Conference Realignments - Take 2

[darell1976]

On 8/8/2017 at 5:28 PM, Gothmog said:

You really don't think that it's a bit hypocritical to complain about others doing exactly what you've been doing? Pretty much every conference you've been a member of for the last ten years has been unstable.

At least we have never been part of a conference that had a shot at losing an auto bid like the SL did. We bring stability to the revolving door conference next year. 

[The Sicatoka]

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

These are the moves coming up, ImHO.

MVC takes Murray St and ORU.

Horizon takes IPFW and Robert Morris.

OVC takes W Illinois and S Indiana or Lindenwood from DII.

Later, the Horizon takes Omaha and UMKC.

Jake and Elwood can explain.

[JohnboyND7]

32 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

At least we have never been part of a conference that had a shot at losing an auto bid like the SL did. We bring stability to the revolving door conference next year. 

You are literally joining a conference that will likely need to get creative again in a year or two. Sorry to burst your bubble. 

[darell1976]

17 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

You are literally joining a conference that will likely need to get creative again in a year or two. Sorry to burst your bubble. 

With the addition of UND the shift is definately towards I-29 and away from Indiana. Unless the MVC implodes and poaches the Summit League, I think we are going to make the conference the most stabilized it's been since the SU's joined.

[zonadub]

6 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

With the addition of UND the shift is definately towards I-29 and away from Indiana. Unless the MVC implodes and poaches the Summit League, I think we are going to make the conference the most stabilized it's been since the SU's joined.

Sorry Darrell, have to ask what is stable about a 5 team conference?

 

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Don't think UMKC wants to associate with Dakota schools, which is why they left for the WAC.  Conference affiliation with a bunch of Dakotas is looked at very negatively, as we don't have tv sets in numbers or great recruiting. UMKC doesn't see a need to broaden it's awaredness in the Dakotas.  Hockey is an exception, which is why Denver stays in the near term.

These are the moves coming up, ImHO.

MVC takes Murray St and ORU.

Horizon takes IPFW and Robert Morris.

OVC takes W Illinois and S Indiana or Lindenwood from DII.

Later, the Horizon takes Omaha and UMKC.

Leaves the 4 Dakotas and Denver

[darell1976]

37 minutes ago, zonadub said:

Sorry Darrell, have to ask what is stable about a 5 team conference?

 

Leaves the 4 Dakotas and Denver

It's stable as long as SV's honest opinion doesn't come true, in the latest history of the NCAA's musical chairs of conference moving might. Who knows after we join the SL we could be invited to another conference.

[SiouxVolley]

Kennedy knows precisely what will happen IMHO.  The Montanas, Idaho and EWU will join, and any eastern Summit teams that are left will have more reason to depart.

[Rick]

Kennedy better know what's going to happen.  Otherwise, leaving a great conference like the Big Sky with like-minded schools Montana, Montana State, Idaho, EWU, NAU, Cal Poly & UC-Davis makes no sense. 

[The Sicatoka]

10 hours ago, Rick said:

Kennedy better know what's going to happen.  Otherwise, leaving a great conference like the Big Sky with like-minded schools Montana, Montana State, Idaho, EWU, NAU, Cal Poly & UC-Davis makes no sense. 

Dang. I just agreed with Rick.  

[Yote 53]

12 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Kennedy knows precisely what will happen IMHO.  The Montanas, Idaho and EWU will join, and any eastern Summit teams that are left will have more reason to depart.

One could say that right now the process of trimming the fat is happening.  Take the 4 Dakotas and Denver (Summit) and join them with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and one more (UNC?) and it would be the perfect conference.

Then the debate will be where to hold the Summit League Tournament.  Sioux Falls will be seen as too favorable to SDSU and USD, but it would still get tremendous support.  Simple answer is to move it a little further west and make it more centrally located.  Rapid City would make a great host city and provide a lot of other entertainment options too.

Now that we have this all figured out for Douple, etc. it's up to them to make it happen.

[jdub27]

11 hours ago, Rick said:

Kennedy better know what's going to happen.  Otherwise, leaving a great conference like the Big Sky with like-minded schools Montana, Montana State, Idaho, EWU, NAU, Cal Poly & UC-Davis makes no sense. 

Not exactly sure what Kennedy does or doesn't know, but in terms of costs, the move made a ton of sense, especially with the huge budget slashes coming down from the state.

I'd argue UND's only true peers in the Big Sky are UM, MSU and Idaho. Tough to count Cal-Poly and UC-Davis when they are affiliate members for football only. 

UND has just as many, if not more, like-minded schools in the Summit with NDSU, SDSU, USD and Denver.

This isn't an argument that the Big Sky doesn't have some advantages over the Summit **coughstabilitycough** but there are definite reasons for both. Since the decision has been made, hopefully UND can help be part of the solution that stops the revolving door in and out of the Summit.

