POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[Gothmog]

Not saying it's not important to the state, or any state, for that matter, just saying that it's federalwho hney that UND is absol. ely positively beyond a shadow of a doubt NOT eligible at all to receive by virtue of NDSU's designation as the state's sole recipient of those funds. We can't compete for them because the way the federal funding model is set up, we're not even allowed on to the field.

NDSU can start up its own Aerospace School if it wanted to and lure federal research dollars that way, the way that John Odegard did 40 years ago with his seed of a dream at UND. There are countless other examples of things that are not duplicative to UND that NDSU could dream up and make happen and that are not prohibited by federal law to do so.

UND VPs of Research dating back to Peter Alfonso have been standing on their desks shouting this message to the world but has so far fallen on deaf unsympathetic ears.

Now I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's great that NDSU gets what it gets from federal ag sources for the Experiment Stations. It just should also be mentioned that these are dollars that UND are not eligible at all to receive.

You seem to be suggesting that an institution with a $65 million total research budget could add $50 million if only it were allowed to apply for grants in areas in which it has no experience

[Teeder11]

Can you say anything more about this? Heard there is a UND alum that has accumulated 300,000 acres of mineral rights starting 50 years ago in the Bakken, which is probably worth $3 or 4 billion now. Harold Hamm has made trips to UND and has been very supportive of developing a petroleum engineering school, and he has a net worth something like $10 billion. Even a 1% donation from either, both of whom are elderly and philanthropic, would be very large.

I'll have to leave it at that. Sorry.

[Dagger]

Can we just move on from this conversation. It is getting very repetitive. The same old Bison fans and their rhetoric is getting very old. You would think they would want to be on BV talking about their game with the powerful Prairie View. Go UND.

[Teeder11]

You seem to be suggesting that an institution with a $65 million total research budget could add $50 million if only it were allowed to apply for grants in areas in which it has no experience

No, I am suggesting that had UND been eligible for those dollars from the beginning in 1887* , UND, like NDSU, would have had more than 125 years to gain experience in said research. But since UND was not the designated "land grant college of agriculture," as deemed by not the state of North Dakota but rather the federal Hatch Act, UND was precluded from even making an effort to gain experience in such research.

The state authorized a Medical School at UND, but all of the research units of the UND medical school are programs that could be started, with a little innovation and imagination, at NDSU, if the STATE of North Dakota approved it and there was demand for it. I mean, I could see a number of new research endeavors taking place at NDSU through partnerships with Sanford. It's not out of the realm of possibility.

Thing is NDSU was never precluded from starting an aerospace school or a pharmacy school or whatever. But UND was never given even the remotest possibility of a chance to be a federal repository for those noncompetitive "ag research" funds. And that's the key, because of the Hatch Act, it's noncompetitive funds that an institution gets just for being designated an ag school 125 years ago.

A comparison of competitively garnered research funds between the two might be a cool thing to see.

*The Hatch Act of 1887 authorized the establishment of an agricultural experiment station, to be affiliated with the land grant college of agriculture, in each state (7 U.S.C. 361a et seq.). Research done at these stations underpins the curriculum of the colleges, as well as the programs of the Cooperative Extension System.^[1]

[Bison06]

Can we just move on from this conversation. It is getting very repetitive. The same old Sioux fans and their rhetoric is getting very old. You would think they would want to be on the gameday thread talking about their game with the powerful Sac St. Go NDSU.

[Hayduke]

No, I am suggesting that had UND been eligible for those dollars from the beginning in 1887* , UND, like NDSU, would have had more than 125 years to gain experience in said research. But since UND was not the designated "land grant college of agriculture," as deemed by not the state of North Dakota but rather the federal Hatch Act, UND was precluded from even making an effort to gain experience in such research.

The state authorized a Medical School at UND, but all of the research units of the UND medical school are programs that could be started, with a little innovation and imagination, at NDSU, if the STATE of North Dakota approved it and there was demand for it. I mean, I could see a number of new research endeavors taking place at NDSU through partnerships with Sanford. It's not out of the realm of possibility.

Thing is NDSU was never precluded from starting an aerospace school or a pharmacy school or whatever. But UND was never given even the remotest possibility of a chance to be a federal repository for those noncompetitive "ag research" funds. And that's the key, because of the Hatch Act, it's noncompetitive funds that an institution gets just for being designated an ag school 125 years ago.

A comparison of competitively garnered research funds between the two might be a cool thing to see.

*The Hatch Act of 1887 authorized the establishment of an agricultural experiment station, to be affiliated with the land grant college of agriculture, in each state (7 U.S.C. 361a et seq.). Research done at these stations underpins the curriculum of the colleges, as well as the programs of the Cooperative Extension System.^[1]

Very good post.

