April 6th, 2010 - Standing Rock Council Decision

[Oxbow6]

I think you're reading way too much into what happened. It's much more likely that SR is just waiting out the clock so the nickname is dropped by the SBoHE without SR having to take a formal position on it. Nothing more than political cover, which cowardly politicians do all the time. I don't see any way to take any positives out of what happened yesterday. The only question is whether the SBoHE will wait until the Supreme Court rules to drop the nickname or drops it now.

I'm in total agreement with your analysis on this.

[MplsBison]

You've stated a number of times how you don't care either way about the nickname of UND, yet you seem to be pretty mad about SIOUX FANS reactions to this inaction by the SR Tribal Council. Why? Donnie, you're out of your element.

I just think it's funny how far some on this board will go to spin any news into saving the nickname. This is obviously the nail in the coffin for the nickname and the SBoHE will be retiring the nickname tomorrow, in turn prompting the ND supreme court to dismiss the SL lawsuit.

Yet you might think the nickname supporters just won a key decision if you listen to the board spin masters.

I just want this over with so UND can get into the Summit and everything will be behind everyone. The new way forward partnership between NDSU and UND will be another step closer to reality and all you old-timer, anti-change folks can sit on it.

[Oxbow6]

Come on SBoHE...do the right thing. End this debate! Everyone is looking to you now to step up and be the leader!

I hope that was said tongue in cheek!? After being led around like a collared dog by Whiskey Joe, I wouldn't say that "leadership" is a trait of the SBoHE!!

[MplsBison]

Go back and ready my option/point: SR has effectively a) made the ND SBoHE the "heavy". That's what you're saying too.

Deep down inside I know what is really going on: Both sides are letting the clock run out so they can claim it wasn't their action.

But which clock matters? Nov 2010 or June 2010?

If someone in power at UND, ND SBoHE or the Summit League would come out and basically say that UND has a guaranteed spot after Nov 2010, then I would shut up and be fine to let the clock tick away until this Nov.

We all know nothing is going to get done, even until then. As you aptly put, each side is content to sit on their hands for another 7 months and do nothing.

But as far as I know, if nothing happens by June, UND loses at least another year in the Summit. And it's another year lost for no chance at saving the nickname. Worst case, Summit moves on and UND doesn't find a conference for 5-10 years, again for no chance at saving the nickname. Why risk it?

So what if the ND SBoHE has to take the fall as the 'bad guy that killed the nickname'. Step up and be the leader.

[The Sicatoka]

But which clock matters? Nov 2010 or June 2010?

If someone in power at UND, ND SBoHE or the Summit League would come out and basically say that UND has a guaranteed spot after Nov 2010, then I would shut up and be fine to let the clock tick away until this Nov.

I've never seen a formal document saying "June 2010" (heard a lot of noise, but seen nothing formally written down) so the only answer I can say is "Nov 2010", which is documented.

Come out and say? That would require action. Don't expect it.

[The Sicatoka]

So what if the ND SBoHE has to take the fall as the 'bad guy that killed the nickname'. Step up and be the leader.

That too would require action.

They're all going to do nothing and then act surprised when nothing's happened come November.

[GeauxSioux]

That too would require action.

They're all going to do nothing and then act surprised when nothing's happened come November.

For some reason I believe today is the day that the SBoHE says "change the name". If something had come out of SR yesterday that said that we plan to have a vote on this issue, the SBoHE would likely have tabled the issue. Inaction on the part of the SR allows the SBoHE room to say "well we gave them a chance to move a vote forward".

[Knickball2]

Sicatoka, I believe you hit the nail on the head. The members of the SBoHE don't have the gonads to drop the name and take the

blame. Standing Rock will be handed back the hot potato and will have a vote. Relax, media isn't going to decide this, the majority at

Standing Rock will be the people to determine the fate of the nickname/logo. I've been seeing posts for almost a year telling me that

the nickname/logo is dead, hey I just bought a new windshirt with the logo prominantly displayed. Logo and nickname still have a pulse,

I'm not in a panic. Time will tell! Hey Oxbow, that Whiskey Joe comment is really funny...

[MplsBison]

I've never seen a formal document saying "June 2010" (heard a lot of noise, but seen nothing formally written down) so the only answer I can say is "Nov 2010", which is documented.

