Penn State 'close" to adding hockey

[squirtcoach]

On the other hand, Minnesota would lose home ice advantage and the Friday night rule in the conference playoffs.

[The Sicatoka]

Purdue and Iowa will get their butts kicked.

I hear Minnesota is thinking about playing hockey ...

[dagies]

I hear Minnesota is thinking about playing hockey ...

Men's?

[farce poobah]

Men's?

Of course; they already have two women's teams.

(Thanks for the setup.)

[Blackheart]

I hear Minnesota is thinking about playing hockey ...

Ice or Field?

[redwing77]

How's this wild idea:

BTHC is formed and UMN and UW bolt for it.

CCHA starts sinking and teams start looking elsewhere.

NMU applies to rejoin the WCHA.

Then again, which would be the other school to apply?

I think it would be "nice" (if such a wild hair-brained idea should occur) to see if we could nab Miami-Ohio despite the geography issue it would entail.

And I think Miami would be responsive to it so they could be in a conference that was still relevant.

Anyways, is this wild idea even feasible?

[star2city]

How's this wild idea:

BTHC is formed and UMN and UW bolt for it.

CCHA starts sinking and teams start looking elsewhere.

NMU applies to rejoin the WCHA.

Then again, which would be the other school to apply?

I think it would be "nice" (if such a wild hair-brained idea should occur) to see if we could nab Miami-Ohio despite the geography issue it would entail.

And I think Miami would be responsive to it so they could be in a conference that was still relevant.

Anyways, is this wild idea even feasible?

Miami and Notre Dame will stick together. Notre Dame won't be let in any BTHC unless they submit to Delany's demands and join in all sports, which won't happen. Kalamazoo will likely get a new rink, so Western Michigan will be in that group as well, and possibly Bowling Green. Denver and CC would much rather be in a Notre Dame-led league than a WCHA with mostly regional Minnesota schools. If that happens, Omaha would quite the WCHA also and move to the Notre Dame conference. Then UND would probably switch as the Denver-Notre Dame league would have more power teams, better media coverage, more TV contracts, and would better rival the BTHC.

So, in the event of a BTHC, will it be likely that UND and Miami are in the same conference? Yes. But not likely IMHO in the WCHA.

[808287]

Ice or Field?

Table!

[Goon]

Miami and Notre Dame will stick together. Notre Dame won't be let in any BTHC unless they submit to Delany's demands and join in all sports, which won't happen. Kalamazoo will likely get a new rink, so Western Michigan will be in that group as well, and possibly Bowling Green. Denver and CC would much rather be in a Notre Dame-led league than a WCHA with mostly regional Minnesota schools. If that happens, Omaha would quite the WCHA also and move to the Notre Dame conference. Then UND would probably switch as the Denver-Notre Dame league would have more power teams, better media coverage, more TV contracts, and would better rival the BTHC.

So, in the event of a BTHC, will it be likely that UND and Miami are in the same conference? Yes. But not likely IMHO in the WCHA.

Can we say super conference in division one hockey? Maybe conference could be ruled irrelevant and big time match ups the norm?

I think anything is possible. I do think a realignment is coming in the future.

[star2city]

Can we say super conference in division one hockey? Maybe conference could be ruled irrelevant and big time match ups the norm?

I think anything is possible. I do think a realignment is coming in the future.

I'm actually of the opinion that a BTHC would help the growth of DI hockey.

- Other Big Ten schools might add the sport (Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern)

- With a Notre Dame/North Dakota/Denver superleague, other major schools like Iowa State, DePaul, Marquette, Colorado St might get serious -

- Minnesota regional schools will still sponsor hockey and Minnesota will still play them at least in Mariucci or Xcel tournaments

- Michigan smaller-school hockey might be more problematic, but those schools would keep hockey and drop football if they had to

[Goon]

I'm actually of the opinion that a BTHC would help the growth of DI hockey.

