MafiaMan Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Roosevelt had about as much to do with the founding of UND in 1883 as the Standing Rock and Spirit Lake Sioux Nations did. I have a hard time believing some of the good folks who will eventually populate this nickname-selection committee will go along with a future UND nickname that "honors" war-mongering white guys (along with, egads, segregated units of "colored" soldiers) who used guns to kill Spanish soldiers. Monarch Butterflies, Blizzard, and Sparkly Unicorns all score quite high on the "it won't offend anyone" scale. Quote
Chewey Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 The surrender agreement specifies against using "Fighting Sioux" and does not contain language such as "any derivations thereof", etc., so "Sioux" is not technically prohibited as per the language, if my memory serves me correctly. There would be some who would, of course, argue that such a nickname would violate "the spirit of the agreement". Quote
yababy8 Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 No, my question is not ridiculous. If UND was going to give in to the NCAA why didn't it close the deal right away, ala Arkansas State. This pussy-footing around and letting it fester for years, approaching a decade, is good for no one. To be clear, my view on the matter is: I don't have to agree with it; Hell, I don't even have to like it; but I have to deal with it because it is the reality. We are not dealing with reality. Kudos to Arkansas State for dealing with reality and moving on. Your assertion that UND should have jumped in as opposed to the slow wade if reasonable. I don't personally agree with it but it is a fair position. You comparison with Arkansas state where you cite how they just did it so we should too draws one to a similarity in situation that is ridiculous (please don't digress this into a rhetorical debate about the comparative differential value between different schools nicknames. We all know the Sioux name is a significant part of the steep tradition of Sioux hockey.) It is on this level that your question was ridiculous. Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Roosevelt had about as much to do with the founding of UND in 1883 as the Standing Rock and Spirit Lake Sioux Nations did. Not sure what you're getting at here... I think Sioux have a greater connection to the region than a cavalry unit that trained in the southwest before embarking on the first Cuban reality series, entitled "Dude, Where's My Horse?" It just seems you're grasping at straws to connect rough riders to North Dakota. If you like the name rough riders, fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But people liking the name rough riders because it is part of North Dakota heritage is just plain inaccurate and false. Quote
jdub27 Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 No, my question is not ridiculous. If UND was going to give in to the NCAA why didn't it close the deal right away, ala Arkansas State. This pussy-footing around and letting it fester for years, approaching a decade, is good for no one. To be clear, my view on the matter is: I don't have to agree with it; Hell, I don't even have to like it; but I have to deal with it because it is the reality. We are not dealing with reality. Kudos to Arkansas State for dealing with reality and moving on. Guessing Arkansas's state legislature didn't get involved... 1 Quote
darell1976 Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 If UND would have retired the name per the original agreement (Nov 30, 2010) add 6 weeks of choosing a new name (ala Arkansas St), that would take us to Jan 2011 with a new name, this upcoming season would've been UND's 4th season with the new nickname...would it have grown on people? Some yes, some no, and some would be leaning towards it. Quote
Blackheart Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Instead we've had 4 more years to be known as the Sioux, albeit informally. Quote
darell1976 Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Instead we've had 4 more years to be known as the Sioux, albeit informally. Or 4 years of guessing what the name could be and how worse that name could be as well Quote
Fetch Posted August 6, 2014 Author Posted August 6, 2014 The surrender agreement specifies against using "Fighting Sioux" and does not contain language such as "any derivations thereof", etc., so "Sioux" is not technically prohibited as per the language, if my memory serves me correctly. There would be some who would, of course, argue that such a nickname would violate "the spirit of the agreement". So my original thought of SPIRIT with the question of weather the logo could be kept if we went with Spirit- are you saying it possibly could ? Quote
Blackheart Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Or 4 years of guessing what the name could be and how worse that name could be as well Well yeah, if you want to worry about the potential new name, feel free...unless you're part of the decision making process for the new name, and God only knows what that mess will look like, there's not much we can say or do to impact the choice...hope I'm wrong but I'm guessing not. Quote
Blackheart Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 So my original thought of SPIRIT with the question of weather the logo could be kept if we went with Spirit- are you saying it possibly could ? No way to keep the logo as Native American imagery of any kind gets the thumbs down from the NCAA. (unless you have tribal approval, in UNDs case, two tribes approval needed) Quote
darell1976 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Well yeah, if you want to worry about the potential new name, feel free...unless you're part of the decision making process for the new name, and God only knows what that mess will look like, there's not much we can say or do to impact the choice...hope I'm wrong but I'm guessing not. I just can't wait til it's over. The longer this festers the worse the pain gets. Quote
Fetch Posted August 7, 2014 Author Posted August 7, 2014 Well lets try it & see - Ask them What is this congress ? Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 How about the UND Spirit Lake Sioux. Have them vote again if needed, give them a generous percentage of merchandise sales. Have someone from Spirit Lake design a similar but new logo. Quote
MafiaMan Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 So my original thought of SPIRIT with the question of weather the logo could be kept if we went with Spirit- are you saying it possibly could ? If the NCAA got its undies in a bunch over William & Mary's feather attached to its "W&M" logo, imagine how bad the hammer would come down on "Spirit" with an Indian-head logo? 1 Quote
