WeAreNorthDakota Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The only option at this point is to retire the nickname and hope that Spirit Lake wins their lawsuit against the NCAA. If the lawsuit causes the NCAA to remove UND from the hostile and abusive list, we transition right back to the Fighting Sioux. Passing this vote and using the nickname despite NCAA sanctions is absolutely not an option. The damage done to the athletic program in the 3-5 years it could take to resolve the lawsuit would likely be insurmountable. Hell, the athletic department may not even be in existence by the time the lawsuit is resolved. Then we'd have a nickname and logo but no teams to cheer for. Is that what you nickname supporters want? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach daddy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Plain and simple by a guy who has not spoken on the nickname issue on this site. If we end up "using" this nickname any longer than than this school year, the following will happen down the road: 1) We will be dismissed from the Big Sky conference in all sports. 2) We will be removed from from our new hockey conference before play ever begins. 3) You will see just how many schools refuse to play us any longer. This list will include all the state schools in Minnesota, The Univ. of Wisconsin, The Univ. of Iowa, and probably several others, especially in college hockey, who have yet to speak on the subject. 4) There will be a mass exodus of coaches and athletes from our university because they will no longer be allowed to compete for championships, at home or on the road, simply because of a nickname and logo. 5) We will be relegated to a Unversity with no one to play and then the debate can be about why are we playing at all? This is not about the fans/supporters of the nickname. It is about what's best for the athlete's and the University. I wish everyone could understand who is really getting hurt here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I don't understand. What throw did you see? This made me laugh so hard that I almost through up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 typical to quote one of my Hillbilly friends "I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 typical to quote one of my Hillbilly friends "I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way" Yes, that's typical of the nonsense you normally post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 your option means you gave up - ................................ Your option means you gave up on about 400 student-athletes.......................even the ones who skate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I respect your opinion, so I'm not picking on you. I do business all over the globe and as a GF native, I've sent many corporations to recruit at UND for grads. There is always room for compromise. UND's current management needs to find a way. You seem to miss the point that UND is not negotiating on equal footing with the NCAA. The NCAA holds all of the cards right now. It is there little fraternity and they make their won rules. UND's current management and the state legislature attempted other ways ( we passed legislation forcing UND to keep the name, after UND was trying to comply with the agreement, We asked for more time because the Standing Rock Tribal Council won't let their people decide on the issue. The clear answer was that state legislation is irrelevant to the NCAA and the agreement requires permission from both tribes. The one area we might get them to copromise on is the fact that we also didn't meet the deadline in order to keep the name without sanctions but even that might be wishful thinking. NDSU and University of Mary fans, who are the other state schhols with NCAA afiliation need to be wary of the state passing this into law. You don't want to find out too late that they are able to declare an entire state sanctioned for state laws whether that be the state flag or a state law invilving a minority group. That would be as big of a disaster for them as this is for us. I am not aware of any move on the part of the NCAA that they would consider this because I ahve no idea what they are up to. As a fan of intercollegiate atheltics in the state of N.Dak. I would make sure we vote this measure down. That won't keep us from reviving the name at a future date, but none of our schools can afford to have long term sanctions by the NCAA and we can't afford to take the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 "That won't keep us from reviving the name at a future date" Get Kelly & Fasion to say that & I would agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 That won't keep us from reviving the name at a future date Get Kelly & Fasion to say that & I would agree They can't do that for a lot of reasons. The main one being that no one knows if either one will be around by the time the Spirit Lake lawsuit is done. As has been said, that could take many years. No one can promise what others will do in the future. EDIT: And actually, Faison has said that it could be brought back in the future depending on what else happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Well just saying they want to keep the name once would be kinda nice & say if they are still here they would be 100 % in favor & do all they can to bring it back - I don't think they will do that either so the referral is at the least keeping hope alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 "That won't keep us from reviving the name at a future date" Get Kelly & Fasion to say that & I would agree Faison has said it publically and privately Kelly isn't opposed to the name as long as we don't have sanctions. He was wearing logo gear less than a year ago. These two guys are not the enemy nor are they the problem. You might try going in a meeting these