Future UND/ Bison football Game

[UND-FB-FAN]

You can't really take credit for a "close game" against a Fresno State team that eventually wound up with a 4-9 record, can you? That was the same 2011-2012 season that included a "revenge match" game against NAIA Sioux Falls. North Dakota bounced back from what should be considered the most embarrassing loss in school history two seasons earlier with a 15-13 "thumping" of the Cougars. I think staying close with a San Diego State team in 2012 that wound up at 9-4 - and had wins over Boise State and Air Force - was more impressive. Of course, that season also included giving up 55 points against both EWU and Montana State and an end-of-season loss to Northern Colorado.

Mussman's teams were all quite inconsistent. He never installed proper discipline because he certainly lacked leadership ability. Of course, the talent and scheme/philosophy was also a bit down.

[The Sicatoka]

Ive done it before. The ones who are blind will stay blind. Regardless of venue. I still dont see the relevance in my post to Siouxguy82 and BV. Unless your point is childish finger pointing?

Bisonville is great. It gives me wonderful insights to how "Cpl. Joe Bauers" must've felt when he awoke.

(Some of you will get the reference. )

[nd1sufan]

And the level of football that NDSU requires to secure a home and home. We'll let know when UND wins 4 games in 2 consecutive seasons, last time that happened for UND was 1942 and 1945. (no games in 43 and 44 due to WWII) In case you are wondering when NDSU had 4 wins in 2 consecutive seasons total...1962-63. They (NDSU) has had 4 ZERO win seasons since 1949, the last one in 1962. UND has NEVER had a ZERO win season. History is sure fun.

We're not talking about the 40's, 60's or even the 2000's. We are talking about today and you comparing UND to Weber State is quite telling.

Like Jeremy Jorgenson said on Kolpack and Izzo yesterday. They don't hear any clamoring to play this game. He said NDSU sees playing UND in 2015 as filling an open date, while UND sees it as something much bigger than that.

[fightingsioux4life]

We're not talking about the 40's, 60's or even the 2000's. We are talking about today and you comparing UND to Weber State is quite telling.

Like Jeremy Jorgenson said on Kolpack and Izzo yesterday. They don't hear any clamoring to play this game. He said NDSU sees playing UND in 2015 as filling an open date, while UND sees it as something much bigger than that.

A very gross generalization. I for one am not clamoring to play FU again and there are a decent number of people in our fan base that feel the same way. And I am definitely not in favor of Faison genuflecting to the FBS wanna-bes in Fargo.

[nd1sufan]

A very gross generalization. I for one am not clamoring to play FU again and there are a decent number of people in our fan base that feel the same way. And I am definitely not in favor of Faison genuflecting to the FBS wanna-bes in Fargo.

Well apparently it's bigger to Faison or Bubba than it is to NDSU and Klieman, otherwise the issue would be dead.

[UND1983]

We're not talking about the 40's, 60's or even the 2000's. We are talking about today and you comparing UND to Weber State is quite telling.

Like Jeremy Jorgenson said on Kolpack and Izzo yesterday. They don't hear any clamoring to play this game. He said NDSU sees playing UND in 2015 as filling an open date, while UND sees it as something much bigger than that.

Of course not, things are going well. Plus, the old guard of the Teammakers are calling the shots and don't want the game because they hate UND worse than anything, ever. It won't be long until they try to get their teeth into the new AD, also. Alot of idle threats coming from them, just like the worthless threats UND got from their alumni when the name thing went down.

The way this whole thing went down with Gene, having to send that last email on his way out the door, said alot about his character makeup and flaws. He would rather leave NDSU than schedule UND. And yes, I think that played a small part in him leaving. It had been 12 years and he still was mad/bitter, much like your fanbase.

[Siouxperman8]

Well apparently it's bigger to Faison or Bubba than it is to NDSU and Klieman, otherwise the issue would be dead.

Apparently it is bigger to you than it is to me and many on here. I don't care if we play ever again and because of that I don't ever visit any of the Bison fan sites. Exactly why are you on here if it is not a big deal for you and your fan base? If you go away you won't ever have to worry about what is said on here.

[Hayduke]

Apparently it is bigger to you than it is to me and many on here. I don't care if we play ever again and because of that I don't ever visit any of the Bison fan sites. Exactly why are you on here if it is not a big deal for you and your fan base? If you go away you won't ever have to worry about what is said on here.

Let me respond for him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T575Pbo4eWM

[nd1sufan]

Of course not, things are going well. Plus, the old guard of the Teammakers are calling the shots and don't want the game because they hate UND worse than anything, ever. It won't be long until they try to get their teeth into the new AD, also. Alot of idle threats coming from them, just like the worthless threats UND got from their alumni when the name thing went down.

