GeauxSioux Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I believe they could be required to pay back any money spent illegally. I'm not sure on the specific mechanism. Regarding the "constitutional crisis." While the Board of Higher Education undoubtedly has administrative control they do have to follow state law the same as any other state agency. As to my own opinion I'm glad that the state legislature acted on respecting the wishes of the people of North Dakota as well as the wishes of the Spirit Lake tribe. I don't think there was a single issue that generated as much support this spring as that. Undoubtedly it was too little too late, but it was worth a try. I don't agree that the SBoHE is a state agency. They are essentially an independent branch of the government. And I still contend that the legislature overstepped their bounds. From the ND constitution.... The said state board of higher education shall have full authority over the institutions under its control with the right, among its other powers, to prescribe, limit, or modify the courses offered at the several institutions. In furtherance of its powers, the state board of higher education shall have the power to delegate to its employees details of the administration of the institutions under its control. The said state board of higher education shall have full authority to organize or reorganize within constitutional and statutory limitations, the work of each institution under its control, and do each and everything necessary and proper for the efficient and economic administration of said state educational institutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Whistler Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I don't agree that the SBoHE is a state agency. They are essentially an independent branch of the government. And I still contend that the legislature overstepped their bounds. From the ND constitution.... That doesn't mean that they don't have to follow state law. Suppose a University staff member gets caught stealing from one of the institution. Do they go to the state pen or to one that's run by the NDUS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 That doesn't mean that they don't have to follow state law. Suppose a University staff member gets caught stealing from one of the institution. Do they go to the state pen or to one that's run by the NDUS? If a judge (judicial branch of the government) violates the law does he get sent to the judge's timeout room or state pen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 That doesn't mean that they don't have to follow state law. Suppose a University staff member gets caught stealing from one of the institution. Do they go to the state pen or to one that's run by the NDUS? Who's not following state law in this instance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Whistler Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Who's not following state law in this instance? The University doesn't write their own law is the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Whistler Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I have a question for anyone who's worked for the NDUS and got hurt on the job. Doesn't the University system have to obey the law and belong to the North Dakota Workforce Safety & Insurance? That's because it's a state law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I do understand that the SBoHE has to follow state law. My point, whether I am right of wrong, is that the legislature stepped over constitutional lines in making their law requiring UND be the Fighting Sioux. Will they now pass a law saying that the presidents of the institutions now report to them? What other laws can they make taking power away from the SBoHE? Al saw an avenue to grab power and he took it. The AG should have shut it down, the governor shouldn't have signed it, but we are now in this mess and now Al is mad because he got a pie in his face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The University doesn't write their own law is the point. I never said that they did write their own laws. I was implying that they never broke anyone else's. They may be planning what they will do if the Legislator repeals the nickname law, but that is a far cry from breaking a law. So Al is upset because UND leaders, instructed by their bosses, are being prudent and planning their next steps? How dare those commie pointy-headed socialistic University leaders be so forward thinking? The audacity of it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Whistler Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I do understand that the SBoHE has to follow state law. My point, whether I am right of wrong, is that the legislature stepped over constitutional lines in making their law requiring UND be the Fighting Sioux. Will they now pass a law saying that the presidents of the institutions now report to them? What other laws can they make taking power away from the SBoHE? Al saw an avenue to grab power and he took it. The AG should have shut it down, the governor shouldn't have signed it, but we are now in this mess and now Al is mad because he got a pie in his face. They can't pass a law requiring a state agency report to them. After all the constitution says other agencies report to the Governor. If you look at the legislative history it makes a bit more sense. Wild Bill Langer wanted to interfere in the personnel process on NDSU. The people took the governor out of the equation except I suppose for his responsibilities in the legislative process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I do understand that the SBoHE has to follow state law. My point, whether I am right of wrong, is that the legislature stepped over constitutional lines in making their law requiring UND be the Fighting Sioux. Will they now pass a law saying that the presidents of the institutions now report to them? What other laws can they make taking power away from the SBoHE? Al saw an avenue to grab power and he took it. The AG should have shut it down, the governor shouldn't have signed it, but we are now in this mess and now Al is mad because he got a pie in his face. This has turned into a huge mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The thing is if you do send an e-mail don't expect any form of response, (Unless your extremely classy and threaten him in your e-mai. Than it will be front page news and your response will be from the highway patrol. ) I live in Carlson's district and sent him an e-mail before the original vote expressing my concerns as an alumni and former athlete. Didn't get a response via e-mail so I tried placing a phone call and low and behold my message was not returned. I urge people to write well thought out e-mails but don't expect any form of return correspondance unless you are holding a pen or a microphone and can get him some media attention. It really shows what his intentions are in my mind. You are correct - I should not have been quite so outspoken that we should "blast" Carlson. Only well-written, professional notes are appropriate. But I still think we should bombard him with our toned-down opinions. Part of my frustration is that he and I have traded four different e-mails (four each way) since the issue first arose in the legislature. In each of his responses, he certainly made it sound like his actions were solely for the benefit of the university. I am not surprised but he certainly is not looking out for UND's best interests if he actively works to keep the law on the books. Most of ND's politicians are not in the same class (a very low class) as the majority of politicians in the federal gov't and many other states but it is apparent that Carlson does fit that mold!