"When They Were Kings" UND-NDSU Rivalry

[airmail]

Didn't quite know where to post this, but thought I'd share. Looks like good Tuesday night TV.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PrairiePublicBcast

[darell1976]

Didn't quite know where to post this, but thought I'd share. Looks like good Tuesday night TV.

http://www.youtube.c...iriePublicBcast

I got the DVR set. Its about football and women's basketball between the rivalries. Interviews with key people associated with the two sports. It should be good. 7:00pm tonight on PBS (channel 13 in Fargo).

[JohnboyND7]

So far this documentary has been very good, and its almost done.

[tnt]

Wow, all the other coaches were gracious, but Rocky Hager was, well, Rocky Hager. Perfect example of win at all cost mentality, and not being able to give anyone credit.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

It was great seeing those highlights. Need to play again.

[JohnboyND7]

Wow, all the other coaches were gracious, but Rocky Hager was, well, Rocky Hager. Perfect example of win at all cost mentality, and not being able to give anyone credit.

Wouldn't have him any other way. Nice italics. Love his fire.

[Sodbuster]

Yes, they need to play again........I'm soon 61. Don't know how much time I have left.

[Shawn-O]

Wow, all the other coaches were gracious, but Rocky Hager was, well, Rocky Hager. Perfect example of win at all cost mentality, and not being able to give anyone credit.

The guy has never been playing with a full deck...can't wait to see it. "...knuckeheads to the north...." WTF? :lol:

[UND-FB-FAN]

That documentary only reminded me how badly this series needs to be resumed. Despite being in different conferences, Taylor and Faison need to schedule each other annually in all sports. The UND-NDSU rivalry was good for so many reasons - the state of North Dakota deserves it.

[tnt]

The guy has never been playing with a full deck...can't wait to see it. "...knuckeheads to the north...." WTF? :lol:

I like when they said losing 4 consecutive to the Sioux and other "off field" factors contributed to Rocky's downfall. I guess they got sick of being down and once again "off field" factors don't mean much, as long as you win.

[JohnboyND7]

I like when they said losing 4 consecutive to the Sioux and other "off field" factors contributed to Rocky's downfall. I guess they got sick of being down and once again "off field" factors don't mean much, as long as you win.

4 nickel games. Threw down in that playoff game.

I should also mention that the documentary(so well done! that basketball rivalry!!!) may have converted me to the bring the rivalry back every OTHER year(some think none at all, some say annual, I compromise). Yet at the same time, that rivalry was clearly so amazing, that no matter how hard we try, it really is gone and should be almost left alone.

[gabe01]

Great job. As I Bison fan I admit it makes me respect what both teams did. I loved the basketball bit even more. We will never see anything like that again. I kind of agree that Rocky sounded like a dick. Hes just really competitive and hated to lose. Normally I cant stand Roger Thomas but I have to admit he came across as very likeable for the first time ever . Stirred up some great memories

[gabe01]

I like when they said losing 4 consecutive to the Sioux and other "off field" factors contributed to Rocky's downfall. I guess they got sick of being down and once again "off field" factors don't mean much, as long as you win.

I didnt realize that no Bison coach survived 3 losses in a row to UND. I think Don Morton said that

[UND1983]

Here is the thing about Rocky: the guy was a Class A dink but he won. He won games at NDSU when they were giving out more schollies than most teams and had the veer that could not be stopped. Give him credit for the championships he won. When things evened out with schollies he didn't do a thing. There are alot of coaches who could have won NC's with those 1980's Bison teams - alot!

Look no further than his post-NDSU coaching career. Don't mean to turn this into rip session but he was not the nicest/most respected guy in the world - but he won.

On the flip side, Roger was a hell of a nice guy who dug UND out of the gutter to bring them to the top of the NCC - but could not win a NC. Horse a piece I guess.

[Matt]

Here is the thing about Rocky: the guy was a Class A dink but he won. He won games at NDSU when they were giving out more schollies than most teams and had the veer that could not be stopped. Give him credit for the championships he won. When things evened out with schollies he didn't do a thing. There are alot of coaches who could have won NC's with those 1980's Bison teams - alot!

Look no further than his post-NDSU coaching career. Don't mean to turn this into rip session but he was not the nicest/most respected guy in the world - but he won.

On the flip side, Roger was a hell of a nice guy who dug UND out of the gutter to bring them to the top of the NCC - but could not win a NC. Horse a piece I guess.

The top teams of the NCC were fully funded. That's the fatal flaw in the argument. Scholarship reductions helped prop up small d-2 programs that gradually rose to prominence in the late 90s-see UM-Duluth-but as it pertains to Roger vs Rocky, the programs were on equal scholarship footing. Roger and his staff were just flat out better recruiters. I've talked to too many guys with the same story: bison recruiter tells kid he's fortunate bison were recruiting him; sioux recruiter tells him we would be fortunate to have kid choose und. I think the arrogance caught up with them the further away from the glory days they got.

Remember, the class with Satter was recruited in the fall of 86 when Solomonson was there. Rocky's first full year started in 87. Look at what started to happen 4+ years after that. Every recruiting class performed progressively worse, particularly vs und.