NDSU was founded for very important purposes in both education and research. Something to be very proud of indeed. But, the research part of that school was part of its foundation, as deemed by the federal government through Hatch Act II. They have done exceeding well and have served the state of North Dakota very admirably.

Of course, UND has done well also. But, as the flagship university, their mission was in a different area of academia. Both schools have served their state admirably.

Now, play the dam* game!

[Gothmog]

No, I am suggesting that had UND been eligible for those dollars from the beginning in 1887* , UND, like NDSU, would have had more than 125 years to gain experience in said research. But since UND was not the designated "land grant college of agriculture," as deemed by not the state of North Dakota but rather the federal Hatch Act, UND was precluded from even making an effort to gain experience in such research.

The state authorized a Medical School at UND, but all of the research units of the UND medical school are programs that could be started, with a little innovation and imagination, at NDSU, if the STATE of North Dakota approved it and there was demand for it. I mean, I could see a number of new research endeavors taking place at NDSU through partnerships with Sanford. It's not out of the realm of possibility.

Thing is NDSU was never precluded from starting an aerospace school or a pharmacy school or whatever. But UND was never given even the remotest possibility of a chance to be a federal repository for those noncompetitive "ag research" funds. And that's the key, because of the Hatch Act, it's noncompetitive funds that an institution gets just for being designated an ag school 125 years ago.

A comparison of competitively garnered research funds between the two might be a cool thing to see.

*The Hatch Act of 1887 authorized the establishment of an agricultural experiment station, to be affiliated with the land grant college of agriculture, in each state (7 U.S.C. 361a et seq.). Research done at these stations underpins the curriculum of the colleges, as well as the programs of the Cooperative Extension System.^[1]

Unless you're Bill Keifer, I really don't get your point. NDSU was designated as ND's 1862 Land Grant institution by the State not the Federal government. There's no reason that UND could not have been so designated...it just wasn't the will of the people of the state. Just as the state could have established a medical school at NDSU, if it so desired. It's completely unrealistic to suggest that NDSU could have started its own medical school without state approval. Which, of course, UND would never have permitted.

In any case, Hatch Act funding is allocated out of a federal pool by a formula based on a number of factors including the size of the state. Under that formula, NDSU was allocated ~ $3 million in FY 2012. Of course, the government mandates that the state match that amount at least 100%. But clearly, Hatch Act funding does not explain the research funding difference between NDSU and UND.

http://www.csrees.us...y12_reg_fin.pdf

http://www.csrees.us...tistate_fin.pdf

[Jheria]

Believe every UND fan when we say what I am about to say -- loud and clear: South Dakota School of Mines was not scheduled to help our playoff chances. In fact, it will do far, far, far, far (did I say "far") more to hurt our chances of sniffing the playoffs regardless of how bad we beat them.

UND fans are beside themselves with disgust that our AD persisted with this meaningless schedule filler of a game. We have never been explained the reason for this game and we are certainly not stumbling over each other to defend it as the school's ingenious master "marketing strategy" like we are seeing a lot of down south with the scheduling of some of the softer teams on the SU schedule (at $200,000 or so a head).

Bottom line: We hated the scheduling of SD Mines... we wanted a definite playoff counter team in there, and whether it was a product of the transition years when scheduling was an utter challenge or because of something else we are not privy to, I cannot be more emphatic that we are not embracing it as a good thing.

IT WILL ONLY HURT OUR PLAYOFF CHANCES!!!!

Whether you embrace it or not the administration scheduled it because they thought it was in the best interest of the program. It sure seems this administration has a similar strategy of playing some cup cakes. Almost every school does it.

[butterz77]

why would UND play against criminals?

[nd1sufan]

why would UND play against criminals?

Its ok, your hockey team has to have an intra-squad scrimmage once in a while.

[The Sicatoka]

Uh-uh-uuuhhh ... {wagging finger back and forth} ...

No bringing up hockey or else we get to ask why NDSU just complains about hockey and never gets in the game.

[Teeder11]

Sic,

Check out WDAY sports in a few minutes... they might have highlights of "The Catch II" by Jameer!

[82SiouxGuy]

Its ok, your hockey team has to have an intra-squad scrimmage once in a while.

Don't you have enough football players that have been charged with crimes in the past few months to field a starting 11 plus have a few subs?

[The Sicatoka]

Check out WDAY sports in a few minutes... they might have highlights of "The Catch II" by Jameer!

I just saw it on the WDAY/WDAZ sports.

I think that was intended for the pylon and Jackson intercepted it.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

I just saw it on the WDAY/WDAZ sports.

I think that was intended for the pylon and Jackson intercepted it.

It was a beauty thats for sure.

