UND1983 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Does posting in this thread stop people from posting in other threads? Do you tell other people at the Thanksgiving Dinner table what they should be talking about? Just trying to see if people could maybe "re-focus" on the current season for awhile now that all feelings have been expressed multiple times by the same people. The whole reason we are talking about this game is because we are fans of UND Football, who happen to be in-season right now!
darell1976 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Oh, I guess I didn't realize that Pittsburgh PA and Morgntown WV were in the same state... You're quick with a comeback for that comparison...guess I lost you on the Alabama/Duke history lesson... It's more similar than a series played 12 times, where one team has never won, and one team has only been in the FBS since 1997. UND-NDSU has been played over 100 times, UND leads the series, and UND has been at the same level as NDSU except the 4 years NDSU moved up. Yeah those 2 series are similar. 2
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I read something about people not liking this contract about 30 pages ago. Move on. Saying the same thing over and over again isn't going to change anything. The actual team that is playing in the game you so resent is also playing tomorrow night. Is it ok if I post in both places? Let me know what you decide 1
MafiaMan Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 It's more similar than a series played 12 times, where one team has never won, and one team has only been in the FBS since 1997. UND-NDSU has been played over 100 times, UND leads the series, and UND has been at the same level as NDSU except the 4 years NDSU moved up. Yeah those 2 series are similar. Not in the same state...one rival didn't leave the other behind for four years and move up...obviously your points have merit and I certainly wasn't saying that the comparison was exactly the same... About my second paragraph, though...no rebuttal?
Irish Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Bent over? Good god people, the games still need to be played. Just try to believe that UND can win the game, regardless of location. The Ag school trolls have really got into the heads of a lot of supposed UND fans... Again, want to be the best, you have to beat the best. Making this deal gives UND that opportunity. Arguing over contract terms for another 5 years does not. Where did I say UND couldn't win - I was critical of Faison, who to the best of my knowledge has no eligibility left. My comment was to point out that we accepted an offer from the knuckleheads down south that was a deliberate insult.
Redneksioux Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Where did I say UND couldn't win - I was critical of Faison, who to the best of my knowledge has no eligibility left. My comment was to point out that we accepted an offer from the knuckleheads down south that was a deliberate insult. Any other fcs team could have signed a better deal with ndsu than this. Sure. But why do you think gt continued to move the goal posts on this deal and sent an offer like this in the first place? As a und fan I'm glad the games are back on. Getting these games played are huge for und and could make und football a bigger deal than ndsu football currently is in nd. A loss for them could be disastrous for their program. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here but for every one und football fan in nd there is probably 5 ndsu football fans. Having these games played will change that in the right direction for und.
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Any other fcs team could have signed a better deal with ndsu than this. Sure. But why do you think gt continued to move the goal posts on this deal and sent an offer like this in the first place? As a und fan I'm glad the games are back on. Getting these games played are huge for und and could make und football a bigger deal than ndsu football currently is in nd. A loss for them could be disastrous for their program. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here but for every one und football fan in nd there is probably 5 ndsu football fans. Having these games played will change that in the right direction for und. Wasn't beating EWU, MSU, and UM supposed to do that?* *do not interpret this question to mean I am against playing ndsu.
ibleedgreen Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Any other fcs team could have signed a better deal with ndsu than this. Sure. But why do you think gt continued to move the goal posts on this deal and sent an offer like this in the first place? As a und fan I'm glad the games are back on. Getting these games played are huge for und and could make und football a bigger deal than ndsu football currently is in nd. A loss for them could be disastrous for their program. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here but for every one und football fan in nd there is probably 5 ndsu football fans. Having these games played will change that in the right direction for und. If that's the case NDSU shouldn't have a problem expanding the fargo dome to 45,000 seats....lmao
Redneksioux Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Wasn't beating EWU, MSU, and UM supposed to do that?* *do not interpret this question to mean I am against playing ndsu. Travel around to communities around the state. Communities closer to grand forks than Fargo and north of grand forks. Bison gear and signs are everywhere. You see very few people wearing und football gear. A win over ewu/Montana/Montana state won't change this the way a win over ndsu will. Ndsu's statewide tv deal helps their case also. More people in nd have access to the bison games. A win over them or even a competitive game against them will be huge for und.
fightingsioux4life Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Travel around to communities around the state. Communities closer to grand forks than Fargo and north of grand forks. Bison gear and signs are everywhere. You see very few people wearing und football gear. A win over ewu/Montana/Montana state won't change this the way a win over ndsu will. Ndsu's statewide tv deal helps their case also. More people in nd have access to the bison games. A win over them or even a competitive game against them will be huge for und. You can blame that on the Mussman regime. Six years of utter mediocrity will do that. That putrid situation won't last much longer now that we have a credible leader in Bubba and a solid group of assistants.
