POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[UNDColorado]

There has been alot of talk about rival games disapearing. My question is were are they now? We have Basketball starting up; however, the sioux are not playing minn in the near future south dakota is swiching to a totally different confrence and NDSU/UND football is no where in site. I say Play rival games as the sioux and start back the transition. Any more bumps will only make it harder.Do not say Montana can be our new rival befcause it will not happon. It will take years to get it to the same level as UND/ NDSU, UND/ MINN., AND UND/SOUTH DAKOTA.

I would be willing to bet that the intensity of these M and M State games will pick up rather quickly.

[82SiouxGuy]

at an extra $20 a game, that would be $300,000, roughly the cost of a forgone game. NDSU might break even monetarily. On the other hand, every other year UND quadruples it's revenue from a game. Why would they agree to this give up a homegame ever other year for a wash financially that helps out a rival recruiting program?

I would rather see both teams arrange home-homes with more national programs than each other, especially since starting in two years, or maybe even next year, they will be meeting in the playoffs most years anyway?

The reason to play is that it would be great publicity and a great marketing opportunity for both schools. More people in the entire region would pay attention to that game than just about any game either school could play. If they really do play each other in the playoffs on a regular basis that would be one thing. But there is no guarantee that it would happen. For instance, how often have Montana and Montana State played in the playoffs? (I really have no idea and don't have time to look it up right now.)

The other problem is that both schools have already had trouble getting other schools to come to North Dakota for games. Teams east of North Dakota have a lot of options without traveling so far, and most of the FCS teams west of North Dakota are in the Big Sky. Teams don't want to go to Fargo to play a very good team, and hopefully, soon teams will have similar respect for UND. Both schools will have to overpay to try and attract schools to make the trip.

[Ole in MSP]

Everyone on here, especially the NDSU faithful assume that they will be 11-1 or 10-2 every year henceforth. Well, reality says that there will be some down years at 6-5 or maybe worse for either or both schools at some point. When that happens the game betweent the two could be THE big game of the year. It is one thing to spew all this rhetoric when you just won a NC, but let's see how it all plays out when both schools have a mediocre year or years. The Bison have been on a roll, but they have come back to earth before and it can and likely will happen again at some point. Same with UND. The future is really going to be interesting.

[bincitysioux]

.....................................starting in two years, or maybe even next year, they will be meeting in the playoffs most years anyway?

Alot of chips would have to fall the right way for that to happen.

How many times have Montana and Montana St. met in the playoffs over the last decade?

It befuddles me the way that NDSU and their fans do not understand the "dynamic" ticket pricing model. UND, along with a plethora of regional schools have taken advantage of it for years................................

[Johnny Five]

I think my tickets are $18 per seat in the north end zone....5 tickets. If they jacked the price to $25 for a couple games I personally wouldn't bat an eye. UND, SDSU, USD, Montana, montana state and UNI are schools I'd be fine with depending on future schedules.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

I think dome tickets go for around $20. bump it up to 25 for UND, and you make an extra 100,000. Then the next year you give up 400,000 in ticket sales to go to grand forks. Plus UND would't even be the biggest game of the year, that would normally be UNI or SDSU. should those games be premium as well?

Any home-home situation is basically a six figure handout from NDSU football to UND football. It's pretty clear why they aren't in favor of it. Both teams would probably make more money if NDSU just paid UND 250k to come to the fargodome every year.

You can't honestly believe a game against UNI or SDSU would be a bigger deal to the fans than a game against UND. I know it's been a long time but have you forgotten what those games were like in the D2 days? It was an event for the entire state. I've been to UND/USD games and NDSU/SDSU games and the atmosphere is nowhere near what it was for the Sioux/Bison games. Has an NDSU student ever tried to steal the Dakota Marker? No, but those were the kinds of stories you'd hear about the Nickel. My best friend and his family are the biggest bunch of Sioux-hating Bison fans I've ever met and at every holiday they end up plotting to steal back the Nickel because they can't stand that we have it and they don't. They don't give a damn about UNI except that they know they have to beat them to win the conference. If NDSU and UNI decided not to play each other anymore I can guarantee there wouldn't be a 35 page thread on a message board about it 8 years later.

