Blackheart Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Can we get a separate thread for the "Grand Forks vs DaveK" discussion? That'd be great. And the title of that thread will be Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 And the title of that thread will "Super Dave: The Swami Says..." FYP Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 I never gave any specific numbers in my prediction. It wasn't about the GF schools going into decline, it was about their competition across the state improving dramatically. I merely said that the rest of the state would start catching up to the GF schools in the very near future and that as a result we would start to see more titles won by schools outside of GF than we saw in the past. Did I think Minot was better than Central this year? No I don't, and I don't think that Central was better than Fargo South in 2004 either... but that's why they play the games. As for GF hockey going in cycles, well you're sort of right about that. Central was the dominant school through the '60s, '70s, and into the early '80s. Red River has been the dominant school for the better part of the last 30 years while Central (during those same 30 years) has been much closer to the rest of the state than they've been to Red River. From 2006-2015 the rest of the state combined to win 5 state hockey championships to match the 5 won by the GF schools. Can you find any other point in history when over the span of any 10 year period the rest of the state won 5 titles to match the 5 won by the GF schools over that same 10 year period? I'll be anxiously awaiting your answer to that question. Just to clarify, are you going on the record in predicting that Central and Red River will combine to win 7 state championships in the next 7 years? My personal opinion is that over the next 20 to 30 years we won't see any one school come close to doing Red River has done over the last 30 years or what Central did for the previous 25-30. Red River will in all likelihood continue to be the most frequent winner of state hockey titles, but instead of averaging one every other year like they did in the past it'll probably be more like one every four or five years. I believe that what we have seen over the past four years (four different state champions from four different cities) is what we're going to see much more of in the future. And I don't know why so many people think that's a bad thing. Would the Minnesota state high school tournament be as big a deal as it is if the same two teams won all the time? No, having greater competition across the state is good for high school hockey in the state of North Dakota. For the life of me I'll never understand the entitlement attitude that some people have regarding Central/Red River and state hockey titles. Just because those two schools both have a great hockey tradition, that doesn't mean they automatically deserve to continue winning every state championship from now until eternity. And I'm not even anti-GF, I actually wanted Red River to win it this year because I know a couple of kids on their team. I'm just anti grown-a$$ adults bragging about what happens in high school sports. Let's keep it in proper perspective, they're just kids. It's extremely obnoxious the way some people carry on about this, and that is the only reason why I made that prediction 10 years ago and then reminded everybody of it after Minot beat Central. Dave you are justifying your so called prediction that the rest of the schools are catching up to Grand Forks based on GF 'only' winning 5 out of the last 10 titles. That is true, but the fact is that a GF team was the number one team going into the state tournament each of those 10 years which means a GF team was the dominant team over the entire season for all 10 of those seasons. Based on your logic are you going to tell me the Union College has been a more dominant team then UND over the last 10 years because they have 1 title and UND has none? Dave I am going on record as saying a Grand Forks team will win at least 5 out of the next 7 state tournaments and a Grand Forks team will be the number one team going into the state tournament for at least the next 7 years. This is what I see from the kids in the program now and the kids coming up. It is based on head to head competition down to the Squirt A level. Is this because GF has a unreal bumper crop of kids coming up? The fact is that the kids in the GF program now and in the future will be a pretty good group but the reason for the dominance coming in North Dakota is due more for the lack of talent across the state. I see the rest of the state falling back in talent over the next few years which is sad. Dave, you will see the rest of the state taking a step back over the next few years. Winning the next 5 out of 7 state titles will not be the achievement it should be. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 Perhaps we need a KnightRiders boys team as well? That would really stick it to Imperial Cass County and their pipe dreams of hockey "dominance". Quote
GDPritch Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 Other fun facts- Grand Forks Central Enrollment: 929Grand Forks Red River Enrollment: 1150Total: 2079 Minot High Enrollment: 2100 Imagine if GF fielded one high school hockey team... for reference Edina high has an enrollment of 1940 Now I know we can cherry pick school enrollments, but just saying that a combined GF hockey team would not be unprecedented based on enrollment, and can you imagine the juggernaut they would be......Yah, a number of the Twin Cities suburbs of similar size to GF or even bigger only have one public HS, which makes (or should) for bigger student size to choose from for sports teams. Also, on the flip-side, EGF enrollment 490 so makes it even more impressive how EGF has competed in hockey the last 2 - 3 years against the bigger GF high schools. Heck, EGF even beat class 2A state tourney qualifiers Blaine and Bemidji (they split) this season. Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 Having the top ranked team going into the tournament is one thing, but being able to actually close the deal and in the process justify that ranking is another thing altogether. You say they'll win at least 5 of the next 7? I'll say at most 5 of the next 7. A much more realistic prediction would be 3 of the next 7. Projecting more long-term, over the next 30 years I see 12 for the GF schools (with Red River getting at least 9 of those 12) and 18 for the rest of the state. If we're all still here 30 years from now we can look back on this and see how close or how far off my projection was. Dave you are really predicting out 30 years from now? That is predicting results for kids that won't be an embryo for 12-14 years from now! I cannot debate this any more with you as I now see logic and reason are not part of your argument...you are all about false hope and wishes. My logic is based on the hundreds of games I have witnessed between GF teams and the rest of the state from the high school level to squirt A...and how do you come up with your logic? It wouldn't surprise me that 10-20 years from now the state tournament will not even exist as we know it now due to lack of talent compared to Minnesota and better opportunities that may come up through Midget hockey expansion. i can see the better kids going a new direction to find better competition which happens now on a smaller level but may increase at a level faster then many think especially due to the lack of future competition within the state of ND. 2 Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 I wouldn't call it a prediction, more of a speculation. I come up with my logic based on the fact that interest in the game at the youth level is growing statewide and the competition has gotten better gradually over the years with each new generation that has come along. As for the hundreds of games you witnessed from the squirt level on up... that does not guarantee success at the high school level. If it did, Fargo South would have won four in a row between 2004 and 2007. I watched hundreds of games from the squirt level on up during those years and saw the Fargo Flyers dominate the rest of the state (including the holier than thou GF teams). But their dominance at the squirt, peewee, and bantam levels did not guarantee anything beyond that. The fact of the matter is that South managed to win only one out of those four years (just like Red River from 2012 through 2015). So, I don't care what the current youth teams in GF are doing right now. The most talented team on paper does not always win on the ice. Sorry, but you can't just give all of the future state titles to GF (especially when the recent trend overwhelmingly shows that the rest of the state is starting to win much more frequently than in past generations). Your comments here are a good example of what I was referring to when I said that some people have an attitude of entitlement when it comes to the GF schools and high school hockey. Interest in the game at the youth level is not growing much statewide. Look at the Grafton program. They are having trouble filling out rosters at the lower levels. The advent of the new Bismarck Legacy school and the new West Fargo school will further water down those programs in Bismarck and West Fargo. That will kill any chance of any school in Bismarck or West Fargo to make a run at a title just like it did when Davies came in and ruined you precious Fargo South squad. Speaking of your Fargo South squad of 2004-2007...I am guessing the reason they fizzled out is because Fargo doesn't have the coaching assets or the facilities and training such as the hockey academy that GF does. You said yourself in a prior post that GF always excelled at the High School level because of better coaching then Fargo. GF also takes advantage of its outdoor ice which is huge in the development of players as the best players were always outdoor rink rats growing up. Climate dictates that the other ND schools cannot utilize outdoor ice like GF can. So Dave tell me how the other cities going to catch up to GF teams that are dominating at the lower levels? Superior coaching...don't think so. Better training facilites...nope. More outdoor ice...no way. You stated it before that Grand Forks kids get better with age and that will continue, so the gap which is wide now will get wider. GF has superior coaching, training facilities, and outdoor ice advantages over the rest of the state. Couple that with the new schools that will water down talent in all major markets except GF and there is no possible way the rest of the state can catch up. The fact that GF is heads above the competition at the lower levels now and has those advantages for the future makes your prediction hopeless. Quote
BobIwabuchiFan Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 My personal experience from living in EGF for the last 10 years is that the kids are about 95% Sioux Fans and 5% MN fans; I would put the parents at about 75% Sioux fans and 25% MN fans. The big boon for Sioux Fans has been the two EGF players who are currently on the roster for the Sioux...So many times have their little brothers or family members brought whole teams of squirts or peewees to meet these guys and see the facilities....Every kid walks out of that meeting wanting to be a Sioux hockey player. Additionally, the head coach is an ex-Sioux and one of the Bantam coaches is an ex-Sioux player...it's definitely Sioux country in EGF. Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 And yet in spite of all of this entitlement garbage that you're spewing, the rest of the state has been winning state hockey championships more frequently in recent years than they did in previous generations. No matter how hard you spin, it is impossible for you to make that fact untrue. Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 What entitlement? Are you calling history, fact, and logic entitlement? Nice spin Dave, I think the topic of that post was the future... Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 Regarding the underlined part of your post, I failed to address that specific point in my previous reply. Considering that I find it to be a relevant point, I feel the need to comment on it but first I have to ask you one question just to verify that I am understanding your point as you intended it... Are you saying that there is more to comparing the success of one team to the success of another team than just merely championships won and nothing else? Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 Of course there is more, especially at the high school level. Team A kicks teams B's butt 23 times in a row but Team B finally beats them and it is in a championship game to break the streak...the first championship ever for team B. Team A has 25 championships. Dave are telling me Team B is the better program then team A?(insert GF Central as team A and Minot as Team B) Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 Great, so what you're essentially telling me is all this "7>5" garbage that some people here like to spew is complete nonsense. Thank you!!! Quote