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Travel around to communities around the state. Communities closer to grand forks than Fargo and north of grand forks. Bison gear and signs are everywhere. You see very few people wearing und football gear. A win over ewu/Montana/Montana state won't change this the way a win over ndsu will. Ndsu's statewide tv deal helps their case also. More people in nd have access to the bison games. A win over them or even a competitive game against them will be huge for und. I tend to agree with you. However, UND is in the BSC and rarely plays ndsu (even under the most optimistic scenarios) so beating top BSC opponents will need to have a lot more meaning. Playing the ac can't be the linchpin. It is too rare. 1
darell1976 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 You can blame that on the Mussman regime. Six years of utter mediocrity will do that. That putrid situation won't last much longer now that we have a credible leader in Bubba and a solid group of assistants. True. When you can't get above .500 and UND did that twice I believe since 2007 you lose the non-hardcore fans. When this team gets better and get into the playoffs those fans will come back. 1
Redneksioux Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 If that's the case NDSU shouldn't have a problem expanding the fargo dome to 45,000 seats....lmao I didn't say that! I'm just going off of what I've observed as bison fans around the area. Very few people speak of und football. And I think a win over ndsu will be the fastest way for und to move the area's chains in und's direction.
Oxbow6 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 True. When you can't get above .500 and UND did that twice I believe since 2007 you lose the non-hardcore fans. When this team gets better and get into the playoffs those fans will come back. The 2 woodshed beatings by the Montana schools last year really turned away a number of those "non-hardcore" fans.
Redneksioux Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I tend to agree with you. However, UND is in the BSC and rarely plays ndsu (even under the most optimistic scenarios) so beating top BSC opponents will need to have a lot more meaning. Playing the ac can't be the linchpin. It is too rare. I'd agree wins over the top big sky teams are important. But if und wins the big sky conference do you think the band wagon hoppers will just hop back over to cheer for und? I think one good showing vs ndsu next year will do this much faster. It depends how you look at the deal that was signed. If you look at it being an away/away agreement for a low amount of dollars it looks terrible. But und has much more to win with these games played than ndsu does. I see this as a lose lose scenario for ndsu. 1
darell1976 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 The 2 woodshed beatings by the Montana schools last year really turned away a number of those "non-hardcore" fans. Definitely. Proof was the 2,000 people at the UNC game. Winning will put butts in the seats. 1
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I'd agree wins over the top big sky teams are important. But if und wins the big sky conference do you think the band wagon hoppers will just hop back over to cheer for und? I think one good showing vs ndsu next year will do this much faster.It depends how you look at the deal that was signed. If you look at it being an away/away agreement for a low amount of dollars it looks terrible. But und has much more to win with these games played than ndsu does. I see this as a lose lose scenario for ndsu. First, I view the deal badly on it's own merits. Beyond that, UND does have to potential to gain something and so does ndsu. However, this is only because of the disparate state of the respective programs. If UND keeps it close, it will help a little. If they win it helps a lot. If the ac wins in a blowout they gain a little, but only because it confirms what people already believe. But, factoring in the bad terms of the deal, I think it negates any perceived benefit except a win. But getting back to my BSC point-winning the conference and beating the conference opponents must have the ability to do as much OR MORE than a win vs the ac, and most certainly more than a close loss. Again, games vs the ac are too rare for the BSC schedule to take a back seat. If not, let's drop the pretense and attempt MVFC/Summit membership.
Cratter Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 If that's the case NDSU shouldn't have a problem expanding the fargo dome to 45,000 seats....lmaoAt least 30,000. For some playoff games they could probably sell 35,000 (semifinals) and this upcoming UND game. Maybe 40,000. West Fargo, Fargo, Moorhead has added 55,000 people since the Fargodome first opened. The size of Grand Forks so in theory add an Alerus center to it (13,000 seats).
Redneksioux Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 First, I view the deal badly on it's own merits. Beyond that, UND does have to potential to gain something and so does ndsu. However, this is only because of the disparate state of the respective programs. If UND keeps it close, it will help a little. If they win it helps a lot. If the ac wins in a blowout they gain a little, but only because it confirms what people already believe. But, factoring in the bad terms of the deal, I think it negates any perceived benefit except a win. But getting back to my BSC point-winning the conference and beating the conference opponents must have the ability to do as much OR MORE than a win vs the ac, and most certainly more than a close loss. Again, games vs the ac are too rare for the BSC schedule to take a back seat. If not, let's drop the pretense and attempt MVFC/Summit membership. In order for und football to bypass ndsu without the head to head match up und would need to win many big sky games. This would take years. How long will it take for und football to win 3 fcs titles? I'm happy with the deal as a fan. I'd love to see und football get the attention ndsu football gets.
