WHL vs College Hockey (Tambellini)

[willistonalum]

I am not very familiar with the difference in quality level of the WHL compared to Division I College Hockey.  The reason I am asking for an explanation I noticed ex-Sioux player Tambellini  in 27 games played this year has 28 points, +12.  Could he have contributed like this if he had stayed at UND?  Was it a better move for him to advance his hockey career to leave and play in WHL with Calgary Hitman? 

[scpa0305]

I am not very familiar with the difference in quality level of the WHL compared to Division I College Hockey.  The reason I am asking for an explanation I noticed ex-Sioux player Tambellini  in 27 games played this year has 28 points, +12.  Could he have contributed like this if he had stayed at UND?  Was it a better move for him to advance his hockey career to leave and play in WHL with Calgary Hitman? 

Who knows.  Tough to tell.  I'm guessing he would have been a pretty good player for UND this year.  Oh well though.

 

As for the difference between CHL and NCAA, the CHL has more high end prospects (on average) while the NCAA has older, more mature, players.  Neither option is the best option, it all depends on what you are looking for.

[SiouxTupa]

1. I think most here feel he could have made a jump in production during the 2nd half of last season. That could have translated to some good numbers this year. It's far from a given, however, and he would have had to work hard for it.

 

2. Was it a better move? That's between him and his agent/drafting team. He'll get more games, but less practice time. The players are typically younger and less physically mature in major juniors. 

 

I feel happy for him that he's contributing, and hope he does make it to the NHL at some point. If it only takes a couple years, like JT Miller, then it was probably a good move. 

[Siouxman]

I am not very familiar with the difference in quality level of the WHL compared to Division I College Hockey.  The reason I am asking for an explanation I noticed ex-Sioux player Tambellini  in 27 games played this year has 28 points, +12.  Could he have contributed like this if he had stayed at UND?  Was it a better move for him to advance his hockey career to leave and play in WHL with Calgary Hitman?

It is hard to tell. He is definitely contributing on the offensive side, but may be coming up short on the defensive side. Someone with 28 points should be more than +12 in my mind, but +/- is not necessarily an individual statistic.

For comparison against current Sioux forwards. I've done some multiplying to get close to Tambellini's number of games or points

Parks 15 games, 16 points, +10 (If you double that you get 30 games, 32 points, and +20)

Caggiula 15 games, 20 points, +9 (if you double that you get 30 games, 40 points, and +18)

Chyzyk 11 games, 5 points, +5 (If you triple that you get 33 games, 15 points, and +15)

Poganski 11 games, 3 points, +2 (If you triple that you get 33 games, 9 points, and +6)

Simonson 14 games, 3 points, +2 (if you double that you get 28 games 6 points, and +4)

St. Clair 12 games, 3 points, +2( if you take it times 2.5 you get 30 games, 7.5 points, and +5)

On average of those players, the +/- should be about 60% of points, so Tambellini should be at about +17 or more. Again, that is just a rough comparison because +/- is not completely an individual statistic. But it appears Tambellini may be a little short on the defensive side. If he was playing at UND and forced to also contribute more on the defensive side his +/- ratio to points would be better but total points would be less.

[Redneksioux]

Could he be getting more time on the pk than the pp?

[Ray77]

Could he be getting more time on the pk than the pp?

+/- is a stat that is recorded only for even strength goals.  So getting scored on during the PK or scoring on a PP does not effect +/-.

[I Ranger]

It is hard to tell. He is definitely contributing on the offensive side, but may be coming up short on the defensive side. Someone with 28 points should be more than +12 in my mind, but +/- is not necessarily an individual statistic.

For comparison against current Sioux forwards. I've done some multiplying to get close to Tambellini's number of games or points

Parks 15 games, 16 points, +10 (If you double that you get 30 games, 32 points, and +20)

Caggiula 15 games, 20 points, +9 (if you double that you get 30 games, 40 points, and +18)

Chyzyk 11 games, 5 points, +5 (If you triple that you get 33 games, 15 points, and +15)

Poganski 11 games, 3 points, +2 (If you triple that you get 33 games, 9 points, and +6)

Simonson 14 games, 3 points, +2 (if you double that you get 28 games 6 points, and +4)

St. Clair 12 games, 3 points, +2( if you take it times 2.5 you get 30 games, 7.5 points, and +5)

On average of those players, the +/- should be about 60% of points, so Tambellini should be at about +17 or more. Again, that is just a rough comparison because +/- is not completely an individual statistic. But it appears Tambellini may be a little short on the defensive side. If he was playing at UND and forced to also contribute more on the defensive side his +/- ratio to points would be better but total points would be less.