[BigOly]

Hate to sound like a know it all, but I stated last week I believed that the oil industry would be bringing some money to UND. Not that I had any inside info or anything but apparently some 15 million was donated today. Maybe someone knows the particulars.

[82SiouxGuy]

Hate to sound like a know it all, but I stated last week I believed that the oil industry would be bringing some money to UND. Not that I had any inside info or anything but apparently some 15 million was donated today. Maybe someone knows the particulars.

It is on the Community Forum. $10 million in donations and $4 million from the state of North Dakota oil and gas research fund.

[zonadub]

Lets bump this thread so the Montana State rivalry thread can get back on track.

Darrell, The "problem" with NDSU's OOC scheduling, if there is one, is that it is working. Call them cupcakes if you want, the AC plays weak BCS schools and win, they play weaker FCS schools and win, so they pad their resume, and more importantly boost the players' egos (if they need any more help after winning a D-I national championship). Bohl does a good job of not letting his team look beyond weaker opponents and lose games they should win. Then they go and win more conference games. Faison and Mussman should be paying attention.

I would say that hate them if you want, but Taylor and Bohl have a system that works. If you were in their shoes, would you be willing to roll the dice and possibly lose to a regional rival (maybe not a conference rival anymore but definitely a recruiting rival) and risk losing? I still say the only way this rivalry will resume (at least as long as Taylor is at NDSU) is in the playoffs. And then, unfortunately, since the Fargodome is bigger than the Alerus, it will be in Fargo every time until UND is the top ranked FCS team and NDSU has to travel in a late round semifinal.

[dmksioux]

So to summerize what you said, NDSU won't play us because they are afraid of losing.

[WYOBISONMAN]

So to summerize what you said, NDSU won't play us because they are afraid of losing.

Looking at the programs........probably not much of an issue.....

[Hayduke]

So to summerize what you said, NDSU won't play us because they are afraid of losing.

You know, there might be something to that.

Not that UND would dominate. (Like, oh, let's say...62-45-3...) But, a loss would burst the illusion that NDSU has created about their program versus UND's. Re: 62-45-3

[WYOBISONMAN]

You know, there might be something to that.

Not that UND would dominate. (Like, oh, let's say...62-45-3...) But, a loss would burst the illusion that NDSU has created about their program versus UND's. Re: 64-45-3

Right on buddy..........just like the illusion that we pounded the hell out of Youngstown last weekend. LOL....this is some funny stuff! Now, I am sure Muss could find somewhat of a moral victory in a game agaist the Herd. LOL!!!!!

[Hayduke]

Right on buddy..........just like the illusion that we pounded the hell out of Youngstown last weekend. LOL....this is some funny stuff! Now, I am sure Muss could find somewhat of a moral victory in a game agaist the Herd. LOL!!!!!

Just sayin'. Unless NDSU wishes it to remain 62-45-3, they better sign a deal...

Get that chat goin' down in Fargo! "Mean Machine! Mean Machine! Mean Machine!"

[darell1976]

Right on buddy..........just like the illusion that we pounded the hell out of Youngstown last weekend. LOL....this is some funny stuff! Now, I am sure Muss could find somewhat of a moral victory in a game agaist the Herd. LOL!!!!!

I am going to say it...pounding Youngstown doesn't mean you will 100% pound UND. Could it happen...maybe. I guess we will never know. I think that is what puzzles UND fans more than NDSU fans. NDSU acts like they can take anyone anywhere they are the king of the state where UND lost to Sioux Falls two years ago. So why not schedule the game? Answer...they might be afraid of the consequences surounding a potential loss. If UND upsets NDSU like in 1993 (the year the 12 year streak was broke), think of what the media, the message boards, the talk of the town would be. It could hurt recruiting. This would be the ultimate trap game for NDSU. GT wants no part of that.

[Hayduke]

I am going to say it...pounding Youngstown doesn't mean you will 100% pound UND. Could it happen...maybe. I guess we will never know. I think that is what puzzles UND fans more than NDSU fans. NDSU acts like they can take anyone anywhere they are the king of the state where UND lost to Sioux Falls two years ago. So why not schedule the game? Answer...they might be afraid of the consequences surounding a potential loss. If UND upsets NDSU like in 1993 (the year the 12 year streak was broke), think of what the media, the message boards, the talk of the town would be. It could hurt recruiting. This would be the ultimate trap game for NDSU. GT wants no part of that.

Exactly.

Why chance losing the mystique? More than likely, NDSU would prevail for a few years. But, once they lost (and they would, history has proven so...35-30 in Nickel Games alone) they would lose the recruiting edge. Although, the guys they have been recruiting may be good on the football field at the FCS level, but off the field..a nightmare.