The way this whole thing went down with Gene, having to send that last email on his way out the door, said alot about his character makeup and flaws. He would rather leave NDSU than schedule UND. And yes, I think that played a small part in him leaving. It had been 12 years and he still was mad/bitter, much like your fanbase.

I still haven't heard one legitimate reason the GT should have backed down and given UND a h/h series. As for all of the screaming of "but they are playing Weber State", Weber did help out NDSU during the transition years by playing a home and home when they didn't have to and had little to gain from it while others did not. Why not return the favor by playing in Ogden this year and giving the Weber administration one game they can promote and get their fans excited for by playing the 3-time defending champions?

[82SiouxGuy]

I agree with a majority of what you say. I think as time went on the playing field--as in wants and needs changed from year to year as NDSU became more successfull. Because of that changing landscape it became more difficult to even try and move to the middle. I dont think even at that ponit GT was opposed to the game in as much as not wanting to play the game in GF.

Even with open records there are way too many gaps and no actual records of conversations or copies of actual drafts of contracts. If there were I would have thought those would have been brought forward and GTs feet held to the fire.

But I dont see how you can say GT wasnt bargaining in good faith when he offered a H/H one time deal. BF turned it down because he wanted a game every year. If BF would have accepted that deal from the get go we wouldnt be where we are now.

ps I appreciate the level headed conversation!

The difference is that I don't believe GT would have followed through with the H/H deal. He changed the terms during negotiations many times after that, so there is no doubt in my mind that he would have changed the terms again before signing that deal. We just would have gotten to the 2 games in Fargo with no games in Grand Forks proposal much quicker. I'm surprised that he didn't propose UND paying for the opportunity to play NDSU.

[bison73]

Of course not, things are going well. Plus, the old guard of the Teammakers are calling the shots and don't want the game because they hate UND worse than anything, ever. It won't be long until they try to get their teeth into the new AD, also. Alot of idle threats coming from them, just like the worthless threats UND got from their alumni when the name thing went down.

The way this whole thing went down with Gene, having to send that last email on his way out the door, said alot about his character makeup and flaws. He would rather leave NDSU than schedule UND. And yes, I think that played a small part in him leaving. It had been 12 years and he still was mad/bitter, much like your fanbase.

Of course not, things are going well. Plus, the old guard of the Teammakers are calling the shots and don't want the game because they hate UND worse than anything, ever. It won't be long until they try to get their teeth into the new AD, also. Alot of idle threats coming from them, just like the worthless threats UND got from their alumni when the name thing went down.

The way this whole thing went down with Gene, having to send that last email on his way out the door, said alot about his character makeup and flaws. He would rather leave NDSU than schedule UND. And yes, I think that played a small part in him leaving. It had been 12 years and he still was mad/bitter, much like your fanbase.

What email was that?

[UND1983]

I still haven't heard one legitimate reason the GT should have backed down and given UND a h/h series. As for all of the screaming of "but they are playing Weber State", Weber did help out NDSU during the transition years by playing a home and home when they didn't have to and had little to gain from it while others did not. Why not return the favor by playing in Ogden this year and giving the Weber administration one game they can promote and get their fans excited for by playing the 3-time defending champions?

Oh, so GT was doing it because he is a great guy who rewards his buddies. We all believe that. Has nothing to do with his past scheduling model of play mediocre/bad OOC teams, right? Which UND should fall right into I believe.

Nobody said he should have done a straight home and home. Just come out and say you don't want to schedule UND because you are mad at them from 12 years ago. Instead he just kept lying and changing offers and not responding.

[UND1983]

What email was that?

July 28th. He was completely done with his job but couldn't help himself.

[The Sicatoka]

What email was that?

May 2014: GT offers $125k for one game in Fargo for 2015. BF declines.

July 2014: Just before leaving for Iowa, GT informs BF that the single game deal is off the table. Only deal on table is the two-game Fargo deal for 2015 and 2018/19.

I'm wondering if that came from Taylor or from his boss. I guess we'd know if Faison asked Acting AD Prakesh Mathew to go back the the home-and-home that nearly happened in April of 2011 (adjusting the date as 2017 has since been filled by a far away, out of footprint, Big Sky school).

April 2011: GT offers two-game Fargo/GF deal for 2015 & 2017. BF agrees in principle, mentions meeting in person to iron out details. Nothing happens. (this is the email exchange from above)

[SiouxVolley]

You have to think strategically about what is going on.

Idaho will not be invited back to the Sun Belt in 2015 (although they can play til 2017). The Big Sky will petition the NCAA to form a FBS league in late 2015. E Wash in adding on to their stadium in anticipation of FBS, so they need bigger FCS teams to fill it. EWU wants NDSU in the league.