ksixpack Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 When 2 teams like MN and ND that are both powers and have been very competitive for many years that could be one very strong measuring stick. Dave I think everyone is tiring of this petty bickering so I am going to leave you with this... Stop the envy you have for GF hockey, GF hockey is not that good, especially when compared to MN high school hockey. We only look good to you because of the lack of competition in ND, competition that is sadly only going to get worse... Quote
MafiaMan Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Can we get a separate thread for the "Grand Forks vs DaveK" discussion? That'd be great. Heard a rumor that St Cloud Apollo will not be fielding a team next year...anyone have any insight on this? Bump Quote
jdub27 Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 No, you can't have it both ways. You were right, there is more to it than just championships alone. A strong case could be made for either MN or ND depending on what criteria you decide to use. People who go around using that "7>5" garbage to "prove" their point are morons. To be fair, a Michigan fan would be a moron too by throwing around "9>7" in an attempt to claim superiority. It's just childish trash-talking, and I am glad that you made a point that gave me the opportunity to finally expose that bunk for what it is. But apparently you can? You claim that Grand Forks hasn't been dominant because they've only won 1 title out of the last 4. But yet they've had a team in the championship game 3 out of the those 4 years and 8 out of the last 9. So which is it? You're claiming Grand Forks isn't superior because 3>1 but then call anyone else who does it with UND/UM a moron. Spin, spin, spin.... Quote
Blackheart Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 But apparently you can? You claim that Grand Forks hasn't been dominant because they've only won 1 title out of the last 4. But yet they've had a team in the championship game 3 out of the those 4 years and 8 out of the last 9. So which is it? You're claiming Grand Forks isn't superior because 3>1 but then call anyone else who does it with UND/UM a moron. Spin, spin, spin....good luck using logic in a conversation with Dave Quote
jdub27 Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Apples to oranges. In one case (MN vs. ND) I'm comparing the history of each program while in the other example (high school hockey) I am discussing recent trends and how different things have been in recent years compared to previous generations. In one case, your saying championships doesn't determine who is better (dominant). In the other, you're saying that championships determines who is dominant (better). Gotcha. Quote
jdub27 Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Clearly what I said went way over your head. In one case I'm saying there is more to comparing one team to another than just championships and championships alone. In the other case I am saying that trends of previous generations are going the way of the dinosaur and a new era is upon us. Nowhere did I say that the GF schools no longer have the best overall history and tradition (they still do), what I did say is that they no longer win championships as frequently as they used to. There is more to comparing teams' histories than just championships in every case of comparing histories, but the problem with your incredibly lame attempt at a cutesy little smarta$$ remark is the fact that I'm not even comparing histories in both cases. Like I said, those two topics are like apples to oranges. You can't use the same answer for both of them because they do not share the same question.If it's apples to oranges, why did you find the need to make a specific post addressing it and then multiple posts about it? Do ever get dizzy spinning yourself in circles? 1 Quote
90siouxfan Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Can't help but throw fuel on the fire...Hockey Academy @ REA @REHockeyAcademy · 1h1 hour ago Grand Forks, NDIn Bantam A action, Sugarkings lost to Fargo in the 3rd place game & Wheatkings beat Bismarck in ot to finish 5th Quote
sioux rube Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 Can't help but throw fuel on the fire... Hockey Academy @ REA @REHockeyAcademy · 1h1 hour ago Grand Forks, ND In Bantam A action, Sugarkings lost to Fargo in the 3rd place game & Wheatkings beat Bismarck in ot to finish 5th And their number 1 bantam team plays Minnesota and Canadien teams. Not even in the tourney. Quote
SiouxVolley Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Can't help but throw fuel on the fire...Hockey Academy @ REA @REHockeyAcademy · 1h1 hour ago Grand Forks, NDIn Bantam A action, Sugarkings lost to Fargo in the 3rd place game & Wheatkings beat Bismarck in ot to finish 5th Thought Gf was the only city in ND with a AA Bantam team? Quote
ksixpack Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Can't help but throw fuel on the fire... Hockey Academy @ REA @REHockeyAcademy · 1h1 hour ago Grand Forks, ND In Bantam A action, Sugarkings lost to Fargo in the 3rd place game & Wheatkings beat Bismarck in ot to finish 5th Quote
ksixpack Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 GF started a AA bantam team this year. They are they best 16 kids...put 8 of those kids each of the A teams that compete at the state tourney and they both dominate and easily beat all teams in ND...wouldn't even be close 1 Quote
SiouxVolley Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Mayvile-Portland hockey booster club proposed that the May-Port CG school board sponsor hockey by co-oping with neighboring districts. The school board voted down the proposal, 6-3, with Title IX and transportation being issues. The booster club would have paid for hockey expenses.Watford City is officially going Class A next year. Their enrollment has been over the Class B limit for two years. Quote
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