- Other Big Ten schools might add the sport (Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern)

- With a Notre Dame/North Dakota/Denver superleague, other major schools like Iowa State, DePaul, Marquette, Colorado St might get serious -

- Minnesota regional schools will still sponsor hockey and Minnesota will still play them at least in Mariucci or Xcel tournaments

- Michigan smaller-school hockey might be more problematic, but those schools would keep hockey and drop football if they had to

Something eventually is going to have to give.

[mksioux]

Miami and Notre Dame will stick together. Notre Dame won't be let in any BTHC unless they submit to Delany's demands and join in all sports, which won't happen. Kalamazoo will likely get a new rink, so Western Michigan will be in that group as well, and possibly Bowling Green. Denver and CC would much rather be in a Notre Dame-led league than a WCHA with mostly regional Minnesota schools. If that happens, Omaha would quite the WCHA also and move to the Notre Dame conference. Then UND would probably switch as the Denver-Notre Dame league would have more power teams, better media coverage, more TV contracts, and would better rival the BTHC.

So, in the event of a BTHC, will it be likely that UND and Miami are in the same conference? Yes. But not likely IMHO in the WCHA.

The one thing you are not taking into account is the possibility that UND will be blindly loyal to the WCHA. I think that would be a mistake, but I think it's a distinct possibility.

Personally, I agree with you that if Minnesota and Wisconsin leave the WCHA, it's every school for itself and UND needs to do whatever it has to do to be best positioned to stay competitive on a national level.

[star2city]

The one thing you are not taking into account is the possibility that UND will be blindly loyal to the WCHA. I think that would be a mistake, but I think it's a distinct possibility.

I'm not so sure that UND admin would be blindly loyal to the WCHA, but a large portion of the fan base probably would demand it. The biggest issue would possibly be leaving the Final Five, but if the Big Ten schools are gone it might not be the spectacle it is now. If UND could be in a superleague that limits conference games to 20, UND could still play the Minnesota schools as well as the Gophs and Sconnie.

Personally, I agree with you that if Minnesota and Wisconsin leave the WCHA, it's every school for itself and UND needs to do whatever it has to do to be best positioned to stay competitive on a national level.

UND needs to make a pact and work with DU and Notre Dame/Miami. Those four would be the cornerstones of a new league that would rival the Big Ten. Without Minnesota and Wisconsin, the WCHA could practically be renamed the Northern Sun. Staying in the WCHA at that point would be counter to both the reason why Ralph gifted the REA and the move to DI.

[burd]

If Penn State adds hockey, they gotta let JoPa coach at least a game, just to get the atmosphere right. With those glasses of his, it would look like a Hanson brother in their box. Good ol Pennsylvania hockey . . .

[redwing77]

Sorry about my earlier scenario. I forgot to say that I assumed Notre Dame would be allowed into the BTHC Despite Delaney's shenanigans.

I guess that's not likely to happen.

I think it would be neat to have a conference, should the BTHC exist that includes:

UND

DU

CC

UMD

UNO

Notre Dame

Miami

SCSU

Reform the CCHA into:

NMU

WMU

MTU

BSU

FSU

LSSU

BGSU

MSUM

UAA

UAF

OSU

UAH

Though I might be forgetting someone...

And I admit that the idea is probably more hair brained than my original wild idea.

[Goon]

Sorry about my earlier scenario. I forgot to say that I assumed Notre Dame would be allowed into the BTHC Despite Delaney's shenanigans.

I guess that's not likely to happen.

I think it would be neat to have a conference, should the BTHC exist that includes:

UND

DU

CC

UMD

UNO

Notre Dame

Miami

SCSU

Reform the CCHA into:

NMU

WMU

MTU

BSU

FSU

LSSU

BGSU

MSUM

UAA

UAF

OSU

UAH

Though I might be forgetting someone...

And I admit that the idea is probably more hair brained than my original wild idea.

OSU is going be in the BTHC if there is one.

