SiouxVolley Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 As stated before, the Summit League could lose its men's basketball autobid if it doesn't get two new baseball teams by July 1, 2014. (Or at least one baseball team, and then the NCAA could grant them another year of grace until Omaha is officially DI on July 1, 2015). A way that the Summit League could change its circumstances is by organizing another men's team sport under its own banner (either football, any other men's team sport). One of those sports could be hockey: which both Omaha and Denver have. If the Summit League fails, both Omaha and Denver could likely be forced into the WAC, which both probably want to avoid. Denver is known to hate the WAC for its academics (like Grand Canyon, Chicago St, UTPA, Utah Valley) and would work to avoid ever joining that conference again. Denver and Omaha could both offer to move their hockey programs to be under the Summit banner. Colorado College would do whatever Denver does. The Summit could then offer Duluth and St Cloud St membership in the Summit and waive their entrance fees. (Duluth and St Cloud could drop scholarship football to afford the full DI move). That would be five schools, one short of needed. The Summit could offer Minnesota State-Mankato hockey membership too, making six fully DI hockey schools under the Summit banner and saving the Summit. Mankato would gladly take that offer because it wants back in with the bigger boys, but would probably would want full DI membership in the Summit just like SCSU and Duluth. That type move by Denver and Omaha to save the Summit could really put the screws to UND hockey. Only Miami, W Mich, and UND would be left in the NCHC. Maybe it could invite Bowling Green, Bemidji St, and Mich Tech and survive. But Miami and W Mich could decide to reform a new CCHA by adding schools like Ferris St, BGSU, Mercyhurst, Canisius, Niagara, UAH, or WMU and Miami could accept affiliate offers in hockey only. Doubtful that UND would want that. UND would likely be offered a Summit slot have to join the Summit - but the Summit might even demand that UND join for everything but football, which UND can't accept. Theoretically, UND might have to go back to the WCHA in order to save its affiliation with the Big Sky. There's never even been rumors about this anywhere (and really not intending to start them), but if Denver and Omaha feel threatened by the loss of Summit League affiliation (which Denver for sure would), if both programs turn their backs on the NCHC for the sake of the Summit League, a very bad scenario could come about. Denver and Omaha have a lot of power right now, and moreso if UMD, SCSU, and MSUM want to go DI in all sports. With no commissioner, the NCHC isn't in the best spot right now. What probably prevents the Summit from gaining any foothold in hockey is Douple. Doubt he could organize a rockpile, never mind a hockey conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Wow, this is a huge stretch. Why would Denver and Omaha, let alone CC put their premier hockey program in jeopardy? I really don't see NDSU, SDSU, and USD starting D1 hockey, it's way too expensive, not to mention the lack of recruits those programs would attract. I think the NCHC is going to be just fine and relevant for quite a while to come. Hahaha Summit League Hockey, it just sounds ridiculous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 As stated before, the Summit League could lose its men's basketball autobid if it doesn't get two new baseball teams by July 1, 2014. (Or at least one baseball team, and then the NCAA could grant them another year of grace until Omaha is officially DI on July 1, 2015). A way that the Summit League could change its circumstances is by organizing another men's team sport under its own banner (either football, any other men's team sport). One of those sports could be hockey: which both Omaha and Denver have. If the Summit League fails, both Omaha and Denver could likely be forced into the WAC, which both probably want to avoid. Denver is known to hate the WAC for its academics (like Grand Canyon, Chicago St, UTPA, Utah Valley) and would work to avoid ever joining that conference again. Denver and Omaha could both offer to move their hockey programs to be under the Summit banner. Colorado College would do whatever Denver does. The Summit could then offer Duluth and St Cloud St membership in the Summit and waive their entrance fees. (Duluth and St Cloud could drop scholarship football to afford the full DI move). That would be five schools, one short of needed. The Summit could offer Minnesota State-Mankato hockey membership too, making six fully DI hockey schools under the Summit banner and saving the Summit. Mankato would gladly take that offer because it wants back in with the bigger boys, but would probably would want full DI membership in the Summit just like SCSU and Duluth. That type move by Denver and Omaha to save the Summit could really put the screws to UND hockey. Only Miami, W Mich, and UND would be left in the NCHC. Maybe it could invite Bowling Green, Bemidji St, and Mich Tech and survive. But Miami and W Mich could decide to reform a new CCHA by adding schools like Ferris St, BGSU, Mercyhurst, Canisius, Niagara, UAH, or WMU and Miami could accept affiliate offers in hockey only. Doubtful that UND would want that. UND would likely be offered a Summit slot have to join the Summit - but the Summit might even demand that UND join for