There's is a lot more that plays into a player's +/- than simply points such as team he plays on, line he plays on, teams schedule to date, etc. For instance if you took the same numbers from the previous year's Sioux team at this state in the season, most of the player's +/- I assume would look pretty bad. I think +/- is a very overrated stat.

[Siouxman]

There's is a lot more that plays into a player's +/- than simply points such as team he plays on, line he plays on, teams schedule to date, etc. For instance if you took the same numbers from the previous year's Sioux team at this state in the season, most of the player's +/- I assume would look pretty bad. I think +/- is a very overrated stat.

Obviously they would be much lower. UND was 4-7-2 at this time last year, and not 10-3-2

[scpa0305]

It is hard to tell. He is definitely contributing on the offensive side, but may be coming up short on the defensive side. Someone with 28 points should be more than +12 in my mind, but +/- is not necessarily an individual statistic.

For comparison against current Sioux forwards. I've done some multiplying to get close to Tambellini's number of games or points

Parks 15 games, 16 points, +10 (If you double that you get 30 games, 32 points, and +20)

Caggiula 15 games, 20 points, +9 (if you double that you get 30 games, 40 points, and +18)

Chyzyk 11 games, 5 points, +5 (If you triple that you get 33 games, 15 points, and +15)

Poganski 11 games, 3 points, +2 (If you triple that you get 33 games, 9 points, and +6)

Simonson 14 games, 3 points, +2 (if you double that you get 28 games 6 points, and +4)

St. Clair 12 games, 3 points, +2( if you take it times 2.5 you get 30 games, 7.5 points, and +5)

On average of those players, the +/- should be about 60% of points, so Tambellini should be at about +17 or more. Again, that is just a rough comparison because +/- is not completely an individual statistic. But it appears Tambellini may be a little short on the defensive side. If he was playing at UND and forced to also contribute more on the defensive side his +/- ratio to points would be better but total points would be less.

+12 is actually good.

[scpa0305]

There's is a lot more that plays into a player's +/- than simply points such as team he plays on, line he plays on, teams schedule to date, etc. For instance if you took the same numbers from the previous year's Sioux team at this state in the season, most of the player's +/- I assume would look pretty bad. I think +/- is a very overrated stat.

All your points are spot on, however I do think +/- is a valuable stat.  Tambo's #12 is good though. 

[I Ranger]

Obviously they would be much lower. UND was 4-7-2 at this time last year, and not 10-3-2

Exactly my point. Just looking at someone's +/- without digging any deeper doesn't mean squat.

[dagies]

I'm no expert but as already stated the WHL has a lot of high end talent and younger kids.  IMO that means highly talented players have a chance to put up a lot of points.  My guess is that a good player will likely put up more points in the WHL than at the D1 level.

 

I doubt Tambellini would be a point per game player this year at the D1 level, but you never know.  And it doesn't mean he wouldn't be as good as he is now.  Just harder to put up points at the D1 level, IMO.

[siouxnami]

The issue was the guy was a bean pole like many freshman are.  Throw on 20 pounds and a year of experience and I think he is a legit top 6 forward.  The CHL is more of a scoring league, while the NCAA focuses more on coaching and preparation.  That said I would hate to have someone around who didn't bleed Sioux...

[SiouxForever]

The issue was the guy was a bean pole like many freshman are. Throw on 20 pounds and a year of experience and I think he is a legit top 6 forward. The CHL is more of a scoring league, while the NCAA focuses more on coaching and preparation. That said I would hate to have someone around who didn't bleed Sioux...

I wonder how this kid feels when he saw that horrible UND team make the frozen four. In addition, this horrible UND team this year that is #1 in the country in the Polls (I know they''re just polls and it is only Dec).

He made a quick choice to bolt for various reasons, but a lot of those reasons are on him. He needed some weight on him. He reminded my of Brock Nelson as a freshie. I still feel that Tambo quit way too early. Oh, well...

Edited December 2, 2014 by SiouxForever

[sprig]

He made a quick choice to bolt for various reasons, but a lot of those reasons are on him. He needed some weight on him. He reminded my of Brock Nelson as a freshie. I still feel that Tambo quit way too early. Oh, well...

Same way I think, a Brock Nelson as a freshman that may have developed into a Brock Nelson junior, etc. But if the reports are true that he wanted/thought he deserved PP and PK time then it's good he left. There were better options on that team for special team play (older/stronger players) than Tambo at that point. Make me think it was all about "me" and not team at all. Wonder how he interacted with his teamates during that first semester.

