The Right Thing to do

[Benny Baker]

You say that like playing in Fargo would be a bad thing.

I would love to see the men's team play a game in Fargo. I live in Fargo, as do a lot of other Sioux fans. . . . why not play home games in two different cities?

Because one of, if not, the best hockey facility in world is 80 miles north of Fargo.

[fightingsioux4life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMkl04UgGc

The perfect spokesperson for the nickname-at-all-costs crowd!

[Fetch]

“It was unbelievable,” Gleason said. “I can’t say how cool it is as a player to see that many Sioux jerseys when you’re in Colorado — how many miles away from Grand Forks. I’ve been here before so I kind of knew it was coming, but I’m sure the younger guys were in awe. I can’t say enough about our fans – best in the nation.”

How long if ever will it be that Fans are as loyal ? If the name changes ?

I would say a long time because most true Fans will never drop the Fighting Sioux Name (at least in Hockey) other sports

[Fetch]

nice article http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/230550/group/homepage/

[Goon]

You say that like playing in Fargo would be a bad thing.

Nah! The fact that they have a home field advantage playing in their own arena and the mess it would cause them to have to move their team to Fargo for a series it would be a mess. Maybe you should talk to Derek the SID of woman's hockey and ask him what he thinks about that idea.

[yababy8]

nice article http://www.grandfork...group/homepage/

No comments from the peanut gallery on this one?

In 2008, they surveyed 1,200 people at Spirit Lake, asking how they felt about the nickname.

“Only about 50 said no,” Eunice said.

... I'm sure Eunice is FOS on this one. After all if it was true it would effectively mean that the NCAA's position of neglect toward the Sioux people would be so pathetic as to warrant public outcry right?

... Maybe it's time for the ACLU to get involved?

The NCAA IS depriving theSpirit Lake Sioux from being represented in a way/mannor the wish to be.

[dagies]

Look, everybody understands there is Native American support for the nickname, and that the nickname itself isn't causing anyone to have personal issues.

The simple fact remains that according to the agreement with the NCAA, UND needs the official approval of the 2 closest tribes and it only has that from 1. Therefore the sanctions remain in place.

The NCAA doesn't care about state laws or constitutions, because they don't have to. The issue is simple and has been stated many times before.

UND either needs to get Standing Rock to give approval or quit using the nickname in order to stay out from under the NCAA sanctions.

It's just that simple and there are no other alternatives available. Until the NCAA changes its stance UND is stuck in that rock and a hard place.

Some of us are looking at this as a practical matter, not a philosophical one.

[jodcon]

What exactly is anyone supposed to comment on?

That most of Spirit Lake wants to allow UND to allow the Sioux name?

That Standing Rock doesn't and is unwilling to even try?

That Davidson is a nickname supporter who goes the extra mile?

Is there something else?

Everybody here knows all that and almost everybody on both sides of the nickname issue would love to see Spirit Lake bring the NCAA to court and take them down on this issue, but that is a looooooooong way from happening, if ever, and UND cannot endure 5 or more years of crippling sanctions on the remote chance that they will be successful.

[Goon]

No comments from the peanut gallery on this one? In 2008, they surveyed 1,200 people at Spirit Lake, asking how they felt about the nickname. “Only about 50 said no,” Eunice said. ... I'm sure Eunice is FOS on this one. After all if it was true it would effectively mean that the NCAA's position of neglect toward the Sioux people would be so pathetic as to warrant public outcry right? ... Maybe it's time for the ACLU to get involved? The NCAA IS depriving theSpirit Lake Sioux from being represented in a way/mannor the wish to be.

It was an awesome article from Chuck Haga, but it does nothing in the way of getting NCAA approval for UND to keep the name. The NCAA doesn't care if there are 1000 of people that feel this way. Standing Rock didn't give approval for the name and the NCAA will not care about a state wide vote. Edited February 27, 2012 by Goon

[bincitysioux]

UND either needs to get Standing Rock to give approval or quit using the nickname in order to stay out from under the NCAA sanctions.

It's just that simple and there are no other alternatives available.

I'm no legal eagle, but I'm not even sure if it is that simple. The settelment required that both tribes give their consent by November of 2010. Unless we have a time-machine stored away somewhere, an affirmative vote and endorsement by Standing Rock tomorrow would be useless would it not?

My opinion is that the NCAA would view post-2010 support by Standing Rock about the same way that they viewed Carlson's idiotic law.

[homer]

You say that like playing in Fargo would be a bad thing.

I would love to see the men's team play a game in Fargo. I live in Fargo, as do a lot of other Sioux fans. It would be like back in the day when the Green Bay Packers used to play some of their home games at Milwaukee. When a team has such great support throughout the entire state, why not play home games in two different cities?

Don't you think there is a huge difference between choosing to play a game in Fargo and being forced to play a game in Fargo? I don't think you could have paid the Packers enough money to play a playoff game at a neutral location.

[ScottM]

The issue is simple and has been stated many times before. UND either needs to get Standing Rock to give approval or quit using the nickname in order to stay out from under the NCAA sanctions. It's just that simple and there are no other alternatives available. Until the NCAA changes its stance UND is stuck in that rock and a hard place. Some of us are looking at this as a practical matter, not a philosophical one.

Uh, no. UND needed that support in 2005-10. It did not get it. UND is now under sanctions for failing to get that support as outlined in the settlement agreement.