 

[SiouxVolley]

2 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

One could say that right now the process of trimming the fat is happening.  Take the 4 Dakotas and Denver (Summit) and join them with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and one more (UNC?) and it would be the perfect conference.

Then the debate will be where to hold the Summit League Tournament.  Sioux Falls will be seen as too favorable to SDSU and USD, but it would still get tremendous support.  Simple answer is to move it a little further west and make it more centrally located.  Rapid City would make a great host city and provide a lot of other entertainment options too.

Now that we have this all figured out for Douple, etc. it's up to them to make it happen.

I'd argue that Douple is gone no matter what.  Douple has always seemed clueless.

The tournament will probably be moved around to Billings, Spokane, Bismarck and Sioux Falls, with the women and men being separate as a condition of the western teams being added.

Taking four Big Sky teams wouldn't destroy that conference but taking five could.  The Montanas and Idaho won't allow that.

[SiouxVolley]

On 8/9/2017 at 4:32 PM, SWSiouxMN said:

I would hope that the Horizon can make their moves sooner rather than later because I would think the Summit would like to get another team in at the same time UND is going in for 2018-19.

Lets say for the sake of argument that for whatever reason, IFPW decides to hang tight and stay in the Summit.   Does that mean the likelihood that they just target old soulmate UMKC and call it good for now increase? 

 

Should add that IPFW debated moving back to DII when it splits into PUFW and a much smaller IUFW.  PUFW decided on DI in part because Fort Wayne will sport a new arena downtown that should be available by 2019.  The  Horizon takes kindly to new and renovated arenas, as witnessed by them just adding IUPUI and NKU.  If PUFW thought it be stuck in the Summit, it would have dropped to DII.  PUFW and Robert Morris move into new digs almost at the same time, which gets the Horizon's attention. The Horizon has always been a dream for eastern Summit schools, like Oakland, IUPUI, Valpo, and Green Bay, Milwaukee, Wright St, Cleveland  St before them.  The only schools not to make it are E Ill, W Ill, and Chicago St, which have no proven basketball roots.

Any Big Sky school move to the Summit will be one years notice for Olympics and two years for football for no exit fees.  Otherwise, there would be a big cost.

[SanDakotaState]

12 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

One could say that right now the process of trimming the fat is happening.  Take the 4 Dakotas and Denver (Summit) and join them with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and one more (UNC?) and it would be the perfect conference.

Then the debate will be where to hold the Summit League Tournament.  Sioux Falls will be seen as too favorable to SDSU and USD, but it would still get tremendous support.  Simple answer is to move it a little further west and make it more centrally located.  Rapid City would make a great host city and provide a lot of other entertainment options too.

Now that we have this all figured out for Douple, etc. it's up to them to make it happen.

There is no way in hell that the tournament will be moved to Rapid City unless they build a new arena and they put together a better proposal than Sioux Falls. The Rushmore Plaza Civic Center is a terrible venue and is not up to par for a D1 conference tournament. The SLT makes tons of money and is one of the best conference tournaments in all of the NCAA. Why fix it if it isn't broken? The coaches might not like it but i bet the players love playing in front of a crowd instead of an empty gym like they are used to. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

 

BTW, I have no clue why everyone is hating on Douple. Just because he doesn't say anything in the media doesn't mean that isn't out looking for other members. In my opinion the the league has improved every year since he became commissioner in 2004. I don't care that schools are leaving (like IUPUI for example). He is bringing in new schools that the fit the region better like when he brought in Denver and UNO (they aren't leaving anytime soon- just a hunch).  Hopefully Fort Wayne leaves once Douple finds a school to replace them with. 

[jdub27]

14 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Any Big Sky school move to the Summit will be one years notice for Olympics and two years for football for no exit fees.  Otherwise, there would be a big cost.

I've already shown that this isn't true. There is no distinction between exit periods for Olympic sports and football in the by-laws. UND is fully leaving the conference in all sports at the same time, however they are keeping a "scheduling alliance" for football in the interim until they move into the MVFC.

 

9 hours ago, SanDakotaState said:

BTW, I have no clue why everyone is hating on Douple.

Lack of vision for starters.

[UNDColorado]

23 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

One could say that right now the process of trimming the fat is happening.  Take the 4 Dakotas and Denver (Summit) and join them with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and one more (UNC?) and it would be the perfect conference.

Then the debate will be where to hold the Summit League Tournament.  Sioux Falls will be seen as too favorable to SDSU and USD, but it would still get tremendous support.  Simple answer is to move it a little further west and make it more centrally located.  Rapid City would make a great host city and provide a lot of other entertainment options too.

Now that we have this all figured out for Douple, etc. it's up to them to make it happen.