[ScottM]

UND needs to make a pact and work with DU and Notre Dame/Miami. Those four would be the cornerstones of a new league that would rival the Big Ten. Without Minnesota and Wisconsin, the WCHA could practically be renamed the Northern Sun. Staying in the WCHA at that point would be counter to both the reason why Ralph gifted the REA and the move to DI.

The more I think about it, I believe UND's D1 aspirations would probably drive it to align with other schools with D1 sports. The current array of non-B10 schools in the WCHA is largely D2. It would make no sense for the D1 movers to schedule Michigan Tech if they can get some multi-sport D1 deal with a Miami or ND. I think the non-D1 schools like St. Cloud, Bemidji, etc. would have more difficulty doing the same, and they may be forced to align themselves into a different group.

[The Sicatoka]

The more I think about it, I believe UND's D1 aspirations would probably drive it to align with other schools with D1 sports. The current array of non-B10 schools in the WCHA is largely D2. It would make no sense for the D1 movers to schedule Michigan Tech if they can get some multi-sport D1 deal with a Miami or ND. I think the non-D1 schools like St. Cloud, Bemidji, etc. would have more difficulty doing the same, and they may be forced to align themselves into a different group.

The Big Ten commish has already stated that if they needed hockey affiliate members they'd prefer Division I schools, FBS Division I schools* (and UND is FCS). So while I agree with the sentiment that Scott is putting out (the DIs looking out for the other DIs), UND might not be DI-enough in some eyes.

* http://boardsroom.blogspot.com/2009/10/strange-bedfellows-why-big-ten-hockey.html

[star2city]

The Big Ten commish has already stated that if they needed hockey affiliate members they'd prefer Division I schools, FBS Division I schools* (and UND is FCS). So while I agree with the sentiment that Scott is putting out (the DIs looking out for the other DIs), UND might not be DI-enough in some eyes.

* http://boardsroom.blogspot.com/2009/10/strange-bedfellows-why-big-ten-hockey.html

With Penn State hockey imminent, with the Big Ten eyeing further expansion and with the Big Ten having no history of adding affiliate schools in select sports, the chances of UND being a part of a BTHC are now very remote. Also, politically, Minnesota and Michigan schools will want to get a BTHC at low membership so they can play in-state schools. That being said, affiliation with Notre Dame post-BTHC will likely require DI affiliation. Paul Tagliabue is working with the Big East to start it's own network, and hockey with a Notre Dame super-league could very well be on their plate. Schools like Western Michigan and Bowling Green - as bad as their hockey facilities are- would probably get a look just from the DI-FBS standpoint.

Theoretically, the idea of a Big East hockey conference could open the potential for a number of schools to start hockey: Syracuse, DePaul, Marquette, Pitt and entice Connecticut to start offering men's scholarships. To get started, a "Big East" conference would first need hockey power schools: like UND, Miami, Denver to go with Notre Dame. Granted, a Big East hockey conference is probably way out there in speculation: but a Big East Network is being worked on right now, and, just like the BTN, it will want a wide variety or programming.

[star2city]

If Penn State adds hockey, they gotta let JoPa coach at least a game, just to get the atmosphere right. With those glasses of his, it would look like a Hanson brother in their box. Good ol Pennsylvania hockey . . .

Maybe after that on-ice performance, Joe Pa could finally retire.

[redwing77]

OSU is going be in the BTHC if there is one.

DOH!

Forgot about their football affiliation.

Hmmmm... then the CCHA would need another team to round things out.

[dakotadan]

The Big Ten commish has already stated that if they needed hockey affiliate members they'd prefer Division I schools, FBS Division I schools* (and UND is FCS). So while I agree with the sentiment that Scott is putting out (the DIs looking out for the other DIs), UND might not be DI-enough in some eyes.