This rivalry is obviously about more than football if it's still just as heated after an 8 year layoff. It's about talking smack to my little brother because he went to NDSU. It's about my best friend's friend's family truly believing they're better than me I'm a UND grad, and me feeling exactly the same way about them. It's about the UND alums at Oxbow Country Club paying more than the NDSU alums to have a Sioux flag flying instead of a Bison flag.

You can talk about financial benefit, and scheduling problems, and wanting to see teams like James Madison and Georgia Southern all you want but there will never be a football game played in either the Fargodome or the Alerus that will ever exceed the atmosphere of a Sioux/Bison game. When this rivalry resumes, I'll pay $100 just to get in the door of the Fargodome if that's what it takes.

[Jheria]

It's business. Supply and demand. If there is a good chance to make some extra money you should at least consider it. But in most cases you will probably have a couple of games per year that would logically fit.

UND FB doesn't have demand so therfore it's gouging the people that regularly show up.

[zonadub]

I think dome tickets go for around $20. bump it up to 25 for UND, and you make an extra 100,000. Then the next year you give up 400,000 in ticket sales to go to grand forks. Plus UND would't even be the biggest game of the year, that would normally be UNI or SDSU. should those games be premium as well?

Any home-home situation is basically a six figure handout from NDSU football to UND football. It's pretty clear why they aren't in favor of it. Both teams would probably make more money if NDSU just paid UND 250k to come to the fargodome every year.

I think what you are forgetting is that for every casual one-game-at-a-time Bison fan that couldn't afford the extra $$, there would be a Sioux fan lining up to pay that extra cash to the NDSU athletic dept. Wouldn't that be satisfying to the Bison faithful? Gouging the Sioux fans for an extra $10 or $20 a seat? How many out of town fans come to Fargo to watch the Robert Morris's and Wagner's? You certainly cannot infer that the UND-NDSU game could not sell out at a higher price. It must be that you fear that NDSU fans can't afford the ticket price and that there would actually be some Sioux fans at the Fargodome.

Disclaimer: I would prefer that UND-NDSU play every other or every third year and put the South Dakota schools and Northern Iowa into the mix. This is with the caveat that UND gets to join the Big Sky after all the other distractions are addressed.

[82SiouxGuy]

UND FB doesn't have demand so therfore it's gouging the people that regularly show up.

Funny, I have season tickets and I don't feel gouged. Actually, UND doesn't charge season ticket holders any extra for the football games right now because they have plenty of seats. Since hockey sells out most of the games they can do it. And I believe that they will sell single game seats at a premium for select games in football. When demand is high enough, and they start to sell out football games on a regular basis, I expect them to increase prices for premium games across the board.

[choyt3]

UND FB doesn't have demand so therfore it's gouging the people that regularly show up.

Tiered pricing is not unique to the University of North Dakota. For example, the Sioux play at Denver University this coming weekend. Here's a blip from their website regarding ticket pricing: "* please note

: Add $5.00 premium to all single-game prices for the two Colorado College and Minnesota games. Add $8.00 premium to the two North Dakota games."

- source:

http://www.denverpio...&ATCLID=1389586

Is every concert ticket priced the same regardless of the performer?

[mg2009]

Alot of chips would have to fall the right way for that to happen.

How many times have Montana and Montana St. met in the playoffs over the last decade?

It befuddles me the way that NDSU and their fans do not understand the "dynamic" ticket pricing model. UND, along with a plethora of regional schools have taken advantage of it for years................................

I think there is a difference between not understanding and not wanting. What's with UND fan not understanding that NDSU doesn't have anything to gain by playing UND? even if you double prices, it's a wash monetarily (and a huge boon to UND) they don't need to attention because they already have it (UND really does need it), and keeping UND down marginally helps their recruiting. Playing UND annually is no big deal.

I wouldn't mind UND and NDSU playing frequently, but until they are in the same conference, there is no reason, aside from increasing the odds that one or the other is not in the playoffs.

My ideal UND scheduling would look like this: 4 home 4 away conference, fbs money game, home game one and done, and home-home series. For the home-home, something like ndsu ndsu sdsu sdsu national opponent ndsu ndsu usd usd national opponent would be a good mix.