NDSU thinks they will play UND eventually because they think they will be in an FBS Big Sky. NDSU just want to delay that series from starting. NDSU has to go to the Big Sky, as no other conference will offer them an FBS spot. No Colo can't go FBS, so NDSU knows that the Big Sky needs them for a travel partner with UND. Faison is offering NDSU a better deal, because he knows that an NDSU deal would get overturned by the league office.

Perhaps UND and the Big Sky should offer SDSU first, giving UND a travel partner. Let NDSU rot on the vine in FCS while UND and SDSU clean up on recruiting. Then NDSU will be crying to the media about UND being unfair. Give it a few years until recruiting dries up, and then NDSU can come aboard if they play the first two in GF.

[The Sicatoka]

SDSU would never do that to their "rival".

[Hammersmith]

I'm wondering if that came from Taylor or from his boss. I guess we'd know if Faison asked Acting AD Prakesh Mathew to go back the the home-and-home that nearly happened in April of 2011 (adjusting the date as 2017 has since been filled by a far away, out of footprint, Big Sky school).

I didn't include the full quote because I was trying to keep things to one line when possible to keep it readable. Here was the quote from the July 28 GT email that Schlossman used in his article:

“I talked with our President and football coach. We are still going to hold to a two game deal in Fargo to get this started. For various reasons that I have mentioned before we feel that two games to start the series in Fargo is where we start. Since you can’t make another road game work in 2017 we will offer the September 19, 2015 in Fargo and another game in either 2018 or 2019 that works for you. We have options for both of those years.”

[bison73]

You have to think strategically about what is going on.

Idaho will not be invited back to the Sun Belt in 2015 (although they can play til 2017). The Big Sky will petition the NCAA to form a FBS league in late 2015. E Wash in adding on to their stadium in anticipation of FBS, so they need bigger FCS teams to fill it. EWU wants NDSU in the league.

NDSU thinks they will play UND eventually because they think they will be in an FBS Big Sky. NDSU just want to delay that series from starting. NDSU has to go to the Big Sky, as no other conference will offer them an FBS spot. No Colo can't go FBS, so NDSU knows that the Big Sky needs them for a travel partner with UND. Faison is offering NDSU a better deal, because he knows that an NDSU deal would get overturned by the league office.

Perhaps UND and the Big Sky should offer SDSU first, giving UND a travel partner. Let NDSU rot on the vine in FCS while UND and SDSU clean up on recruiting. Then NDSU will be crying to the media about UND being unfair. Give it a few years until recruiting dries up, and then NDSU can come aboard if they play the first two in GF.

Of course this is all speculation. I do find the the scenario interesting but its still pretty far fetched specualtion at this point.

[SIOUXFAN97]

You have to think strategically about what is going on.

Idaho will not be invited back to the Sun Belt in 2015 (although they can play til 2017). The Big Sky will petition the NCAA to form a FBS league in late 2015. E Wash in adding on to their stadium in anticipation of FBS, so they need bigger FCS teams to fill it. EWU wants NDSU in the league.

NDSU thinks they will play UND eventually because they think they will be in an FBS Big Sky. NDSU just want to delay that series from starting. NDSU has to go to the Big Sky, as no other conference will offer them an FBS spot. No Colo can't go FBS, so NDSU knows that the Big Sky needs them for a travel partner with UND. Faison is offering NDSU a better deal, because he knows that an NDSU deal would get overturned by the league office.

Perhaps UND and the Big Sky should offer SDSU first, giving UND a travel partner. Let NDSU rot on the vine in FCS while UND and SDSU clean up on recruiting. Then NDSU will be crying to the media about UND being unfair. Give it a few years until recruiting dries up, and then NDSU can come aboard if they play the first two in GF.

i would absolutely laugh if both usd and the ndac were left floating in fcs/d2/ncc 2.4 and sdsu with their new facilities is chosen by the big sky presidents as und's travel partner in a big sky/wac/fbs merger...usd is dead to fullerton and i can see the new ad at the ndac already buttering up with these odd ooc games he is scheduling...

[bison73]

I'm wondering if that came from Taylor or from his boss. I guess we'd know if Faison asked Acting AD Prakesh Mathew to go back the the home-and-home that nearly happened in April of 2011 (adjusting the date as 2017 has since been filled by a far away, out of footprint, Big Sky school).

The acting AD will not go back to a 2011 offer that is no longer on the table. My bet is he will not do anything unless the current deal on the table is accepted. I am also very sure there are complete details and instructions how to proceed if the offer is accepted.

