darell1976 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So if I'm reading this correctly, we will be on the H & A list from tomorrow until sometime in December after the special session repeals the nickname law (probably). So by December there has to be a new nickname ready to go, does that mean they are going to start working on it now or wait until after the special session in November? The thought of coming up with a new nickname in the 11th hour of this deal scares the hell out of me. No big deal....our membership in the Big Sky is solid since we ARE retiring the name, and second we aren't able to go to the playoffs (hockey isn't until March) so that doesn't apply to us either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 No big deal....our membership in the Big Sky is solid since we ARE retiring the name, and second we aren't able to go to the playoffs (hockey isn't until March) so that doesn't apply to us either. Hockey would not be affected by the sanctions with exception to wearing the logo during tournament play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 How can folk blame Kelley or Faison. The power was taken up to the ND SBoHE and then the top levels of state government. (The AG negotiated the settlement; the Legislature tried to step in; the Governor went to the NCAA.) The settlement was signed October 25, 2007. Brian Faison became UND AD on April 17, 2008. Robert Kelley became UND's 11th president on July 1, 2008. The settlement was in place before either Kelley or Faison were in their current jobs. The only way blaming them makes sense if is you think either Kelley or Faison could force Standing Rock to vote, and if you believe that you're delerious. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hockey would not be affected by the sanctions with exception to wearing the logo during tournament play. That's true for MENS hockey. Womens hockey could be affected by the loss of a home NCAA tournament series (assuming they earn such right). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 That's true for MENS hockey. Womens hockey could be affected by the loss of a home NCAA tournament series (assuming they earn such right). Not when we are off the list in December at the latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 How can folk blame Kelley or Faison. The power was taken up to the ND SBoHE and then the top levels of state government. (The AG negotiated the settlement; the Legislature tried to step in; the Governor went to the NCAA.) The settlement was signed October 25, 2007. Brian Faison became UND AD on April 17, 2008. Robert Kelley became UND's 11th president on July 1, 2008. The settlement was in place before either Kelley or Faison were in their current jobs. The only way blaming them makes sense if is you think either Kelley or Faison could force Standing Rock to vote, and if you believe that you're delerious. Next to Myles Brand...I blame this guy!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 That's true for MENS hockey. Womens hockey could be affected by the loss of a home NCAA tournament series (assuming they earn such right). Wow your right, the school could have lost almost $20 in revenue from that event, sure glad we dodged that bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Next to Myles Brand...I blame this guy!!!! Precisely. Stenjhem et al. negotiated the settlement agreement. Kelley wasn't part of that process. He was handed this mess and has done an okay job of trying to handle it. The name/logo were effectively killed off in 2007, and it's time to bury them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 cheap shot (noun): an unfair verbal attack on a vulnerable target. You want to reconsider your choice of words? Personally, I agree with what Goon said earlier in this thread. I have no problem with what Goon says. He didn't refer to Kelly "soiling himself". I think the events recently have shown that Kelly and others (including those at the SBoHE ) who supported the name realized that the NCAA agreement was a done deal and there was nothing that Kelly would accomplish by chasing windmills or waving his sword. Comments that Kelly would "soil himself" is a cheap shot. One might infer from that comment that someone is calling him a coward. He also has no oportunity to defend himself. I believe it fits your definition. Criticize the guy if you wish but if you wish to call him names or make those comments tell him in person. I have seen no evidence that any of this would cause him to "soil himself" nor has he shown cowardice. He works for the SBoHE and they gave him his "marching orders". I don't think he is dumb enough to defy those instructions to placate people on a blog. He has a much more important job to do. The time for the president to act was during the Starcher, Clifford, Baker and Kupchella years. The NCAA didn't waste much time with the Governor, Attorney General, Kelly Faison, Carlson and whomever else went along for the ride. You really think Kelly could have done more by himself? If you do OK and we might just disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hockey would not be affected by the sanctions with exception to wearing the logo during tournament play. That and the problem with scheduling. Have you noticed the list of schools who won't play us gets longer, not shorter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartTime Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Next to Myles Brand...I blame this guy!!!! Ding ding ding ding ding!! we have a winner here!! I don't know why the AG would agree to UND having to get permission from two tribes instead of one. That, to me, considering Standing Rocks stance, was the clincher. BUT!! It didn't have to come down to this, if Spirit Lake would have spoken up from the get go when everyone was asking them instead of sitting on the fence saying nothing, it wouldn't have even come to this. Many of you will disagree with me I'm sure but I blame Spirit Lake first. The NCAA was waiting for a responce and they said nothing. I refuse to feel sorry for Spirit Lake, their approval didn't come until after the settlement agreement. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Ding ding ding ding ding!! we have a winner here!! I don't know why the AG would agree to UND having to get permission from two tribes instead of one. That, to me, considering Standing Rocks stance, was the clincher. BUT!! It didn't have to come down to this, if Spirit Lake would have spoken up from the get go when everyone was asking them instead of sitting on the fence saying nothing, it wouldn't have even come to this. Many of you will disagree with me I'm sure but I blame Spirit Lake first. The NCAA was waiting for a responce and they said nothing. I refuse to feel sorry for Spirit Lake, their approval didn't come until after the settlement agreement. Just my opinion. Um, keep in mind that we went into this agreement THINKING we Standing Rock in our back pocket after His Horse Is Thunder was voted out by his constituancy and was replaced by Charles Murphy, who appeared to be a pro namer. And all the while Murphy never ever came out and said the tribe would vote on the issue. You wanna blame someone first, start with the deal makers on our side who worked this deal based on assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray77 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Um, keep in mind that we went into this agreement THINKING we Standing Rock in our back pocket after His Horse Is Thunder was voted out by his constituancy and was replaced by Charles Murphy, who appeared to be a pro namer. And all the while Murphy never ever came out and said the tribe would vote on the issue. You wanna blame someone first, start with the deal makers on our side who worked this deal based on assumptions. I'd like to see the timeline here. For some reason I'm under the impression that the settlement was in place before Charles Murphy was voted in - am I wrong in thinking this? If I'm correct, then the settlement was agreed to when RHHIT was the dictator, therefore we did not have Standing Rock/Charles Murphy to go to bat for us. I apologize if I have the timeline incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartTime Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Um, keep in mind that we went into this agreement THINKING we Standing Rock in our back pocket after His Horse Is Thunder was voted out by his constituancy and was replaced by Charles Murphy, who appeared to be a pro namer. And all the while Murphy never ever came out and said the tribe would vote on the issue. You wanna blame someone first, start with the deal makers on our side who worked this deal based on assumptions. What you say is true, but once again, waiting on Spirit Lake for their responce was pre-settlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux2007 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So can someone clarify something for me.....I was under the impression that we are the "Fighting Sioux" this coming 2011-2012 year. The merchendising license was extended for another year (I thought). I understand that most of the transition work to retire the name will be done by end of the year, but won't we finish this school year (2011-2012) as the Fighting Sioux? Is there a new timeline regarding the retirement of Sioux logo? I know some of this information is yet to be released, but anyone on here with some inside information.......I just want one more year as the Fighitng Sioux!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'd like to see the timeline here. For some reason I'm under the impression that the settlement was in place before Charles Murphy was voted in - am I wrong in thinking this? If I'm correct, then the settlement was agreed to when RHHIT was the dictator, therefore we did not have Standing Rock/Charles Murphy to go to bat for us. I apologize if I have the timeline incorrect. No, you're correct. I had my timeline wrong. Murphy was elected in '09. Sorry, my bad. But I still think that played a part due to the rumblings that came from Standing Rock reguarding His Horse Is Thunder and him not allowing his people to vote on the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the green team Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I may wrong on this. But, as I understood, last season was originally supposed to be the last year with the name. Then the ND Legislature stepped in and passed the law which required it's use, that superceded the end of the nickname here in early August. Now, I believe that the nickname is to be used because of the law until it is phased out again by the end of the year. Again, they are resuming the retirement- which had we not had the law passed would have been officially retired this month. Not sure if this is right, but that's the way I follow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7>5 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 During the transition I do not think that current students should even have a vote in the new nickname. It should b e a group of alumni, current students will come up with some that is very PC and wimpy!!!