Sorry Yote, this just makes too much sense so it probably won't happen.

[Yote 53]

9 hours ago, SanDakotaState said:

There is no way in hell that the tournament will be moved to Rapid City unless they build a new arena and they put together a better proposal than Sioux Falls. The Rushmore Plaza Civic Center is a terrible venue and is not up to par for a D1 conference tournament. The SLT makes tons of money and is one of the best conference tournaments in all of the NCAA. Why fix it if it isn't broken? The coaches might not like it but i bet the players love playing in front of a crowd instead of an empty gym like they are used to. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

 

BTW, I have no clue why everyone is hating on Douple. Just because he doesn't say anything in the media doesn't mean that isn't out looking for other members. In my opinion the the league has improved every year since he became commissioner in 2004. I don't care that schools are leaving (like IUPUI for example). He is bringing in new schools that the fit the region better like when he brought in Denver and UNO (they aren't leaving anytime soon- just a hunch).  Hopefully Fort Wayne leaves once Douple finds a school to replace them with. 

SDSU fans are very protective of their "precious", the SLT in Sioux Falls.  Fact is if we could ever manage to put together a conference with the Montanas, etc. the SLT in SF would be gone on an annual basis.  It would either become a rotating tournament or we would have to settle on one central destination, hence my suggestion of Rapid City.  The Rushmore Plaza can hold 10,000, it would serve just fine as a tournament home.

[the green team]

That was my great concern with this move when President Kennedy felt it was necessary to move to The Summit.   While the Big Sky may have had it's travel issues, especially for UND, it did have a bunch of schools that really have no plans to go anywhere and that creates a substantial known conference schedule year in and year out.   Apologize to Sioux Volley,  but I remain unconvinced that the Montana schools have any interest in going elsewhere.  They and their fans enjoy being the big bad bullies on the block and many years, and in many sports, they have been just that.   Having visited with some of their fans this year- they conveyed, they have little to no interest in central time zone games.  Now the Presidents who are the decision makers, how do they feel?  I couldn't begin to guess, but I have to believe it can't be all that dissimilar to their fans thoughts.  

And that brings us back to this move into the Summit.  While I look forward to renewing regular games with the teams we have so much history with,  how can it be anything but concerning when it seems apparent that so many are trying to get off the ship? As a basketball fan, if the Summit ends up as a 8 or 7 team conference,  how does a 14 or even more horrifying 12 game conference schedule sound.  Let's be honest, very few schools are knocking down our door to play a game at the Betty in non-conference to play us to begin with.   You can say that we can get the Montana's but I don't believe that will happen.  They can look west for non-conference games from  where they recruit from.   My belief is once we make the move to the Summit, we won't be seeing any of the former Big Sky schools at The Betty anytime soon with maybe the exception of Northern Colorado.  And depending how many teams are left in the Summit when we arrive.... expect to see our Fighting Hawks at home very little before January, because most of the non-conference opportunities will be for road games only, unless somebody plants a money tree outside The Betty where we can start paying teams to visit.  That bothers me as a season ticket holder, I would like to see our team a little bit before the conference season and have at least a couple of games in my season ticket packet be decent match ups before The Summit League conference season begins.   

[jacksfan29]

6 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

SDSU fans are very protective of their "precious", the SLT in Sioux Falls.  Fact is if we could ever manage to put together a conference with the Montanas, etc. the SLT in SF would be gone on an annual basis.  It would either become a rotating tournament or we would have to settle on one central destination, hence my suggestion of Rapid City.  The Rushmore Plaza can hold 10,000, it would serve just fine as a tournament home.

The Rushmore would need to be blown up and re-built. It is an absolutely terrible venue. That said, sure, could it host? Well, better then Reno, at least it would be filled with mostly SDSU fans. FYI, I see the Summit announced the SLT finished first in mid-major attendance and seventh overall behind only P5 and the Big East. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

Oh, the Montana's are not coming our way. A lot of you really need to get over that idea. It is not going to happen.

[jacksfan29]

4 hours ago, the green team said:

That was my great concern with this move when President Kennedy felt it was necessary to move to The Summit.   While the Big Sky may have had it's travel issues, especially for UND, it did have a bunch of schools that really have no plans to go anywhere and that creates a substantial known conference schedule year in and year out.   Apologize to Sioux Volley,  but I remain unconvinced that the Montana schools have any interest in going elsewhere.  They and their fans enjoy being the big bad bullies on the block and many years, and in many sports, they have been just that.   Having visited with some of their fans this year- they conveyed, they have little to no interest in central time zone games.  Now the Presidents who are the decision makers, how do they feel?  I couldn't begin to guess, but I have to believe it can't be all that dissimilar to their fans thoughts.  