Fetch Posted August 7, 2014 Author Posted August 7, 2014 This is part of the reason we lost last time - too many gave up & the right people did not ask the right questions Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 This is part of the reason we lost last time - too many gave up & the right people did not ask the right questions The NCAA policy says no Native American nicknames or imagery. That means zero, none, nada, not going to happen. The logo falls under imagery. As a part of the settlement agreement, UND agreed to follow the NCAA policy. They didn't just agree to quit using Fighting Sioux, they agreed to follow the NCAA policy. That means UND can't use any Native American nickname or logo of any kind, not the old ones and not any new ones. The NCAA has also stated that they are not going to approve any exceptions to this policy other than the ones that already have approval. There will not be any new Native American nicknames used by any NCAA member schools. It doesn't matter how many times you ask the question, or who asks the question. UND can not use any Native American nickname or logo if they want to remain a member of the NCAA, and there are no good alternatives to being a member of the NCAA. It is time to start looking at alternatives, not live in the past. 4 Quote
darell1976 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 The NCAA policy says no Native American nicknames or imagery. That means zero, none, nada, not going to happen. The logo falls under imagery. As a part of the settlement agreement, UND agreed to follow the NCAA policy. They didn't just agree to quit using Fighting Sioux, they agreed to follow the NCAA policy. That means UND can't use any Native American nickname or logo of any kind, not the old ones and not any new ones. The NCAA has also stated that they are not going to approve any exceptions to this policy other than the ones that already have approval. There will not be any new Native American nicknames used by any NCAA member schools. It doesn't matter how many times you ask the question, or who asks the question. UND can not use any Native American nickname or logo if they want to remain a member of the NCAA, and there are no good alternatives to being a member of the NCAA. It is time to start looking at alternatives, not live in the past. ^^^^^^ this!!! 1 Quote
yababy8 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 We will always be the Sioux. All the rules in the world will not change that. In case anyone hasn't been keeping up with current events, if you take the media out of it, that is what we call ourselves, it is what others call us, it is what we are. Its our name, Plain and Simple- don't believe me- go to a hockey game. Sioux yeah yeah!, and the home of the Sioux, you're in Sioux country!! if anyone thinks a new nickname is going to change that for Sioux fans they are just plain stupid. -oh the media will tell you differently just like 82Siouxguy and fightingsioux4life but don't listen to them talk to the people sitting next to you at the game... 1 Quote
DamStrait Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Some seem to be arguing that any new nickname would be better than having none - I disagree, I think it depends entirely on what the new nickname choices will be. I would be satisfied if after the list of choices has been decided upon that "continue remaining only as the University of North Dakota" is added to it. Of course for that to be meaningful, those voting on it would have to be a suitably wide cross section of those with real interest in UND and its athletic programs. I fear that will not be the case - I suspect President Kelley will choose a voting populace that is sure to give him exactly the name he wants, and that there will be no real "choices" - which is to say that a safe majority of those that will be allowed to vote on the issue will be vastly more concerned with confirming their PC credentials than with what is truly in the best interests of UND and its athletic programs. 1 Quote
Shawn-O Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 We will always be the Sioux. All the rules in the world will not change that. In case anyone hasn't been keeping up with current events, if you take the media out of it, that is what we call ourselves, it is what others call us, it is what we are. Its our name, Plain and Simple- don't believe me- go to a hockey game. Sioux yeah yeah!, and the home of the Sioux, you're in Sioux country!! if anyone thinks a new nickname is going to change that for Sioux fans they are just plain stupid. -oh the media will tell you differently just like 82Siouxguy and fightingsioux4life but don't listen to them talk to the people sitting next to you at the game... All the people in the stands are very nice.... They like the Sioux very much.... 2 Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 We will always be the Sioux. All the rules in the world will not change that. In case anyone hasn't been keeping up with current events, if you take the media out of it, that is what we call ourselves, it is what others call us, it is what we are. Its our name, Plain and Simple- don't believe me- go to a hockey game. Sioux yeah yeah!, and the home of the Sioux, you're in Sioux country!! if anyone thinks a new nickname is going to change that for Sioux fans they are just plain stupid. -oh the media will tell you differently just like 82Siouxguy and fightingsioux4life but don't listen to them talk to the people sitting next to you at the game... You can throw stones at us all you want, but it doesn't change the facts. And unfortunately, those facts aren't in our favor. I have a closet full of Sioux gear and I will continue wearing it wherever and whenever I want (screw the PC zealots that want to ban it from campus). I also bought three customized Sioux hockey jerseys before they ran out, which cost me over $1,000. So challenge my loyalty and commitment to this institution at your own peril. Quote
Goon Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Some seem to be arguing that any new nickname would be better than having none - I disagree, I think it depends entirely on what the new nickname choices will be. I would be satisfied if after the list of choices has been decided upon that "continue remaining only as the University of North Dakota" is added to it. Of course for that to be meaningful, those voting on it would have to be a suitably wide cross section of those with real interest in UND and its athletic programs. I fear that will not be the case - I suspect President Kelley will choose a voting populace that is sure to give him exactly the name he wants, and that there will be no real "choices" - which is to say that a safe majority of those that will be allowed to vote on the issue will be vastly more concerned with confirming their PC credentials than with what is truly in the best interests of UND and its athletic programs. Yep, and this will be how we end up with a stupid name like Sun Dogs... 1 Quote
Shawn-O Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Yep, and this will be how we end up with a stupid name like Sun Dogs... You've been zoned in on that one for a while now. You know something we don't? Quote
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