everything but football, which UND can't accept. Theoretically, UND might have to go back to the WCHA in order to save its affiliation with the Big Sky. There's never even been rumors about this anywhere (and really not intending to start them), but if Denver and Omaha feel threatened by the loss of Summit League affiliation (which Denver for sure would), if both programs turn their backs on the NCHC for the sake of the Summit League, a very bad scenario could come about. Denver and Omaha have a lot of power right now, and moreso if UMD, SCSU, and MSUM want to go DI in all sports. With no commissioner, the NCHC isn't in the best spot right now. What probably prevents the Summit from gaining any foothold in hockey is Douple. Doubt he could organize a rockpile, never mind a hockey conference. This is why we shouldn't lose sleep over this. Douple is too busy trying to save his own pathetic hide to even have time to think about something like this, let alone do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farce poobah Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Interesting hypothetical, but one that creates as many problems as it solves. A lot of issues with the scenario. First and foremost, Douple, as SiouxVolley notes. Second, the NCHC broke off because they wanted to be with schools that share a "hockey-excellence" mindset. Going back into Summit means risking becoming a backseat sport. Third, the rest of the Summit knows that Douple screwed over UND, or tried to, and that bad blood exists there. Asking UND to join the Summit is a slap in the face to UND. Now if Douple were to step down as a condition ... that might fly... Fourth, UMD faces political opposition from UM-TC if they want to go D-1 across the board, not to mention the money side of it, and the number of sports sponsored, and the loss of long time Northern Sun rivalries. Fifth, the MNSCU politics of letting two members move up (SCSU and MSU-Mankato) and thereby gain a disproportionate share of resources would result in a hit to Moorhead State, Bemidji State, Winona State, and the rest of the MNSCU. This one seems really REALLY unlikely to happen, except in the unlikely event that SCSU could come up with the money themselves, that Mankato could too, and that all seems highly unlikely. Certainly, Denver is in a tough spot. It would seem their Athletic Director and/or administration have badly misread the tea leaves here (not to mention messing up a great hockey program by canning Gwozdecky). That said, hockey and lacrosse, their two highest-profile sports are in a solid position. Interesting to hypothesize about, but the solution creates more problems than it solves... I'm expecting to hear that the Summit gives some remote desperate school a sweetheart deal to get the conference back to AQ status. Its worth a lot of money to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Wow, this is a huge stretch. Why would Denver and Omaha, let alone CC put their premier hockey program in jeopardy? I really don't see NDSU, SDSU, and USD starting D1 hockey, it's way too expensive, not to mention the lack of recruits those programs would attract. I think the NCHC is going to be just fine and relevant for quite a while to come. Hahaha Summit League Hockey, it just sounds ridiculous Denver has to have access to a autobid in men's basketball so it can get into a better all sports conference someday. The first to admit here that Denver would have to be desperate to lead the charge, but DU had to be desperate to go to the Summit in the first place. In DU's view it could just view it as a change in administration rather than a real conference change, but UND, Miami, and W Michigan certainly wouldn't view it that way. It's summer, so had to create a bit of a speculative sideshow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Interesting hypothetical, but one that creates as many problems as it solves. A lot of issues with the scenario. First and foremost, Douple, as SiouxVolley notes. Second, the NCHC broke off because they wanted to be with schools that share a "hockey-excellence" mindset. Going back into Summit means risking becoming a backseat sport. Third, the rest of the Summit knows that Douple screwed over UND, or tried to, and that bad blood exists there. Asking UND to join the Summit is a slap in the face to UND. Now if Douple were to step down as a condition ... that might fly... Fourth, UMD faces political opposition from UM-TC if they want to go D-1 across the board, not to mention the money side of it, and the number of sports sponsored, and the loss of long time Northern Sun rivalries. Fifth, the MNSCU politics of letting two members move up (SCSU and MSU-Mankato) and thereby gain a disproportionate share of resources would result in a hit to Moorhead State, Bemidji State, Winona State, and the rest of the MNSCU. This one seems really REALLY unlikely to happen, except in the unlikely event that SCSU could come up with the money themselves, that Mankato could too, and that all seems highly unlikely. Certainly, Denver is in a tough spot. It would seem their Athletic Director and/or administration have badly misread the tea leaves here (not to mention messing up a great hockey program by canning Gwozdecky). That said, hockey and lacrosse, their two highest-profile sports are in a solid position. Interesting to hypothesize about, but the solution creates more problems than it solves... I'm expecting to hear that the Summit gives some remote desperate