[Cratter]

Would NDSU make more money scheduling UND for a home and home or Georgia Southern like they did?

[mg2009]

Would NDSU make more money scheduling UND for a home and home or Georgia Southern like they did?

apples and oranges. No one has said ndsu and gsu should play an annual series until the end of time, and that contract was the rear end of of a transition era agreement. Of course, rather than play an away game, GSU jumped at the buyout and played a sixth home game against some scrub team. Playing GSU does alot more for NDSU in terms of national reputation than playing UND, same with Montana and MSU, who I think they have series lined up with in the future.

Compared to the status quo of bringing in two meac/ovc/nec/patriot teams, playing an annual home and home with UND is not really in NDSU's interest, and I think that is pretty obvious. UND on the other hand would gain alot, and have the opportunity to gain more, should they notch an upset or two. NDSU is an established player nationally, UND needs to do the same, and from a program point of view, UND doing that would be bad for NDSU.

I know i'm belaboring the point here, but why would NDSU want to do something that would so clearly benefit UND in a significant manner while providing limited, if any, benefit to itself?

Someday they will be in the same conference again, and the series will be annual again. Until then, they won't and shouldn't play annually.

[Bison Dan]

Where were you guys during our transition - and don't give me that crap about DII rules as that was changed the first year of our transition. You guys purposely chose not to play us in any sports - so what goes around comes around.

[Ole in MSP]

Let's see how arrogant NDSU is in a few years when they come back to earth with an average season or two in FB. It is pretty easy to be arrogant right now, but these things cycle and there will be years when things do not go so well. There is nothing in the water that makes NDSU any better over time than anyone else at the FCS level. Enjoy it while it lasts. Fame is fleeting.

[Bison Dan]

Let's see how arrogant NDSU is in a few years when they come back to earth with an average season or two in FB. It is pretty easy to be arrogant right now, but these things cycle and there will be years when things do not go so well. There is nothing in the water that makes NDSU any better over time than anyone else at the FCS level. Enjoy it while it lasts. Fame is fleeting.

Your wishing doesn't make it so. You had fun wishing for our failure during our transition - how that work for you?

[UND1983]

Where were you guys during our transition - and don't give me that crap about DII rules as that was changed the first year of our transition.  You guys purposely chose not to play us in any sports - so what goes around comes around.

For the last time Dan, it is easy to want to keep playing when your first recruiting class(the winter BEFORE the transition started) was aided by the increase to 60 scholarships.   Then, on top of that NDSU brought in Juco transfers to help the process.   These were all things that would have made it uneven within 2 years and were unavailable to UND.  Three years in would have been 3 full classes of full scholarships (63) plus Jucos.

[UND1983]

apples and oranges.  No one has said ndsu and gsu should play an annual series until the end of time, and that contract was the rear end of of a transition era agreement.  Of course, rather than play an away game, GSU jumped at the buyout and played a sixth home game against some scrub team.  Playing GSU does alot more for NDSU in terms of national reputation than playing UND, same with Montana and MSU, who I think they have series lined up with in the future.

Compared to the status quo of bringing in two meac/ovc/nec/patriot teams, playing an annual home and home with UND is not really in NDSU's interest, and I think that is pretty obvious.  UND on the other hand would gain alot, and have the opportunity to gain more, should they notch an upset or two.  NDSU is an established player nationally, UND needs to do the same, and from a program point of view, UND doing that would be bad for NDSU.

I know i'm belaboring the point here, but why would NDSU want to do something that would so clearly benefit UND in a significant manner while providing limited, if any, benefit to itself?

Someday they will be in the same conference again, and the series will be annual again.  Until then, they won't and shouldn't play annually.

You seem to know an awful lot about NDSU and their scheduling-plus an obvious slant towards their side. Is this imposter #5 for the year?

[dmksioux]

For the last time Dan, it is easy to want to keep playing when your first recruiting class(the winter BEFORE the transition started) was aided by the increase to 60 scholarships. Then, on top of that NDSU brought in Juco transfers to help the process. These were all things that would have made it uneven within 2 years and were unavailable to UND. Three years in would have been 3 full classes of full scholarships (63) plus Jucos.

