)

  26  I-AA INDEPENDENTS   (AA)=  44.63      44.63  ( 26)      1      44.63  ( 27)

  27  PATRIOT             (AA)=  44.45      44.97  ( 25)      7      44.67  ( 26)

  28  NORTHEAST           (AA)=  42.68      41.12  ( 28)      7      42.21  ( 28)

  29  IVY LEAGUE          (AA)=  39.84      39.55  ( 29)      8      39.84  ( 29)

  30  MID-EASTERN         (AA)=  36.13      35.33  ( 30)     11      35.99  ( 30)

  31  SWAC-WEST           (AA)=  32.11      31.32  ( 32)      5      31.55  ( 32)

  32  SWAC-EAST           (AA)=  31.59      32.23  ( 31)      5      31.78  ( 31)

  33  PIONEER             (AA)=  24.27      24.76  ( 33)     11      24.55  ( 33)

 

 

How can they possibly justify ranking FCS conferences vs FBS when they don't play each other or same level teams, sans 1 game, maybe?

[The Sicatoka]

The lower G5 and FCS will not be joining any time soon unless a unified scholarship level is set. What Fullerton doesn't understand is that the BSC is in big trouble if they have to increase scholarships, most of them can't. A move to even 70 would be painful for most if not all. You won't be joining the G5 at 63 Doug.

 

You say going to a unified scholarship level like it is akin to middle east peace.

 

Clearly some MAC schools are having fiscal issues (see: Akron). If there's one, there are probably more. 

 

With FCOA on the horizon it'd be an easy out politically for some of the G5 to move to a 74* scholarship number to align ("we didn't cut, we aligned to the new rules") to a new middle tier. They'd use the dollars difference (85 to 74) for FCOA. 

 

To your other point, FCS schools with fiscal issues wouldn't be able to make that work (because 63 is a struggle, and FCOA makes it worse). Those would end up not transitioning to this new middle tier. 

 

 

* (85 + 63) / 2 = 74 ... split the difference between current FBS and FCS. Then again, they might pick a number like 90% of FBS or 76.5. 

[jdub27]

I'd say the majority of G5, let alone FCS, can't actually afford FCOA but will still offer it in some form or another.  If and when they pay it, it will just require higher subsidies from somewhere.  The G5 is also staring down a big cut in their funding from a split in the P5/G5 as their TV revenue will be slashed when something happens.

[Herd]

You say going to a unified scholarship level like it is akin to middle east peace.

 

Clearly some MAC schools are having fiscal issues (see: Akron). If there's one, there are probably more. 

 

With FCOA on the horizon it'd be an easy out politically for some of the G5 to move to a 74* scholarship number to align ("we didn't cut, we aligned to the new rules") to a new middle tier. They'd use the dollars difference (85 to 74) for FCOA. 

 

To your other point, FCS schools with fiscal issues wouldn't be able to make that work (because 63 is a struggle, and FCOA makes it worse). Those would end up not transitioning to this new middle tier. 

 

 

* (85 + 63) / 2 = 74 ... split the difference between current FBS and FCS. Then again, they might pick a number like 90% of FBS or 76.5. 

 

All we can do at this point is speculate, but it would likely take a minimum number of scholarships to be able to play games vs. the P5 teams, and it will be higher than 63 I would think in the future.   If it's higher than 63, most of the FCS isn't going there, period.  I would agree with you that some number below 85 and above 63 will be the minimum scholarship number for an adjusted Tier 2 in college football and some FCS teams will try to get to this level with some FBS teams reducing down to try to better afford college football.  74 is as good of a guess as any.   I would guess that 70 or 75 will be the minimum.

[Herd]

MWC and American plays an FBS schedule, MVFC plays FCS teams....big difference. Teams like NDSU could probably hold their own in the MWC with a degree of difficulty but not your whole conference, and I know you can think of MVFC teams that would struggle in the next level.

An FBS schedule? . . . you need to be more specific.  They play their conf, 1-2 vs. other G5's, 1 game vs. FCS and 1 or 2 games vs. P5 teams.   Most FCS play their conf, 2 FCS and 1 game vs. G5/P5.   Not a huge difference really, depending on the conf strength.

[homer]

All we can do at this point is speculate, but it would likely take a minimum number of scholarships to be able to play games vs. the P5 teams, and it will be higher than 63 I would think in the future. If it's higher than 63, most of the FCS isn't going there, period. I would agree with you that some number below 85 and above 63 will be the minimum scholarship number for an adjusted Tier 2 in college football and some FCS teams will try to get to this level with some FBS teams reducing down to try to better afford college football. 74 is as good of a guess as any. I would guess that 70 or 75 will be the minimum.