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Boy Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 This has turned into a huge mess. Don't worry, Goon. All is well. Taz predicts a full and complete resolution to the issue by Dec. And when I say full and complete, I mean that everyone involved will be sufficiently, and equally, depressed. Spreading misery... It is the way of the Enlightened. taz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Don't worry, Goon. All is well. Taz predicts a full and complete resolution to the issue by Dec. And when I say full and complete, I mean that everyone involved will be sufficiently, and equally, depressed. Spreading misery... It is the way of the Enlightened. taz HA! that might be true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The Herald article has been updated to include quotes from Grant Shaft: http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/214094/group/homepage/ Shaft noted that Carlson “said at the time (of the Indianapolis meeting) that he never intended harm to the university and would not take any action that would harm UND," but “the timing of his letter addressed to me and President Kelley … makes me call into question whether his comments about not wanting to injure UND were hollow.” I'm kind of impressed with Shaft's candor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Pretty obvious this guy is an arrogant ,self serving politician, doing everything he can to keep his name in the media. If I were on his staff, or were I the state GOP chairman, I would remind him that this is the type of foolishness that loses elections. This hurts UND and our image and undermines the authority of the UND president to do his job. As noted by other posters, Kelly's response was perfect. and showed respect for the legislative process as well as the NCAA ultimatum. Other legislators and the Governor have indicated they will repeal this misguided and flawed legislation. What Carlson thinks he can gain by his recent comments is beyond my simple mind. I believe it does reveal his contempt for higher education in N. Dak. He should not be re-elected, nor should he ever be elected to higher office. He seems to forget the problems they let occur at NDSU occured on "his watch" as a legislative leader and he did nothing. I believe what he is doing now is an intentional effort to hurt UND, Kelly and UND atheltics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Whistler Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The Herald article has been updated to include quotes from Grant Shaft: http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/214094/group/homepage/ I'm kind of impressed with Shaft's candor. Grant Shaft who was in charge of the committee to keep the name who had one organizational committee meeting. As soon as the petition effort on the Spirit Lake reservation took off he disbanded his committee and made a motion to terminate the Sioux name with a year and a half left in our settlement period. His stated purpose was that the Summit league was considering bringing us in, but that wasn't a good fit for us and we didn't even wind up completing the application process. So please, don't mention "Shaft" and "candor" in the same sentence. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 “If we pass a texting bill, would you just ignore the texting bill and say we didn’t really mean it? What does that tell the public? Good grief, he really is an idiot. Laws that ban texting usually have a penalty provision, such a ticket, fine, etc. built in to show people that the legislature did "mean it". People ignore speed limits, and some end getting tagged for it, as provided in the law. Carlson's failure to include a penalty provision or some other enforcement component is his own damn fault. Beyond its place in the North Dakota Century Code, his legislation has that same force as one that recognizes a state flower or designates an "official" septic tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I'm not a fan of Carlson and believe that he is indeed on a power trip and doesn't mind harming UND while he is out proving his point. I will say though I hate how the NCAA has held a gun to our head, it makes me sick to my stomach to think of us as anything but the Fighting Sioux, but I know if we don't retire it we will be lepers in the world of college sports. Is it me or does the retirement of the name feel a lot like hearing news that a loved one only has months to live? Life will go on but it will never be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodcon Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I think anything Carlson says to the NDUS, his fellow constituents, or anybody else for that matter is now a moot point...almost everybody on both sides of the fence have realized that for the good of the University of North Dakota the law will have to be repealed. And looking at the way the legislators of North Dakota run their state compared to many of the other states in this region (including mine), I have no doubt they will make the right choice, in fact I'm sure they already have. I will give Carlson the benefit of the doubt and assume he proceeded with good intentions when pushing for enactment of the law, but as they say "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" and clearly he pushed this through without properly researching if enacting it would have any effect on the sanctioning by the NCAA and without regard for what it would mean to the University down the road if it had to live under that sanction cloud indefinitely, and for that I would have to label his actions irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Maybe he knows something yet to come ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Maybe he knows something yet to come ? I hope you're right. And I hope it is positive for UND. But if his past track record is any indication, he better invest in a new crystal ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Why are all you guys freaking out? The majority of the people in ND wanted to keep the Sioux nickname by passing a state law. The majority of state legislators as well as the governor agreed and followed the will of the people and did exactly that. Carlson happens to be the leader of the majority in the legislator. He also sent a letter saying that NDUS and UND should comply with state law. What has he done wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Why are all you guys freaking out? The majority of the people in ND wanted to keep the Sioux nickname by passing a state law. The majority of state legislators as well as the governor agreed and followed the will of the people and did exactly that. Carlson happens to be the leader of the majority in the legislator. He also sent a letter saying that NDUS and UND should comply with state law. What has he done wrong? Accused UND of doing something wrong. You asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Accused UND of doing something wrong. You asked. UND has done something wrong. They are planning on retiring the nickname. They have announced their intention to have the name gone by the new year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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