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 In order for und football to bypass ndsu without the head to head match up und would need to win many big sky games. This would take years. How long will it take for und football to win 3 fcs titles? I'm happy with the deal as a fan. I'd love to see und football get the attention ndsu football gets. I didn't think winning our own conference games is setting the bar so high. I thought that is kind of an expectation. If the ac trumps all of that UND is in the wrong conference because a game every couple of presidential election cycles isn't gonna cut it. 2
Cratter Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 First, I view the deal badly on it's own merits. Beyond that, UND does have to potential to gain something and so does ndsu. However, this is only because of the disparate state of the respective programs. If UND keeps it close, it will help a little. If they win it helps a lot. If the ac wins in a blowout they gain a little, but only because it confirms what people already believe. But, factoring in the bad terms of the deal, I think it negates any perceived benefit except a win. But getting back to my BSC point-winning the conference and beating the conference opponents must have the ability to do as much OR MORE than a win vs the ac, and most certainly more than a close loss. Again, games vs the ac are too rare for the BSC schedule to take a back seat. If not, let's drop the pretense and attempt MVFC/Summit membership. I don't think it just be beating BSC opponents. It'd have to be winning numerous championships and beating FBS teams regularly including Big Ten teams (which doesn't appear as a possibility anymore). The standards are now set pretty high for UND football (by what state football fans are seeing from the Bison) and as it sits today a win against them (3 time defending champs). Would go a long way in installing confidence in what the program could become (at least for the fans). It's a giant step forward vs baby steps. And more people might take notice in those giant steps (beating an FBS or NDSU). Of course the deal sucks, no doubt about it. But we go play FBS teams all the time for money, no one seems to care (why? Money? Chance to beat the "big boys"?). In essence, it's the same. Of course NDSU isn't FBS, but besides the "title" the reasons are the same. This would be ok to schedule if NDSU declares FBS? Because if they do we will be guaranteed they never step foot in the Alerus. They have the stadium for it, UND doesn't. Brock Jenson said beating Kansas State was the biggest win in the programs history (and that was after winning back 2 back championship games). So just winning the BSC, while a great first step, I don't think does much for the program. They'd need to go deep into the playoffs.
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I don't think it just be beating BSC opponents. It'd have to be winning numerous championships and beating FBS teams regularly including Big Ten teams (which doesn't appear as a possibility anymore). The standards are now set pretty high for UND football (by what state football fans are seeing from the Bison) and as it sits today a win against them (3 time defending champs). Would go a long way in installing confidence in what the program could become (at least for the fans). It's a giant step forward vs baby steps. And more people might take notice in those giant steps (beating an FBS or NDSU). Of course the deal sucks, no doubt about it. But we go play FBS teams all the time for money, no one seems to care (why? Money? Chance to beat the "big boys"?). In essence, it's the same. Of course NDSU isn't FBS, but besides the "title" the reasons are the same. This would be ok to schedule if NDSU declares FBS? Because if they do we will be guaranteed they never step foot in the Alerus. They have the stadium for it, UND doesn't. Brock Jenson said beating Kansas State was the biggest win in the programs history (and that was after winning back 2 back championship games). So just winning the BSC, while a great first step, I don't think does much for the program. They'd need to go deep into the playoffs. You make good points. If you are correct though, then I would need to adjust my cost/benefit analysis of the game next year. There is A LOT more riding on it for UND than I originally figured.
zonadub Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 You can blame that on the Mussman regime. Six years of utter mediocrity will do that. That putrid situation won't last much longer now that we have a credible leader in Bubba and a solid group of assistants. Another part of the fan support of NDSU is that Mussman had so few North Dakota high school players on his teams, while Bohl made a point of getting out in the small communities around the state and recruiting ND kids. Looks like Coach Schweigert and his staff might be trying to change that. People want to cheer for the hometown boy. Go Sioux tomorrow night.
zonadub Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Also, if UND wins the Big Sky, but loses to NDSU, what will that do for the perception of UND vs NDSU and the Big Sky vs the MVFC?
MafiaMan Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Another part of the fan support of NDSU is that Mussman had so few North Dakota high school players on his teams, while Bohl made a point of getting out in the small communities around the state and recruiting ND kids. Looks like Coach Schweigert and his staff might be trying to change that. People want to cheer for the hometown boy. That's a great point. My hometown's Keith Buckman played for NDSU not that long ago. The folks there are pretty much Bison-fans-for-life now.
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