[Bison Dan]

The top teams of the NCC were fully funded. That's the fatal flaw in the argument. Scholarship reductions helped prop up small d-2 programs that gradually rose to prominence in the late 90s-see UM-Duluth-but as it pertains to Roger vs Rocky, the programs were on equal scholarship footing. Roger and his staff were just flat out better recruiters. I've talked to too many guys with the same story: bison recruiter tells kid he's fortunate bison were recruiting him; sioux recruiter tells him we would be fortunate to have kid choose und. I think the arrogance caught up with them the further away from the glory days they got.

Remember, the class with Satter was recruited in the fall of 86 when Solomonson was there. Rocky's first full year started in 87. Look at what started to happen 4+ years after that. Every recruiting class performed progressively worse, particularly vs und.

Your opinion - but as some Sioux backers told me back in the day was Roger recruited & designed his D to stop the veer (NDSU). He knew that the way to the playoffs went through them. Smart on his part. Recruiting was made easiler when they reduced the scholarships down from 46 as a lot of NDSU's would be recruits went to other teams. Makes a big difference as you have to pick correctly with only 36 scholarships.

[NDRPinLV]

Anyone know if you can watch it online for those of us out of the viewing area?

[Siouxperfan7]

Here is the thing about Rocky: the guy was a Class A dink but he won. He won games at NDSU when they were giving out more schollies than most teams and had the veer that could not be stopped. Give him credit for the championships he won. When things evened out with schollies he didn't do a thing. There are alot of coaches who could have won NC's with those 1980's Bison teams - alot!

Look no further than his post-NDSU coaching career. Don't mean to turn this into rip session but he was not the nicest/most respected guy in the world - but he won.

On the flip side, Roger was a hell of a nice guy who dug UND out of the gutter to bring them to the top of the NCC - but could not win a NC. Horse a piece I guess.

Just remember the 2001 team had a lot of key players that were Roger Thomas recruits. He does deserve some of the credit for turning around the program which led to that NC.

[Matt]

Your opinion - but as some Sioux backers told me back in the day was Roger recruited & designed his D to stop the veer (NDSU). He knew that the way to the playoffs went through them. Smart on his part. Recruiting was made easiler when they reduced the scholarships down from 46 as a lot of NDSU's would be recruits went to other teams. Makes a big difference as you have to pick correctly with only 36 scholarships.

True, but it also highlights which staff did a better job in picking correctly using the exact same number of scholarships. UND did it better in the 90s, NDSU did it better (than most anyone in the nation) in the 80s.

[Bison Dan]

True, but it also highlights which staff did a better job in picking correctly using the exact same number of scholarships. UND did it better in the 90s, NDSU did it better (than most anyone in the nation) in the 80s.

Yeah I'll give you the 90's but all the games were close. But if for not for the reductions I think we retain the edge. An example is Mike Moony quote after UND won said he would have been at NDSU but they were out of scholarships. He turned out to be a star player for you guys and bone head move on Rocky's part. After the reduction to 36 a lot of NAIA and DIII schools jumped in and it really watered down the division. You have to get to the point when you put in the 2's you don't notice any drop in performance. After the Delta State BS that's when NDSU decided for sure to jump to I-AA.

[Wilbur]

Glad I finally got to see the Digger Anderson-Rod Malone play at the Alerus. I DVR'd the documentary and watched that play like ten times.

I don't like Rocky, but I'll agree with him that UND doesn't break the streak if Arden Beechy doesn't blow out his knee in a blowout game. Then again the year before if UND catches the ball in the end zone or kicks the game winning field goal instead of trying to force the ball into coverage it wouldn't have gotten to that point.

[geaux_sioux]

Yeah I'll give you the 90's but all the games were close. But if for not for the reductions I think we retain the edge. An example is Mike Moony quote after UND won said he would have been at NDSU but they were out of scholarships. He turned out to be a star player for you guys and bone head move on Rocky's part. After the reduction to 36 a lot of NAIA and DIII schools jumped in and it really watered down the division. You have to get to the point when you put in the 2's you don't notice any drop in performance. After the Delta State BS that's when NDSU decided for sure to jump to I-AA.

Mooney said nothing about them being out of scholarships, he wad told he was too small to be a Bison but that he would be a great locker room/weight room guy. In his words he said 'cheerleader in the weight room'. Ndsu has always used negative recruiting while und has always been positive. Why do you think UND usually gets more high character guys?

[Bison Dan]

Mooney said nothing about them being out of scholarships, he wad told he was too small to be a Bison but that he would be a great locker room/weight room guy. In his words he said 'cheerleader in the weight room'. Ndsu has always used negative recruiting while und has always been positive. Why do you think UND usually gets more high character guys?

Believe what you want.

[geaux_sioux]

Believe what you want.

First hand experience and I'm not the only one.

[Matt]

Yeah I'll give you the 90's but all the games were close. But if for not for the reductions I think we retain the edge. An example is Mike Moony quote after UND won said he would have been at NDSU but they were out of scholarships. He turned out to be a star player for you guys and bone head move on Rocky's part. After the reduction to 36 a lot of NAIA and DIII schools jumped in and it really watered down the division. You have to get to the point when you put in the 2's you don't notice any drop in performance. After the Delta State BS that's when NDSU decided for sure to jump to I-AA.

I recorded it so I'll rewatch it, but I don't recall Mooney's decision hinging on $. He told an embarrassing story about the ndsu recruiter which pushed him to choose Grand Forks.

Also, as long was we are talking about the big picture here, a guy named Joe Glenn got the head job at Northern Colorado in 1989 and by 1996 was on the front end of back to back national titles. It wasn't just Roger Thomas that was building a program while Hager's program was declining.