Rick Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Kelley said the transition “will not include any ban on wearing Fighting Sioux clothing at athletic events,” but he asked that fans who do wear or display the nickname and logo to “do so in a manner that is respectful to American Indians.” http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/223266/ I wonder if he's talking about the same "manner of respect" that he has shown to the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I think Kelley signed on to a thankless task. I won't bag on him for trying to do what's best for the school over the long-term. Even Tom Clifford would have probably had difficulty protecting the school with the same facts. The nickname went on life-support as soon as the ink hit the settlement with the NC$$. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Right or wrong, President Kelley will be vilified for decades regarding the name. I have heard and seen a LOT of anger directed towards him. Checkout the Fighting Sioux Facebook page for some of what I'm talking about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobIwabuchiFan Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Sometimes that is the cost of leadership...not going to be liked by everyone... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Sometimes that is the cost of leadership...not going to be liked by everyone... If only he had fought for the name like Kupchella did towards the end of his time here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 If only he had fought for the name like Kupchella did towards the end of his time here. Fight with what? The name was effectively dying when he took office. He signed on to do what's best for the school, not fight a futile battle with the NC$$ as UND was moving to D1. We saw some of the potential issues that arose after Clueless Al joined the fray. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bisonh8er Posted December 7, 2011 Popular Post Share Posted December 7, 2011 It doesn't matter if it would have been a losing battle. The fact of the matter is that he didn't support the school he made the school support him. He threw all of the supporters of the name under the bus for the sake of being politically correct. He has never said anything positive about the name but instead let the name supporters get bashed by a vocal minority. The perception is that he forced the name out more than he ever supported the name. Perception is reality, and Kelly will forever be known as the president that let the name die, justified or not. The worst part is that outside of the nickname controversy I think Kelly has been very good for the school. The problem is that there was so many ways he could have handled the controversy and he picked one of the worst ways to handle it by not doing anything and people will never forget it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fight with what? The name was effectively dying when he took office. He signed on to do what's best for the school, not fight a futile battle with the NC$$ as UND was moving to D1. We saw some of the potential issues that arose after Clueless Al joined the fray. If he had given the ILLUSION of a fight, it would have helped. Also, his press conferences and press releases haven't done much to help how people perceive him in the community. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 It doesn't matter if it would have been a losing battle. The fact of the matter is that he didn't support the school he made the school support him. He threw all of the supporters of the name under the bus for the sake of being politically correct. He has never said anything positive about the name but instead let the name supporters get bashed by a vocal minority. The perception is that he forced the name out more than he ever supported the name. Perception is reality, and Kelly will forever be known as the president that let the name die, justified or not. Reality? More like "reality distortion field" from some quarters. The settlement was signed before Kelley set foot on campus. Therefore, the name was dying off, unless SR and SL agreed to save it. SL shows up after the fight is over and launches into some half-assed claim about "discrimination". Clueless Al for his own political gain turns the issue into a political football which could have had a dramatic, negative impact on the school. Then we hear from the Clueless Choir on this board who think the name is larger than the school and openly talked about going NAIA, staying at D2, staying in the GW, passing an initiative, thought the issue was "political", mused about suing the NC$$ (again) etc., all so they could continue to wear their stained, worn out Sioux gear and not give a damn about what happened to the school. As I said, I doubt Tom Clifford could have done much more than Kelley with the same facts, save express his own personal pride in the name, but the result would probably be the same. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Kelley said the transition “will not include any ban on wearing Fighting Sioux clothing at athletic events,” but he asked that fans who do wear or display the nickname and logo to “do so in a manner that is respectful to American Indians.” http://www.grandfork...icle/id/223266/ I wonder if he's talking about the same "manner of respect" that he has shown to the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes? I don't see how they could ban wearing Sioux items at events. That would seem to me to have serious free speech and free expression issues. While I do think for the good of the entire state this issue needs to be put to rest, stopping people from wearing these items to a University event makes my liberal blood boil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Kelley said the transition “will not include any ban on wearing Fighting Sioux clothing at athletic events,” but he asked that fans who do wear or display the nickname and logo to “do so in a manner that is respectful to American Indians.” http://www.grandfork...icle/id/223266/ I wonder if he's talking about the same "manner of respect" that he has shown to the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes? Maybe this is intended for that certain school in Fargo. They love to express how they feel about UND on their shirts. Kelley said the Alerus has agreed to remove Fighting Sioux logos there. Besides the Sioux in the endzones has there ever been a Sioux "logo" in the Alerus? I don't think I have ever seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Maybe this is intended for that certain school in Fargo. They love to express how they feel about UND on their shirts. If those are the shirts I am thinking of, I have no use for them either. I don't think you should be able to ban them, but fans wearing them are pretty damn classless given all the issues with the nickname and the issue of disrespectful use of the name. I must admit I had one of those shirts in undergrad school many years ago......but those were different times. Now it is relegated to a box of old college stuff (as well as being way to small for the current version of WYOBISONMAN to wear.... ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 If those are the shirts I am thinking of, I have no use for them either. I don't think you should be able to ban them, but fans wearing them are pretty damn classless given all the issues with the nickname and the issue of disrespectful use of the name. I must admit I had one of those shirts in undergrad school many years ago......but those were different times. Now it is relegated to a box of old college stuff (as well as being way to small for the current version of WYOBISONMAN to wear.... ). I had no problem with people saying Sioux Suck except 1. people start thinking they must mean the people not the team (although as stupid as it sounds), 2. NDSU fans would chant that at a NDSU vs XXXX game makes no sense. Makes you wonder at the NDSU-UND basketball game. UND will not be the Sioux (Dec 31st), what are those fans going to chant? Dakota sucks? UND sucks, Nodaks suck? Just not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochsioux Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Kelley said the transition “will not include any ban on wearing Fighting Sioux clothing at athletic events,” but he asked that fans who do wear or display the nickname and logo to “do so in a manner that is respectful to American Indians.” http://www.grandfork...icle/id/223266/ I wonder if he's talking about the same "manner of respect" that he has shown to the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes? In the FAQ posted on the nickname web site, Kelley said the transition “will not include any ban on wearing Fighting Sioux clothing at athletic events,” but he asked that fans who do wear or display the nickname and logo to “do so in a manner that is respectful to American Indians.” The university expects, he added, “that fans will want to support our student athletes by wearing official team apparel.” They really expect that ? Not now, not next year, not for a long, long. long time, maybe never. They are shoveling dirt on the nickname coffin and he is already talking about expecting people to switch to the new "official team apparel". Show some respect for the Fighting Sioux nickname and don't even comment on what people will wear to games. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I have green blood running out of my mouth from biting my tongue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Kelley was also pleased to announce that concession stands would immediately phase out "siouxper dogs" and that the popular item would be replaced with the administration approved "Soylent Green." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chewey Posted December 8, 2011 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2011 Kelley should be bagged on for his lack of candor, lack of leadership and lack of respect for the nickname and logo. He has talked and still does talk out of both sides of his mouth. So, we're supposed to be retiring the nickname and logo with "dignity and respect" but buffoon Peter Johnson uses imagery such as "scrubbing" and "hunting down." I don't buy this pixelated contradiction. This crew has not shown leadership at all. I am sure that when UND joined the Big Sky a contract or some other document memorializing things was duly drafted, reviewed and signed. I would be surprised if that is not how such things are routinely done. I am sure that had the Big Sky booted UND, there would likely have been a damages clause that would have been employed. This is likely why the Commissioner only gave opaque and obscure treatment of the matter from which innuendo only could be drawn. I am pretty sure that was intentional and I am pretty sure that this is why. At this point, Kelley, Faison, Shaft, et al have achieved the point of no return. Retirement of the nickname is tantamount to career preservation, pure and simple. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I'm troubled that the Athletic Department is hunting down Fighting Sioux-related websites/social network sites, such as Facebook, and threatening trade mark infringement. Shows the true intent of this administration; lack of departmental oversight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Kelley should be bagged on for his lack of candor, lack of leadership and lack of respect for the nickname and logo. He has talked and still does talk out of both sides of his mouth. So, we're supposed to be retiring the nickname and logo with "dignity and respect" but buffoon Peter Johnson uses imagery such as "scrubbing" and "hunting down." I don't buy this pixelated contradiction. This crew has not shown leadership at all. You could have stopped with this and I still would have given you a "+1". Kelly has been nothing short of embarrassing since he arrived at UND IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I had no problem with people saying Sioux Suck except 1. people start thinking they must mean the people not the team (although as stupid as it sounds), 2. NDSU fans would chant that at a NDSU vs XXXX game makes no sense. Makes you wonder at the NDSU-UND basketball game. UND will not be the Sioux (Dec 31st), what are those fans going to chant? Dakota sucks? UND sucks, Nodaks suck? Just not the same. Like the "Eff the Gophers" chants that regularly resonate from the student section during Fighting Sioux games not involving the Gophers at the REA? I guess I look at it as a rivalry situation. No biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Kelley should be bagged on for his lack of candor, lack of leadership and lack of respect for the nickname and logo. He has talked and still does talk out of both sides of his mouth. So, we're supposed to be retiring the nickname and logo with "dignity and respect" but buffoon Peter Johnson uses imagery such as "scrubbing" and "hunting down." I don't buy this pixelated contradiction. This crew has not shown leadership at all. I am sure that when UND joined the Big Sky a contract or some other document memorializing things was duly drafted, reviewed and signed. I would be surprised if that is not how such things are routinely done. I am sure that had the Big Sky booted UND, there would likely have been a damages clause that would have been employed. This is likely why the Commissioner only gave opaque and obscure treatment of the matter from which innuendo only could be drawn. I am pretty sure that was intentional and I am pretty sure that this is why. At this point, Kelley, Faison, Shaft, et al have achieved the point of no return. Retirement of the nickname is tantamount to career preservation, pure and simple. Conferences and schools always sign legal agreement prior to a conference announcement, to protect all the parties. Entrance and exit fees don't apply without these contracts. Guess Kelley and the SBoHE assumed UND alumni and fans are too big of rubes to realize that. The Big Sky would have subjected itself to major financial losses if the Big Sky kicked UND for reasons not in the contract. As an example of what occurs before a school joins a conference: Tuesday's Newark Star-Ledger: Big East finalizing legal paperwork prior to admitting five schools http://www.nj.com/ru...e_of_addin.html Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, Cincinnati and Connecticut — met tonight in New York City to review the remaining expansion details. One official characterized the process as being “very close,” with the other saying that legal paperwork is the only remaining obstacle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Peter Johnson...hmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It doesn't matter if it would have been a losing battle. The fact of the matter is that he didn't support the school he made the school support him. He threw all of the supporters of the name under the bus for the sake of being politically correct. He has never said anything positive about the name but instead let the name supporters get bashed by a vocal minority. The perception is that he forced the name out more than he ever supported the name. Perception is reality, and Kelly will forever be known as the president that let the name die, justified or not. The worst part is that outside of the nickname controversy I think Kelly has been very good for the school. The problem is that there was so many ways he could have handled the controversy and he picked one of the worst ways to handle it by not doing anything and people will never forget it. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 UND will not be the Sioux (Dec 31st), what are those fans going to chant? Dakota sucks? UND sucks, Nodaks suck? Just not the same. If UND no longer has a moniker, if NDSU fans use that term they must be referring to people from SL and SR. Personally I hope NDSU fans chant their favorite chant. Then I'll be contacting the NCAA and demanding that they enforce their nice little blurb read before games about " ... racist taunts ... not being acceptable ... and ground for removal ..." Heck, maybe I should give the NCAA a little heads-up now considering there's an NCAA playoff game (not involving UND even) where it'll probably be heard this weekend. Wouldn't that be a hoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I get the satire about this issue, but really, if you can't say the other team sucks then we are really in deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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