* http://boardsroom.blogspot.com/2009/10/strange-bedfellows-why-big-ten-hockey.html

http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/14115-und-needs-to-be-talking-with-the-wac/

[IronFist]

Theoretically, the idea of a Big East hockey conference could open the potential for a number of schools to start hockey: Syracuse, DePaul, Marquette, Pitt and entice Connecticut to start offering men's scholarships. To get started, a "Big East" conference would first need hockey power schools: like UND, Miami, Denver to go with Notre Dame. Granted, a Big East hockey conference is probably way out there in speculation: but a Big East Network is being worked on right now, and, just like the BTN, it will want a wide variety or programming.

As much as I would like this to happen, I am not getting my hopes up. Because I don't have much time this morning, I'll re-post something I wrote on another forum:

"As for Syracuse adding a men's hockey program, there have been rumors, but I'm not getting my hopes up about PSU being the impetus that will get the ball rolling at SU. The women's hockey team was started to fulfill Title IX requirements. Adding a men's squad would require scholarships (unless they wanted to half-ass it like UConn has been doing), adding another women's sport, and having an adequate arena (the Tennety Ice Skating Pavilion is too small for D1 men's hockey, and the dumpy War Memorial is too far off-campus and wouldn't have scheduling priority). SU has been spending money on upgrading facilities like the Manley Field House, and in another decade or two, they will likely need to replace the Carrier Dome. With these capital expenditures, SU probably won't have the funds to build a state-of-the-art hockey arena suitable for big-time men's hockey. They decided to drop their swimming and diving programs after concluding that these programs would require a new complex that the university did not want to spend $30+ million on. Based on UConn's lack of success, hockey at a "name brand" school isn't automatically a smashing hit. In UConn's case, it has been an utter disaster on and off the ice. They are one of the worst programs in D1, have no fan support, and between their men's and women's programs have been operating deep in the red. As with UConn, a hockey team at SU would be competing with the most successful sport on campus, men's basketball. Everything considered, I don't see SU adding D1 hockey unless they a) receive a massive donation similar to the one that PSU is rumored to receive from one of its billionaire alums, and b) were guaranteed immediate inclusion into the Hockey East. And even then, it wouldn't be a tap-in putt. Otherwise, the best they can do is hope for the construction of a new on-campus basketball arena in the future, that would double as a hockey arena similar to the Mullins Center at UMass."

[Millsy]

Sorry about my earlier scenario. I forgot to say that I assumed Notre Dame would be allowed into the BTHC Despite Delaney's shenanigans.

I guess that's not likely to happen.

I think it would be neat to have a conference, should the BTHC exist that includes:

UND

DU

CC

UMD

UNO

Notre Dame

Miami

SCSU

Reform the CCHA into:

NMU

WMU

MTU

BSU

FSU

LSSU

BGSU

MSUM

UAA

UAF

OSU

UAH

Though I might be forgetting someone...

And I admit that the idea is probably more hair brained than my original wild idea.

Wow, how did Bemidji and Mankato end up with the Michigan Schools? Travel would kill their budgets (and probably programs) when UND, SCSU, UMD and UNO are all closer.

I think if the Big Ten schools break off, you will need to see a more regional alliance. This will help offset the travel part of the budget with the monies lost from possibly not playing the Minnesotas and Wisconsins of the hockey world.

[82SiouxGuy]

Wow, how did Bemidji and Mankato end up with the Michigan Schools? Travel would kill their budgets (and probably programs) when UND, SCSU, UMD and UNO are all closer.

I think if the Big Ten schools break off, you will need to see a more regional alliance. This will help offset the travel part of the budget with the monies lost from possibly not playing the Minnesotas and Wisconsins of the hockey world.

A regional alliance makes sense for most of the smaller schools with smaller buildings. But schools like UND, Denver and Colorado College are used to traveling a great deal anyway. They have the tradition of playing the top programs in the country because historically they are among the top programs in the country. So playing in a regional alliance with mainly the smaller Minnesota schools would not be desirable to the hockey programs or the fan bases of a school like UND.