school a sweetheart deal to get the conference back to AQ status. Its worth a lot of money to them... For DU and Omaha, a move to Summit admistration would save a lot of money for them, as they keep the basketball credits rolling in. That's some serious money - more than they would get from the NCHC. The B1G hockey conference only shares hockey revenue with the hockey schools - the Summit could do the same. Do agree that all of UMD, SCSU, and MSU-Kato would have financial trouble with going DI, but if they can drop football or go to non-scholarship football, that would save them serious $'s as even women's scholarships could be reduced or or sports like skiing eliminated. They could argue that Winona St and Southwest St and Bemidji St would get better players in football and that the Northern Sun could reduce football scholarships as there'd be less competition. The Minnesota systems really didn't seem to squawk when the schools were separated into the higher scholarship NCC and the old Northern Sun with low scholarships. Think the Summit badly wants at least one Minnesota school as a member. Kind of doubt that NDSU, SDSU, and USD would want a whole waive of Minnesota schools though, as it would reduce the Minnnesota kids going to those three for basketball. But agree, the chances of this happening are probably very small, but wouldn't at all be surprised if DU and Omaha are pushing the idea behind the scenes (mostly to save their own hides). Think DU and Omaha really want UND in the Summit too, but neither of them care how it would damage UND football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 So what's the odds the SL loses another team or two between now and July 1st of 2014? Knowing the history of the SL...pretty good. The SU's will be knocking on the BSC's door by Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Since we are playing scenarios that are out there ... Let's say the DU/UNO/Summit gambit happens. That'll probably be a couple years out from now. By then the negative gate impact of Big Ten Hockey will have hit UMn/UW. That means UMn/UW will need something to respark their fan bases (because PSU and OSU won't offer the spark). And now the Big Ten has opened the precedent to affiliate members (Johns Hopkins lacrosse in the new Big Ten Lax). So, I say let DU/UNO try that gambit, and then have UND apply (beg?) the Big Ten to let UND play as a hockey affiliate. Hey, I said "out there" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Since we are playing scenarios that are out there ... Let's say the DU/UNO/Summit gambit happens. That'll probably be a couple years out from now. By then the negative gate impact of Big Ten Hockey will have hit UMn/UW. That means UMn/UW will need something to respark their fan bases (because PSU and OSU won't offer the spark). And now the Big Ten has opened the precedent to affiliate members (Johns Hopkins lacrosse in the new Big Ten Lax). So, I say let DU/UNO try that gambit, and then have UND apply (beg?) the Big Ten to let UND play as a hockey affiliate. Hey, I said "out there" ... Actually it may be be that "out there". If John Hopkins can join the B1G why not UND? UND is a big money maker in hockey and if PSU fails they will need another "big hockey name" to join and since teams like Illinois or Indiana is not in the future why not UND? Imagine the $$$ from the team who is #1 in attendance. It may become a reality when their !@#!$ conference fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Actually it may be be that "out there". If John Hopkins can join the B1G why not UND? UND is a big money maker in hockey and if PSU fails they will need another "big hockey name" to join and since teams like Illinois or Indiana is not in the future why not UND? Imagine the $$$ from the team who is #1 in attendance. It may become a reality when their !@#!$ conference fails. if you can't tell the difference between letting John Hopkins affiliate and letting UND affiliate.... By big10 standards, UND hockey revenue is pocket change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 if you can't tell the difference between letting John Hopkins affiliate and letting UND affiliate.... By big10 standards, UND hockey revenue is pocket change. It's the fact they let JH join, it used to be all or nothing no affiliates, well hockey is a minor sport in the NCAA just like wrestling and lacrosse, so why not allow UND to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 It's the fact they let JH join, it used to be all or nothing no affiliates, well hockey is a minor sport in the NCAA just like wrestling and lacrosse, so why not allow UND to join. because UND is not John Hopkins. UND is not a peer of Big 10 schools, John Hopkins is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 because UND is not John Hopkins. UND is not a peer of Big 10 schools, John Hopkins is. You're right, there is a huge difference between John Hopkins and UND institutionally, but if the Big 10 Sports Network wants UND to increase ratings then it could very well happen. However, I do not believe for one second that the BTSN would pay UND the same money for hockey that they do the other BTHC members. Lets be honest, the NCHC isn't going to dissolve anytime soon and the BTHC isn't shooting anyone an invite that isnt already a member of the club. No need to be a troll about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 It's the fact they let JH join, it used to be all or nothing no affiliates, well