And that brings us back to this move into the Summit.  While I look forward to renewing regular games with the teams we have so much history with,  how can it be anything but concerning when it seems apparent that so many are trying to get off the ship? As a basketball fan, if the Summit ends up as a 8 or 7 team conference,  how does a 14 or even more horrifying 12 game conference schedule sound.  Let's be honest, very few schools are knocking down our door to play a game at the Betty in non-conference to play us to begin with.   You can say that we can get the Montana's but I don't believe that will happen.  They can look west for non-conference games from  where they recruit from.   My belief is once we make the move to the Summit, we won't be seeing any of the former Big Sky schools at The Betty anytime soon with maybe the exception of Northern Colorado.  And depending how many teams are left in the Summit when we arrive.... expect to see our Fighting Hawks at home very little before January, because most of the non-conference opportunities will be for road games only, unless somebody plants a money tree outside The Betty where we can start paying teams to visit.  That bothers me as a season ticket holder, I would like to see our team a little bit before the conference season and have at least a couple of games in my season ticket packet be decent match ups before The Summit League conference season begins.   

Both SDSU and USD have done a lot of home and home series with BSC schools. Why would UND not do the same? Also, most mid-majors don't spend a lot of time at home in late November and through December, that is if you want to improve your RPI and actually make a tournament. If you aren't home in January there is a bigger issue since league play begins in January.

[the green team]

22 minutes ago, jacksfan29 said:

Both SDSU and USD have done a lot of home and home series with BSC schools. Why would UND not do the same? Also, most mid-majors don't spend a lot of time at home in late November and through December, that is if you want to improve your RPI and actually make a tournament. If you aren't home in January there is a bigger issue since league play begins in January.

If the league schedule is only 12 or 14 because of a 7 or 8 team league--- it might as well start in mid January for that matter. Yes, I'm concerned with trying to schedule non-conference games with BSC schools and any schools for that matter.  Heck the Jackrabbits have turned down coming here for not only last year but for several years now.  Even though from my understanding both staffs get along fairly well- Nagy/Jones & Otzelberger/Jones.  So if we can't even get the Jackrabbits to venture up I-29 for a home & home what makes you think we'll get a Weber State when they can schedule a bus ride to or from Logan, or Orem or Provo etc.?

[the green team]

38 minutes ago, jacksfan29 said:

Both SDSU and USD have done a lot of home and home series with BSC schools. Why would UND not do the same? Also, most mid-majors don't spend a lot of time at home in late November and through December, that is if you want to improve your RPI and actually make a tournament. If you aren't home in January there is a bigger issue since league play begins in January.

I don't think you're familiar with how difficult it has been for UND to schedule non-conference home games in MBB.  Even 1 or 2 decent ones.  I'm not saying we have to be Kansas where the only time they leave the Phog is to play in Maui and MSG.  But 1 or 2 decent non-conference home games would be appreciated by our fans and right now it's looking like The Summit is going to be significantly smaller by the time we arrive, which only stresses our ability to schedule non-conference in the future.   Perhaps The Summit won't hemorrhage as many teams as I think  and I will be pleasantly surprised.  But I don't get that feeling right now. 

[SiouxVolley]

2 hours ago, jacksfan29 said:

The Rushmore would need to be blown up and re-built. It is an absolutely terrible venue. That said, sure, could it host? Well, better then Reno, at least it would be filled with mostly SDSU fans. FYI, I see the Summit announced the SLT finished first in mid-major attendance and seventh overall behind only P5 and the Big East. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

Oh, the Montana's are not coming our way. A lot of you really need to get over that idea. It is not going to happen.

You've gone on record elsewhere that there will be no more moves out of the Summit.  We supposed to believe that IPFW is perfectly happy as an eastern island, Western Illinois doesn't have a budget problem and doesn't have complaints about Summit air travel, ORU simply loves the Summit and Sioux Falls, Omaha isn't seriously considered by anyone although they got an MVC official visit, and UND is so strung up for cash that we needed to move out of the Big Sky to cut down on air travel.  Sioux Falls just makes the Summit schools tinkle with joy, as witnessed by IUPUI making Dakota tournament jokes at their Horizon invitation party.  The Horizon and MVC wont go beyond 10 in spite of Presidents, AD's and Commissioners stating the opposite.  Your so convincing.

[SiouxVolley]

The athletic situation at Idaho State continues to deteriorate.  President Vailas has tendered his resignation, effective a year from now.

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/isu-football-former-bengal-qb-machurek-sounds-off-on-isu/article_40c229dc-0d72-5512-a26c-7af2638f7279.html

[zonadub]

On July 29, 2017 at 5:53 PM, bison73 said:

I dont know. But one has to think that the Summit is unstable to come up with a answer.  To me its not a concern.