guys. (leave your pink lady friend in the pick-up). Until you hear them say I doubt you will believe anyone else. The enemy is the NCAA and the problem is the entry to the Big Sky. If we had to live with the sanctions until the SL litigation works its way through the system it would be a bitter pill to swallow but we would be OK. I'm afraid it would hurt the hockey teams more than the other sports because of scheduling and the advantage of last line change when you are playing away. . Home field advantage in BB and FB are more psychological because of the fan support and that can be overcome. Baseball also benefits from batting last but I don't know how they choose there playoff sites. We cannot exist without a conference. We aren't Notre Dame and they have had to bite the bullet in most sports except for FB which for now still stands alone. We can't do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Teeder11 Posted February 12, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 12, 2012 Ira is spot on here. Despite the popular narrative rolled out often and ignorantly by the save-the-name-at-all-costs crowd, Kelley and Faison are not and never have been against the name and logo because they believe it is disrespectful to American Indians. That is and always has been the NCAA's contention -- and a pathetically arrogant and misinformed one at that. Lumping Kelley and Faison in with that lot is a red herring . Kelley and Faison have always been friends of the name, as long as it came without sanctions or there was an endgame that didn't expose the University to potential harm. The deception campaign that is espoused by Fetch (or maybe he truly believes it.) and the gang riles the troops and may garner a few ill-informed converts along the way, but I can honestly say, it is patently false. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Rob Port, along with Carlson and others, continue to let slip what their real intention is behind the support given for the petitions and nickname fight. As I've stated multiple times, his crusade is one against Higher Ed and taking it down. The UND nickname is the first thing that he's been able to harp on that has got the attention he has wanted. While I hate to give more hits to his website, this is exactly what he has going for all along. He wants the SBoHE to screw up or make a mistake to get the public to go against them ultimately leading to their demise. He has no concern of leaving UND or its athletic department in ashes. Those of you who think he's leading you are being led astray. He may say the right things, but his end game is much different than yours. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeAreNorthDakota Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Well just saying they want to keep the name once would be kinda nice & say if they are still here they would be 100 % in favor & do all they can to bring it back - I don't think they will do that either so the referral is at the least keeping hope alive They are both in favor of keeping the name ONLY if it is without NCAA sanctions. They are paid to do what is best for the University of North Dakota and right now keeping the name is absolutely not what is best for the university. They've done what they can to save the name but the failure to comply with the settlement agreement and state law not changing the mind of the NCAA leaves them with no choice but to retire the nickname. A new nickname will not be introduced and if by some miracle the Spirit Lake lawsuit is successful in removing the sanctions, Kelly and Faison will not hesitate to transition back to the Fighting Sioux. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 "Kelly and Faison will not hesitate to transition back to the Fighting Sioux." I have my doubts & so do many others - BIG TIME - so from the top http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq3co1VFL9Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 One good thing that has come of this debate is we officially know what the "die-hard" hockey fans think of the rest of the athletic department. Not all hockey fans, but the hard-core ones. I hope all the UND basketball, football, and volleyball fans out there remember this for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm not so sure that's the best way to classify them. I would say that the battle right now is between the "nickname at all cost" crowd (not necessarily just die hard hockey fans) vs the "pro-university crowd" which includes nickname supporters but this group is looking out for the best interests of the University as a whole. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm not so sure that's the best way to classify them. I would say that the battle right now is between the "nickname at all cost" crowd (not necessarily just die hard hockey fans) vs the "pro-university crowd" which includes nickname supporters but this group is looking out for the best interests of the University as a whole. ....and what is the main sport of the"nickname at all costs" crowd? Go back and look at the comments from that "crowd" once they were pushed about their thoughts on the "other sports". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 ....and what is the main sport of the"nickname at all costs" crowd? Go back and look at the comments from that "crowd" once they were pushed about their thoughts on the "other sports". I think his point is that it isn't quite that cut and dried. A majority of the nickname-at-all-costs crowd are probably hockey only fans. But not all of them. I know some people that are interested in all sports, but don't believe that anything bad will happen. And I know some hockey-only fans that do see the problems and believe it is time to change. Even some Bison fans that also like UND hockey realize that it would be best for the University as a whole to make the change. So it isn't as simple as hockey-only versus everyone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 ....and what is the main sport of the"nickname at all costs" crowd? Go back and look at the comments from that "crowd" once they were pushed about their thoughts on the "other sports". I agree that many of die hard hockey fans are "nickname at all cost." There are also die hard football, basketball, etc. fans that plan to vote in favor of keeping the name because they don't understand all of the ramifications. I guess the point I was trying to make is that the "nickname at all cost" crowd isn't looking at the big picture and how it can affect the University. Maybe I should have said there are three groups. A "Nickname at all cost" group, a pro-nickname group (want to keep the name but don't understand all of the ramifications of doing so) and a "pro-University" group. If UND's administration is able to educate the pro-nickname group to understand all of the ramifications of voting to keep the name, perhaps they can get them to become pro-university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 One good thing that has come of this debate is we officially know what the "die-hard" hockey fans think of the rest of the athletic department. Not all hockey fans, but the hard-core ones. I hope all the UND basketball, football, and volleyball fans out there remember this for the future. Really? How is that at all good for UND? And hoping to remember? For what? More divisive commentary at that time? To say "I told you so"? What good does that do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Your option means you gave up on about 400 student-athletes.......................even the ones who skate. Gave up on the student athletes? Anyone recruited knows there is no chance at home playoff ncaa sanctioned games(at least the ones recruited from here on out). This is about the fans wanting to see winners. Not about caring for the student athletes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 One good thing that has come of this debate is we officially know what the "die-hard" hockey fans think of the rest of the athletic department. Not all hockey fans, but the hard-core ones. I hope all the UND basketball, football, and volleyball fans out there remember this for the future. I am a die hard UND hockey fan but also a die hard FB, VB, MBB, WBB, Swimming, Baseball, Track and University fan. This is as important for hockey's future as it is for FB, BB etc. Some don't see it because they refuse to believe what those in the know are telling them. Frank Burgraff is maybe a hockey only guy. He doesn't remember or probably doesn't care about all of the Sioux FB, BB, Baseball, Track coaches who went to bat for Gino when Miller was not going to give hime a shot at the hockey job. Those guys are not UND hockey nor is anyone person. UND hockey is about all of those guys, coaches, cheerleaders, fans who supported the team over the years to enable them to be in a position to win 7 championships. I will remember Frank's stance and how it is hurting UND but I don't want anything bad to happen to hockey. I didn't like Haks email to support the flawed legislation but I want him t continue as our coach and I hope he wins 3 or 4 championships before he is done. I hope people closer to him than we are will remind him how UND athletics is a family who have benfited from the successes of each other over the years and we may need his help lobbying hockey fans to defeat this measure. I would guess he speaks to other college coaches who see no problems with the NCAA sanctions. UND administrators speak to college presidents and AD's and seem to be learning otherwise. This is a University matter and it is as important to the future of hockey as it is to the other sports. We simply can't afford to be sanctioned by the NCAA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I am a die hard UND hockey fan but also a die hard FB, VB, MBB, WBB, Swimming, Baseball, Track and University fan. This is as important for hockey's future as it is for FB, BB etc. Some don't see it because they refuse to believe what those in the know are telling them. Frank Burgraff is maybe a hockey only guy. He doesn't remember or probably doesn't care about all of the Sioux FB, BB, Baseball, Track coaches who went to bat for Gino when Miller was not going to give hime a shot at the hockey job. Those guys are not UND hockey nor is anyone person. UND hockey is about all of those guys, coaches, cheerleaders, fans who supported the team over the years to enable them to be in a position to win 7 championships. I will remember Frank's stance and how it is hurting UND but I don't want anything bad to happen to hockey. I didn't like Haks email to support the flawed legislation but I want him t continue as our coach and I hope he wins 3 or 4 championships before he is done. I hope people closer to him than we are will remind him how UND athletics is a family who have benfited from the successes of each other over the years and we may need his help lobbying hockey fans to defeat this measure. I would guess he speaks to other college coaches who see no problems with the NCAA sanctions. UND administrators speak to college presidents and AD's and seem to be learning otherwise. This is a University matter and it is as important to the future of hockey as it is to the other sports. We simply can't afford to be sanctioned by the NCAA. You said it much better than me, well written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feff Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The true moral of this thread is that Fetch can say something totally ridiculous and utterly stupid and get people to argue with him, even though it's like arguing with a spoiled child. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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