[Siouxphan27]

The acting AD will not go back to a 2011 offer that is no longer on the table. My bet is he will not do anything unless the current deal on the table is accepted. I am also very sure there are complete details and instructions how to proceed if the offer is accepted.

Yes, of course there are instructions left behind by GT if an offer is accepted:

Step 1: Entirely change the offer, making it so ridiculous, no FCS school would ever think of signing it.

Step 2: Repeat.

[Matt]

I am not willing to call for Faison's job over this. The before/after picture of what was going on in the athletic department prior to his arrival here speaks for itself.

That being said, for Faison to accept a two road game deal in Fargo would make my blood boil to a point that it becomes too difficult to put into words. A two road game FCS deal. Not even a two for one at home? Nobody offers that. Nobody accepts that.

In the NFL they talk about respecting the shield. Well goddammit, it is about time someone started respecting the Kelly Green and White (if we can no longer do so for the old logo). You do not devalue your program by agreeing to such unprecedentedly lopsided terms. Someone earlier referred to "whoring" out the program, and making the UND program their "bitch", and that's exactly what it is. It would be nothing more than a walk of shame down I-94 for those two games and then staring at a phone that ain't ringing. And then you know what happens? Every other program believes they could ask the same thing from you because you know what? You did it once...you'll do it again. Now other programs will approach their negotiations differently from the start and expect they will be able to low ball you because you are the whore that goes on the road for two games with no return.

I'm not getting into a discussion with the ac faithful about this offer, as it merits none. It's a sham. A joke. I don't give a s**t about the legitimacy of the offers/counteroffers that have been made until now. This "offer" changes the game because it sends the clearest possible signal that your negotiating partner believes you to be a piece of s**t that deserves no better offer, and is treating you as such.

End rant.

[UND-FB-FAN]

I am not willing to call for Faison's job over this. The before/after picture of what was going on in the athletic department prior to his arrival here speaks for itself.

That being said, for Faison to accept a two road game deal in Fargo would make my blood boil to a point that it becomes too difficult to put into words. A two road game FCS deal. Not even a two for one at home? Nobody offers that. Nobody accepts that.

In the NFL they talk about respecting the shield. Well goddammit, it is about time someone started respecting the Kelly Green and White (if we can no longer do so for the old logo). You do not devalue your program by agreeing to such unprecedentedly lopsided terms. Someone earlier referred to "whoring" out the program, and making the UND program their "bitch", and that's exactly what it is. It would be nothing more than a walk of shame down I-94 for those two games and then staring at a phone that ain't ringing. And then you know what happens? Every other program believes they could ask the same thing from you because you know what? You did it once...you'll do it again. Now other programs will approach their negotiations differently from the start and expect they will be able to low ball you because you are the whore that goes on the road for two games with no return.

I'm not getting into a discussion with the ac faithful about this offer, as it merits none. It's a sham. A joke. I don't give a s**t about the legitimacy of the offers/counteroffers that have been made until now. This "offer" changes the game because it sends the clearest possible signal that your negotiating partner believes you to be a piece of s**t that deserves no better offer, and is treating you as such.

End rant.

Agreed.

Basic principles here:

1) Agree to home and home with fellow FCS North Dakota State

-or-

2) Agree to home and home with OTHER FCS football program

Simple course of action in my opinion.

[Matt]

Agreed.

Basic principles here:

1) Agree to home and home with fellow FCS North Dakota State

-or-

2) Agree to home and home with OTHER FCS football program

Simple course of action in my opinion.

Bubba is following the ac formula of running game and defense to be successful, I would suggest Faison follow their scheduling formula as well.

Lessons learned.

[UND-FB-FAN]

Bubba is following the ac formula of running game and defense to be successful, I would suggest Faison follow their scheduling formula as well.

Lessons learned.

Really, its just the UND and Dale Lennon formula from about 2000 to 2007 that Bubba is following.

Most people forget that UND's best FCS win is not 2012 vs. Montana, or 2011 vs. SUU, or even 2009 vs. Cal Poly, but rather in 2006 vs. #3 Northern Iowa.

In 2006, and the rest of Lennon's years, UND was a balanced physical offense (not a delicate air-it-all-over-the-place offense) with a physical pressure defense. Bottom line, they played smart, physical, balanced football with local area recruits. Why Mussman got away from that, I'll never know, because he witnessed all the successful Lennon teams in person.

Nevertheless, Bubba knows how to make UND successful, because when UND was DII with Lennon, they were already a "top FCS-caliber" team. Bubba both coached for and against Dale Lennon's UND teams. Furthermore, Bubba was with Lennon for the past 6 years.

Bottom line, Bubba knows what it takes to make UND successful. Maybe not SIU, but he knows the formula for UND.

This thing is on the right track with Bubba.