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 In my day we didn't have treats and candy like the spoiled kids today. We sucked on a handful of pennies, and it was delightful. Current UND students can't be trusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Here are a couple of stories of interest. The Next Little Big Horn: Black Cloud Says NCAA’s Actions Discriminatory Against Spirit Lake Sioux. Well ahead of the August 12 meeting, the Spirit Lake Chairman and Tribal Council wrote a letter to the NCAA asking if they could come to the meeting and represent their tribe’s position on the issue, but NCAA officials denied the sovereign nation’s request. “Here they are going to talk about the fate of the Fighting Sioux, and the name and the proper use that UND has given it, and the tribe that supports it, they don’t even want to hear from,” said Frank Black Cloud, a Spirit Lake Leader, on the Scott Hennen show yesterday. “How do you not want to hear from the people that it affects the most?” “The name was given generations ago,” stated Black Cloud, “and the NCAA really has no bearing as to what the tribe does and how the tribe gives their namesake away. We gave it in honor.” Carlson Says “The Battle Is Not Over Yet” on Fighting Sioux Nickname. FARGO, ND – “Those people [ND Legislators] don’t throw protest votes around. They were listening to the citizens of North Dakota when they cast their votes, and every one of them was well aware of what would happen in terms of conference affiliations and all of those things,” House Majority Leader Al Carlson (R-Fargo) said today of the legislature’s spring decision on the Fighting Sioux nickname bill. Carlson went on to say that there is also no certainty that the law will be repealed in November. “At no point in time was there a promise made that we will change the law tomorrow, in spite of what was said in the media. I can’t guarantee that those 93 people will all switch their minds,” Carlson said in an interview on the Scott Hennen show today. “I think the name should have stayed,” said Carlson. “In the end if it can’t stay, then so be it. But that day is not here yet.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsdSIOUXfalls Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Thanks for posting that, Goon. Frank Black Cloud makes so many good points beyond what you quoted, & I can hardly wait to see what they're planning for the NCAA! To hear Black Cloud's "must listen" interview..... http://scotthennen.com/podcast/?p=episode&name=2011-08-15_blackcloud81511.mp3 (Or, http://www.scotthennen.com/podcast/ select podcast archive, show all episodes, then scroll down to the 8/15/2011 brief interview with Frank Black Cloud.) Edited August 17, 2011 by wsdSIOUXfalls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 So Al says "that day is not here yet" in regards to retiring the name. So when is that day here??? Once we are kicked out of the Big Sky and the list of schools that won't play us reaches triple digits? He says he doesn't want to harm UND...he's having a tough time making me believe that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) So Al says "that day is not here yet" in regards to retiring the name. So when is that day here??? Once we are kicked out of the Big Sky and the list of schools that won't play us reaches triple digits? He says he doesn't want to harm UND...he's having a tough time making me believe that... I was wondering about that, look I am not happy about losing the Fighting Sioux nickname but it's appears that it's time to move on, we can't win this... Even if Spirit Lake sues the NCAA I can't see this changing, they aren't going to back off their stance... What's to stop the Big Sky Conference from pulling the conference affliation? All of the lawyers on site said that there is no way UND can win this. I wonder if the NDSBoHE will just go ahead and retire the name. Edited August 17, 2011 by Goon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 So Al says "that day is not here yet" in regards to retiring the name. So when is that day here??? Once we are kicked out of the Big Sky and the list of schools that won't play us reaches triple digits? He says he doesn't want to harm UND...he's having a tough time making me believe that... As much as people hate on Al Carlson, he has a much better political understanding of the Big Sky situation than the media or most of the people on this board accept. Straight and simple, the Big Sky situation is certainly a bluff. That's one thing that Kelley and Carlson would both agree on if either was honest. If the media ever got a story from the Weber State or Southern Utah Presidents and their views on the issue, those type interviews might turn this state upside down. Dalrymple has too many "friends" that he needs to protect to really tell us the truth about the whole fiasco. If the anticipated Spirit Lake lawsuit results in restraining orders against both the SBoHE and the NCAA, the Big Sky issue is moot for another year and thereafter die for the lie it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 As much as people hate on Al Carlson, he has a much better political understanding of the Big Sky situation than the media or most of the people on this board accept. Straight and simple, the Big Sky situation is certainly a bluff. That's one thing that Kelley and Carlson would both agree on if either was honest. If the media ever got a story from the Weber State or Southern Utah Presidents and their views on the issue, those type interview might turn this state upside down. Dalrymple has too many "friends" that he needs to protect to really tell us the truth about the whole fiasco. If the anticipated Spirit Lake lawsuit results in restraining orders against both the SBoHE and the NCAA, the Big Sky issue is moot for another year. Intriguing, would you elaborate on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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