You can count me in the camp that wish we would have kept playing, NDSU. I know it wouldn't have helped us come playoff selection time but so what. To me playing NDSU was a "championship game." If we had a bad season, it could still be classified as "a good season" in my book if we beat NDSU. I didn't hear too many people complaining when we scheduled the UNI or SUU game and we were still DII.

That being said, I understand, to a degree, why UND didn't want to play NDSU. NDSU fans still rip UND about those reasons today. Now the tables have turned. UND fans are wanting the game to be played and NDSU fans are coming up with excuses as to why they don't want to/why it's not good for them to play the game. Does anyone see the irony in that?

[Bison Dan]

For the last time Dan, it is easy to want to keep playing when your first recruiting class(the winter BEFORE the transition started) was aided by the increase to 60 scholarships. Then, on top of that NDSU brought in Juco transfers to help the process. These were all things that would have made it uneven within 2 years and were unavailable to UND. Three years in would have been 3 full classes of full scholarships (63) plus Jucos.

We'll it was your loss as history has shown.

[UNDColorado]

Oh Dan we will play again. As of right now who gives a !@$! who was right and wrong. For now we have our own battles and issues to deal with right now. Once we move on we can then start pointing fingers again until arthritis sets in.

[darell1976]

You can count me in the camp that wish we would have kept playing, NDSU. I know it wouldn't have helped us come playoff selection time but so what. To me playing NDSU was a "championship game." If we had a bad season, it could still be classified as "a good season" in my book if we beat NDSU. I didn't hear too many people complaining when we scheduled the UNI or SUU game and we were still DII.

That being said, I understand, to a degree, why UND didn't want to play NDSU. NDSU fans still rip UND about those reasons today. Now the tables have turned. UND fans are wanting the game to be played and NDSU fans are coming up with excuses as to why they don't want to/why it's not good for them to play the game. Does anyone see the irony in that?

Its not like NDSU would have won every game. UND beat Southern Utah and Northern Iowa while we were in DII. SDSU lost to DIII Wisconsin-Lacrosse. So anything could have happened.

[Ole in MSP]

Your wishing doesn't make it so. You had fun wishing for our failure during our transition - how that work for you?

I did, and I am still having fun watching as UND is closing the gap even though 5 years behind. Things will even out over time. They always do.

[ozzie679]

The NDSU/UND football game should be scheduled annually. It's a one of the greatest NCAA football rivalries at any level. As an outsider, I think it's strange that there's even a debate on the issue.

[bincitysioux]

Good lord, I hate to post in this thread. I've been pretty consistent over the years about my desire to NOT schedule NDSU in football. IMO it doesn't greatly help either program in football like it does in every other common sport. But I grow tired of hearing how it would be financial loser for NDSU to play North Dakota every other year in football.

I'll use round numbers to make it simple...............

If NDSU bought an NEC, Patriot League, Pioneer Leage, or OVC team for it's home non-conference game over 4 years:

• With attendance of 18,000 (near capacity) at $20 per seat NDSU would gross $1,440,000 over 4 years
  
• Assuming a conservative payout cost of $125,000 to buy an opponent each year, total cost would be $500,000
  
• Over 4 years, that is a net profit of $940,000
  
  If NDSU and UND played home-and-home every other year over 4 years:

  • With attendance of 19,000 (capacity) at $25 per seat (a very modest dynamic pricing model) NDSU would gross $950,000 over 4 years
    
  • They would have no expense except the cost of a 70 mile bus trip
    
  • Over 4 years, that is a net profit of $950,000
    

  Additionaly, this doesn't account for the extra media coverage that a series would produce. At the very least, it would GUARANTEE at least one more televised game for both schools each year that it was played.

  It is really too bad that NDSU doesn't have competent administrators that understand the "dynamic pricing" model for tickets. They are about the only school in our loosely defined region that hasn't adopted the model. As I recall, Minnesota Gopher fans could not purchase tickets to see their hated rival Iowa Hawkeyes play in Minneapolis without also buying tickets to see the Gophers play NDSU......................