There was also earlier talk of P5 schools

wanting to add scholarships. If they add 10-15 scholorahips, that's a big difference.

[Herd]

There was also earlier talk of P5 schools

wanting to add scholarships. If they add 10-15 scholorahips, that's a big difference.

 

So Iowa State and Kansas are dropping to Tier 2?   Many in the P5 can't afford to add scholarships, the P5 is more than just Alabama, LSU, Ohio State and USC.   If anything, they might be able to add 5 to 90, if conference tv money is available to pay the bill.

[The Sicatoka]

All we can do at this point is speculate, but it would likely take a minimum number of scholarships to be able to play games vs. the P5 teams, and it will be higher than 63 I would think in the future.  

 

Speculate? Agree, and that's where (thinking about it some more) I think the 90% of 85 number (76.5) might be it. Why? Because you have to average 90% of FBS max on a rolling two-year basis to be considered FBS today. I suspect that more than we know of the G5 are getting by that way today. The P5 would probably say you have to be at that number to play a game against a P5. 

 

The second tier would probably say you have to support at least 90% of the 90% (or 67) to move to the second tier. 

 

That would let the G5 save some face (as they "align" again). It would allow the top of FCS (who can afford it, yeah, some marginally) to move up, but it would also be a move up as it would be adding scholarships (63 to 67).

 

That would allow the "just getting by" part of FCS to stay where there are (again saving face). Honestly, I'd expect that group a few years after that to start moving their number down. 

 

What blows this whole notion up? The P5 group (and their TV money) saying, "We're going to 20 per class, or 100 on campus at any time." Possible? Very. But in the land for FCOA, that gets pricey quick also. 

[darell1976]

An FBS schedule? . . . you need to be more specific.  They play their conf, 1-2 vs. other G5's, 1 game vs. FCS and 1 or 2 games vs. P5 teams.   Most FCS play their conf, 2 FCS and 1 game vs. G5/P5.   Not a huge difference really, depending on the conf strength.

Playing 11 FBS teams vs playing 11 FCS teams is a huge difference.  Playing an LSU team (like EMU does) is different than playing South Dakota or even UND. NDSU would struggle, just ask App State what would Bison fans think if they played Michigan and got thumped 52-14. The bandwagon would come off and tickets would be given away at a gas station again.

[nd1sufan]

Playing 11 FBS teams vs playing 11 FCS teams is a huge difference.  Playing an LSU team (like EMU does) is different than playing South Dakota or even UND. NDSU would struggle, just ask App State what would Bison fans think if they played Michigan and got thumped 52-14. The bandwagon would come off and tickets would be given away at a gas station again.

Yes, just ask Georgia Southern. They go win the Sun Belt their first year and are picked to win it again this year. Playing that FBS schedule last year sure hurt them.

[homer]

So Iowa State and Kansas are dropping to Tier 2? Many in the P5 can't afford to add scholarships, the P5 is more than just Alabama, LSU, Ohio State and USC. If anything, they might be able to add 5 to 90, if conference tv money is available to pay the bill.

Kansas and Iowa St received roughly 30 million each last year from Conference distributions. That's big boy money. I think they could afford more scholorahips to keep receiving that money. Plus, many conference commissioners are on record stating that figure will increase in the coming years. So to answer your question, Kansas and Iowa st will stay right where they are.

[UND1983]

Yes, just ask Georgia Southern. They go win the Sun Belt their first year and are picked to win it again this year. Playing that FBS schedule last year sure hurt them.

1 team...1 year. We are talking about a whole conference, every year.

[darell1976]

Yes, just ask Georgia Southern. They go win the Sun Belt their first year and are picked to win it again this year. Playing that FBS schedule last year sure hurt them.

If it's so easy why doesn't NDSU move up, what's holding them back? 4 NC, undefeated records, 19k dome, sign them up for the Sun Belch with Idaho.

[bison73]

If it's so easy why doesn't NDSU move up, what's holding them back? 4 NC, undefeated records, 19k dome, sign them up for the Sun Belch with Idaho.

Nobody said it was easy. It was a factual comment. Why so defensive?

[darell1976]

Nobody said it was easy. It was a factual comment. Why so defensive?

C'mon BV is foaming at the mouth to become the next Boise State seeing how easy they have risen to the top so quickly in the FCS beating FBS powerhouses of Minnesota and Kansas that the FBS would be a breeze I mean you guys love those Massey ratings that show the Bison towering over the bottom feeders of the G5. So what's stopping you guys from moving up?