hockey is a minor sport in the NCAA just like wrestling and lacrosse, so why not allow UND to join. About the only thing UND has going for it is being good at hockey, but the B1G confirmed that being good at a sport isn't as important to them as other factors by adding Rutgers and Maryland. The formula became pretty clear with the recent additions -- institutions should be an academic peer with the other institutions and provide a significant revenue opportunity. In short: 1) Be on this list AAU membership, 2) open a new market for the Big Ten Network (JHU/UMD = Baltimore/DC MSA, Rutgers = New York/New Jersey), and 3) have a big fan base to demand that channel from local cable providers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 No need to be a troll about it. How was that trolling, I was just pointing out an obvious truth that darrell refused to grasp. The second post shouldn't even have been necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 How was that trolling, I was just pointing out an obvious truth that darrell refused to grasp. The second post shouldn't even have been necessary. It was trolling because a singular reference about UND hockey and the Big Ten sets off your rage and jealousy. UND hockey is superior to the B1G in that sport, and you just can't handle it. But on bisonville where the numerous dumb*sses there start talking about how some day the bizons are going to be in the Big 12 or B1G, nary a word out of you. Nobody there calls anyone on the preposterous statements written everyday by those noobs. Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e, "reformedUNDfan", or do I have to spell it out for you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Wouldn't it be a smarter move for Denver to try and join the Big Sky Conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Wouldn't it be a smarter move for Denver to try and join the Big Sky Conference? Yes, but DU has a superiority complex when it comes to UNC...I've never understood it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Yes, but DU has a superiority complex when it comes to UNC...I've never understood it. I guess you could say that's how DU is toward every school in Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I guess you could say that's how DU is toward every school in Colorado. As a private school with their academic reputation, admission standards, the tuition they charge and endowment, not all that surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Wouldn't it be a smarter move for Denver to try and join the Big Sky Conference? The Big Sky has very strict rules: every addition must offer the Big Sky's 14 core sports (perhaps not so coincidentally identical to Montana's) including football. UND had to agree to offer men's tennis to be accepted. Last summer, non-football WAC schools announced that they would be reviewing the ability to sponsor football when the WAC and Big Sky were talking about merging. Without having football, guess the fear is that DU would pour money into basketball and dominate Montana and Weber St (so those two probably very much opposed changing the rules). Obviously, Denver and Seattle rejected the idea of FCS football, with Denver moving on shortly thereafter and the WAC proceeded to invite the rest of the former Great West. Have to believe that Denver did want the Big Sky (schools like SUU and Weber St were bigger issues than UNC was however) over the Summit, but the Sky wouldn't allow in a non-football school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 The Big Sky has very strict rules: every addition must offer the Big Sky's 14 core sports (perhaps not so coincidentally identical to Montana's) including football. UND had to agree to offer men's tennis to be accepted. Last summer, non-football WAC schools announced that they would be reviewing the ability to sponsor football when the WAC and Big Sky were talking about merging. Without having football, guess the fear is that DU would pour money into basketball and dominate Montana and Weber St (so those two probably very much opposed changing the rules). Obviously, Denver and Seattle rejected the idea of FCS football, with Denver moving on shortly thereafter and the WAC proceeded to invite the rest of the former Great West. Have to believe that Denver did want the Big Sky (schools like SUU and Weber St were bigger issues than UNC was however) over the Summit, but the Sky wouldn't allow in a non-football school. Denver can compete in 7 Big Sky sports now, if I remember right there was talk on Let's Go DU blog about bringing back football to get into a better conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?33998-UMKC-Summit-League From Bisonville UMKC may be rejoining the SL: Well...this is interesting. A reporter for the Yankton Press is posting over on Bunnyville that a source has informed her that UMKC back to the Summit League is a "done deal." The move will happen before the end of this school year and they will be eligible next year. If true...STUPID. I hate the move and wish they would set their sights a little higher than that dumpster fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Didn't read the original post. LOL Edit: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Didn't read the original post. LOL Edit: I saw SL and stuck it here without starting a new one or going further back. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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