SR and SL could take out a billboard in Times Square expressing their undying love and support for UND keeping the Sioux moniker and giving them a 1000 years to use it today, and it still doesn't militate against the fact they didn't give that support during the required timeframe. The NC$$ would merely tap their enshrined copy of the settlement and smile.

[Fetch]

If that is true then our Legal System is even more Pathetic than I thought it was

[82SiouxGuy]

If that is true then our Legal System is even more Pathetic than I thought it was

It's called a contract. You negotiate terms and put them on paper. You can't change the terms of a contract just because you decide you don't like them. If you could, the contract would be worthless and no one would even bother writing them.

[ScottM]

It's called a contract. You negotiate terms and put them on paper. You can't change the terms of a contract just because you decide you don't like them. If you could, the contract would be worthless and no one would even bother writing them.

And most contracts allow for sanctions as agreed by the parties, such as what UND is seeing now for its failure to obtain tribal approval and still using the Sioux moniker, and/or other forms of legal redress, e.g., "breach of contract" claims.

[yababy8]

Uh, no. UND needed that support in 2005-10. It did not get it. UND is now under sanctions for failing to get that support as outlined in the settlement agreement.

SR and SL could take out a billboard in Times Square expressing their undying love and support for UND keeping the Sioux moniker and giving them a 1000 years to use it today, and it still doesn't militate against the fact they didn't give that support during the required timeframe. The NC$$ would merely tap their enshrined copy of the settlement and smile.

but surely the ncaa would respect the wishes of the Sioux people right?

after all they were the ones that were advocating for them in the first place.

[jodcon]

but surely the ncaa would respect the wishes of the Sioux people right?

after all they were the ones that were advocating for them in the first place.

IF Standing Rocks leaders would suddenly decide to let a vote of their people decide their stance and IF that vote came back with 95% of enrolled members favoring UND keeping the name and IF the NCAA then agreed to let Standing Rock present their results and make a case for the nickname...then...the NCAA would probably not budge anyway.

I just can't see them revisiting a battle they have already won unless they are forced to legally.

[ScottM]

IF Standing Rocks leaders would suddenly decide to let a vote of their people decide their stance and IF that vote came back with 95% of enrolled members favoring UND keeping the name and IF the NCAA then agreed to let Standing Rock present their results and make a case for the nickname...then...the NCAA would probably not budge anyway. I just can't see them revisiting a battle they have already won unless they are forced to legally.

You would think that the wheezy academics who run the NC$$ actually care about the perceived/actual wishes of tribal members. However, they are on a mission, as enumerated in 2005, and before, to remove Native American imagery from the athletic landscape. Their own hypocrisy in this regard is lost on them. Moreover, the sanctions imposed UND are serving as a valuable "object lesson" to the rest of the membership on this issue.

[homer]

but surely the ncaa would respect the wishes of the Sioux people right?

after all they were the ones that were advocating for them in the first place.

The NCAA is advocating for them about as much as Al Carlson.

[UNDColorado]

How long if ever will it be that Fans are as loyal ? If the name changes ?

I would say a long time because most true Fans will never drop the Fighting Sioux Name (at least in Hockey) other sports

True fans will still support the institution. I was there in a Sioux jersey and I am for dropping the name (because of the current situation) but even if we drop the name I will still wear my Sioux jersey. The ncaa does not give a crap what you wear to the game so I say keep wearing the jerseys. They do care what we are known as. What we are currently known as is leading us down a road we do NOT want to take as an institution.

My point is true UND fans like me who live down here will still be going to the games and true UND fans will still be traveling to the games. Nothing on that front will change.

[yababy8]

True fans will still support the institution. I was there in a Sioux jersey and I am for dropping the name (because of the current situation) but even if we drop the name I will still wear my Sioux jersey. The ncaa does not give a crap what you wear to the game so I say keep wearing the jerseys. They do care what we are known as. What we are currently known as is leading us down a road we do NOT want to take as an institution.

My point is true UND fans like me who live down here will still be going to the games and true UND fans will still be traveling to the games. Nothing on that front will change.

Magness arena will surely look the same when the Sioux come to town in 10 years when all those Sioux Jerseys will start to look all tattered and faded out huh?

Of course we can still roar out and the home of the SIOUX with the same conviction and hopefully the players will give us the stick salute like they did after the anthem this last Sat night..

[yababy8]

The NCAA is advocating for them about as much as Al Carlson.

Great point!!!

[zonadub]

..

The simple fact remains that according to the agreement with the NCAA, UND needs the official approval of the 2 closest tribes and it only has that from 1. Therefore the sanctions remain in place.

...

if this part of your statement is correct, dagies, then we have been barking up the wrong tree. Standing Rock is not the second closest tribe: Sisseton-Wahpeton is 135 miles away from Grand Forks, Standing Rock is well over 200, even on a direct course. Why isn't the save the nickname movement working with the Sisseton tribe since Standing Rock's Tribal Council refuses to help?

[82SiouxGuy]

if this part of your statement is correct, dagies, then we have been barking up the wrong tree. Standing Rock is not the second closest tribe: Sisseton-Wahpeton is 135 miles away from Grand Forks, Standing Rock is well over 200, even on a direct course. Why isn't the save the nickname movement working with the Sisseton tribe since Standing Rock's Tribal Council refuses to help?

The settlement agreement named Spirit Lake and Standing Rock. It does not say the 2 closest tribes.

[Fetch]

Just don't wear the logo or use the name during ncaa events (not the end of the world)

http://www.devilslakejournal.com/newsnow/x1142166915/NCAA-Dont-bring-Fighting-Sioux-name-to-playoffs