[bisoninnwmn]

C'mon BV is foaming at the mouth to become the next Boise State seeing how easy they have risen to the top so quickly in the FCS beating FBS powerhouses of Minnesota and Kansas that the FBS would be a breeze I mean you guys love those Massey ratings that show the Bison towering over the bottom feeders of the G5. So what's stopping you guys from moving up?

 

 

If anyone in he FCS can move up it is NDSU, except maybe Liberty.  NDSU could not afford FBS right now but they could compete with G5 schools.  If there ends up being a 2nd tier  of D1, I hope NDSU is in it.

[homer]

If anyone in he FCS can move up it is NDSU, except maybe Liberty. NDSU could not afford FBS right now but they could compete with G5 schools. If there ends up being a 2nd tier of D1, I hope NDSU is in it.

According to NDSU fans tweets yesterday, money isn't an issue at NDSU.

[JohnboyND7]

So Iowa State and Kansas are dropping to Tier 2? Many in the P5 can't afford to add scholarships, the P5 is more than just Alabama, LSU, Ohio State and USC. If anything, they might be able to add 5 to 90, if conference tv money is available to pay the bill.

Those schools have plenty of money. At Kansas and Iowa State, just because they are awful doesn't mean they can't afford it

[bison73]

C'mon BV is foaming at the mouth to become the next Boise State seeing how easy they have risen to the top so quickly in the FCS beating FBS powerhouses of Minnesota and Kansas that the FBS would be a breeze I mean you guys love those Massey ratings that show the Bison towering over the bottom feeders of the G5. So what's stopping you guys from moving up?

 

Only one person is foaming at the mouth at being the next Boise State and thats lakes. But hes been pretty much shut down over there. Whats stopping us from moving up? The NCAA rules for one thing. You have to be invited to a conference thats FBS. They no longer allow you to be an independent and then look for a conference. Plus there are also a host of other considerations one has to make before such a move can be undertaken. But the NCAA rules is a biggie.

[bison73]

According to NDSU fans tweets yesterday, money isn't an issue at NDSU.

 

The majority of fans anywhere dont have a clue what the costs of such a move entails. So you are going to believe a bunch of tweeters? LOL

[bison73]

Playing 11 FBS teams vs playing 11 FCS teams is a huge difference.  Playing an LSU team (like EMU does) is different than playing South Dakota or even UND. NDSU would struggle, just ask App State what would Bison fans think if they played Michigan and got thumped 52-14. The bandwagon would come off and tickets would be given away at a gas station again.

 

Wow you sure like to use extremes. But take this in to consideration. NDSU has done very well against FBS competition even though we are at a scholarship disadvantage. If that scenario stays the same then yes NDSU would have a difficult time playing (for example only) Big Ten teams every week. Depth would be a huge issue. BUT give NDSU the same amount of full rides that the big schools have. You dont think NDSU wouldnt be competitive?

[darell1976]

Wow you sure like to use extremes. But take this in to consideration. NDSU has done very well against FBS competition even though we are at a scholarship disadvantage. If that scenario stays the same then yes NDSU would have a difficult time playing (for example only) Big Ten teams every week. Depth would be a huge issue. BUT give NDSU the same amount of full rides that the big schools have. You dont think NDSU wouldnt be competitive?

Hard to tell if they would be competitive, the Sun Belt (the only conference you guys would be invited to) is a lot more traveling than a short drive around the MVFC and those pesky time zones you would be playing in all but the Pacific. Picture it as the BSC at the FBS level for traveling. You could be the next Georgia Southern (or Boise State) then again you could be the next Idaho.

[JohnboyND7]

Wow you sure like to use extremes. But take this in to consideration. NDSU has done very well against FBS competition even though we are at a scholarship disadvantage. If that scenario stays the same then yes NDSU would have a difficult time playing (for example only) Big Ten teams every week. Depth would be a huge issue. BUT give NDSU the same amount of full rides that the big schools have. You dont think NDSU wouldnt be competitive?

Define competitive. I think a .500 record would be possible doable most seasons.

[homer]

The majority of fans anywhere dont have a clue what the costs of such a move entails. So you are going to believe a bunch of tweeters? LOL

Most do but no one chimed in to stop the bidonville logic being argued with Schlossman yesterday. It was entertaining. "Money isn't an issue at NDSU".

[Bison Dan]

Most do but no one chimed in to stop the bidonville logic being argued with Schlossman yesterday. It was entertaining. "Money isn't an issue at NDSU".

The biggest thing wrong with Schlossman's article is the lack of rivalry hasn't hurt NDSU at all.  No one could have predicted the success of NDSU when moving up. 3 wins against the B12 - 2 against the B10 - 2 MAC wins and 4 NC's.   I paid 70.00 per ticket for the Griz game this year (face value) does that make them our rival?  Schlossman's logic would say yes.