 

Must have thought that he would fast track to the NHL, we'll see how that works out for him. I think he'll age out of juniors before getting his chance, He better be strong and good by then or he'll be in the AHL or lower trying to improve his game/strength to get where he want's to be. There are few places better to do that than at UND with the facilities here. Playing lots of games make it harder to develop in those other areas.

[scpa0305]

The issue was the guy was a bean pole like many freshman are.  Throw on 20 pounds and a year of experience and I think he is a legit top 6 forward.  The CHL is more of a scoring league, while the NCAA focuses more on coaching and preparation.  That said I would hate to have someone around who didn't bleed Sioux...

I am definitely not a CHL guy nor am I a fan of their recruiting practices, however, there is definitely a misconception on this forum about those leagues.  First off, the reason there is more scoring is because most teams are top heavy (first rounders playing against kids who will never make it past the CHL, in some cases players with NHL experience playing against 17 year old kids who are very average).  Secondly, these kids do have time to work out and the coaching is very very good. It is arguably the best NHL development league for 16-20 year olds in the world.  However, it really depends on when kids "figure it out".  Poolman is a great example.  He figured the game out at an older age so playing a few years of NCAA hockey will help him out if he wants to give pro hockey a try in the future.

 

To me, if I was a bigger kid with potential, however I really needed to work on my offensive game (Michael McCarron) I think the CHL leagues would develop me quicker than NCAA hockey (depending on which conference you played in I guess).  If I was an extremely gifted offensive player and would put up roughly 2 points per game at any level under the NHL/AHL I would go the NCAA route to continue to develop against bigger, faster, stronger players (ex. Nic Petan).  Some of those kids in the CHL leagues put up so many points it's nuts and they continually are sent back to the CHL where they have absolutely nothing else to prove.  They are almost stuck in limbo. 

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Given what I know, which is limited, he and his family have a goal of professional hockey and his agent/team was the big decider in him pulling out from UND and going CHL.  I can't hold that against anyone who is chasing their dream and yes I wish he could have stayed at UND to develop just like I wish Parise and Toews would have have been 4 year players, but as the sport grows and talent shows up these expectations have to be adjusted to fit the players hopes and wishes, not the fans...IMO.

[siouxnami]

Brock's junior year was legendary...  And by that I mean it was a legend since it never actually happened. 

 

Same way I think, a Brock Nelson as a freshman that may have developed into a Brock Nelson junior, etc. But if the reports are true that he wanted/thought he deserved PP and PK time then it's good he left. There were better options on that team for special team play (older/stronger players) than Tambo at that point. Make me think it was all about "me" and not team at all. Wonder how he interacted with his teamates during that first semester.

 

Must have thought that he would fast track to the NHL, we'll see how that works out for him. I think he'll age out of juniors before getting his chance, He better be strong and good by then or he'll be in the AHL or lower trying to improve his game/strength to get where he want's to be. There are few places better to do that than at UND with the facilities here. Playing lots of games make it harder to develop in those other areas.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Excellent write up from Justin Bourne on his decision between junior and college.  

 

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/05/11/my-experience-with-the-choice-between-major-junior-and-college-hockey/

[scpa0305]

Excellent write up from Justin Bourne on his decision between junior and college.  

 

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/05/11/my-experience-with-the-choice-between-major-junior-and-college-hockey/

Agreed I have always liked that one too.

[sprig]

Brock's junior year was legendary... And by that I mean it was a legend since it never actually happened.

Thought he stayed 3. Was it just 2. In that case his sophmore year was very good. He's proven that was a good time for him to leave, whenever that was.

[Cratter]

I would happen to guess that the expansion and exposure of college hockey (AZ State/PAC 12 hockey) might just be what keeps tipping the scales toward USA college hockey over major juniors.

Like many have said. Go to major juniors to pad your stats rather than playing against bigger more physically mature college players. But the problem is there are only so many scholarships currently available at the college level any given year.

[yzerman19]

Major junior is faster and more like the pro game. College is against older, bigger, stronger players. Major junior is a showcase, college is about physical and emotional development...

[yzerman19]

The very best will produce in either league. To make the CHL bet, you better be at least 5'10 and be faster and have better hands than any of the kids +/- 3 years from you when you're 16

[Goon]

Thought he stayed 3. Was it just 2. In that case his sophmore year was very good. He's proven that was a good time for him to leave, whenever that was.

 

Brock only played two seasons IRC.