Come out and say? That would require action. Don't expect it.

Right, because as we all know everything must be documented and all things documented must be made available to the public.

Don't throw a tantrum if the Nov date is not upheld.

[MplsBison]

Sicatoka, I believe you hit the nail on the head. The members of the SBoHE don't have the gonads to drop the name and take the

blame. Standing Rock will be handed back the hot potato and will have a vote. Relax, media isn't going to decide this, the majority at

Standing Rock will be the people to determine the fate of the nickname/logo. I've been seeing posts for almost a year telling me that

the nickname/logo is dead, hey I just bought a new windshirt with the logo prominantly displayed. Logo and nickname still have a pulse,

I'm not in a panic. Time will tell! Hey Oxbow, that Whiskey Joe comment is really funny...

With both Faison and Kelley telling them that the nickname needs to be dropped in order to get into the Summit as quickly as possible, the SBoHE will find its gonads right quick.

If there were no big rush to get into the Summit, then you and Sic would probably end up being right...wait until Nov and do nothing.

But there is a call to action and the SBoHE will stand up to answer the call.

[The Sicatoka]

Don't throw a tantrum if the Nov date is not upheld.

Tantrum? Never have; never will. (You spin me as a hard-liner. I'm not. I just want to see this play out with open integrity to try to minimize the whining after whatever result comes about.)

I'll be surprised if someone actually does something, any real action, in any of this. To this point, all parties have used this as an exposition of action avoidance.

[Oxbow6]

With both Faison and Kelley telling them that the nickname needs to be dropped in order to get into the Summit as quickly as possible, the SBoHE will find its gonads right quick.

Honestly, I'm still waiting for Fasion to do something pro-UND. He, along with Kelley, is anti-nickname (I don't think that's a stretch) and he wants it his way with the NDSU/UND FB game/rivalry and is shooting himself in the foot on that issue as well.

He's like a politician acting on his own or following party lines regardless of their constituent's thoughts (insert any of our 3 ND congressmen here).

[krangodance]

With both Faison and Kelley telling them that the nickname needs to be dropped in order to get into the Summit as quickly as possible, the SBoHE will find its gonads right quick.

If there were no big rush to get into the Summit, then you and Sic would probably end up being right...wait until Nov and do nothing.

But there is a call to action and the SBoHE will stand up to answer the call.

didn't the summit already say they weren't going to consider a und application for membership this year?

[MoSiouxFan]

Honestly, I'm still waiting for Fasion to do something pro-UND. He, along with Kelley, is anti-nickname (I don't think that's a stretch) and he wants it his way with the NDSU/UND FB game/rivalry and is shooting himself in the foot on that issue as well.

He's like a politician acting on his own or following party lines regardless of their constituent's thoughts (insert any of our 3 ND congressmen here).

You got that right.

[krangodance]

Honestly, I'm still waiting for Fasion to do something pro-UND. He, along with Kelley, is anti-nickname (I don't think that's a stretch) and he wants it his way with the NDSU/UND FB game/rivalry and is shooting himself in the foot on that issue as well.

He's like a politician acting on his own or following party lines regardless of their constituent's thoughts (insert any of our 3 ND congressmen here).

you bring up a great point. i never thought of it before, but is it possible that faison shot down taylor's offer of an every other year und/ndsu football game because he feels that scenario reduces the need to get rid of the logo/nickname quickly?

i don't think the logic is sound, but i could see faison thinking along the line of:

"if i shoot down this every other year option, then everybody involved will have to find a way to get und into the same football conference as ndsu. one catalyst to that goal is to get other und sports in the same conference as ndsu (ie. the summit league). the quickest way into the summit league (in faison's mind) is by getting rid of the sioux nickname/logo. therefore, i'll shoot this every other year option down because that furthers my cause, which is getting rid of the sioux nickname/logo".

just a theory, but it's not far-fetched by any means and it would at least offer some explanation as to why faison shot down the every other year und/ndsu football game option because no other good explanation has been offered yet.

[siouxforeverbaby]

http://www.wdaz.com/

See for yourself. Facts is Facts!!

and the Herald article says otherwise....but I give up, there is no reasoning with some....back on ignore

[MplsBison]

didn't the summit already say they weren't going to consider a und application for membership this year?

From what I've read there is no chance of UND joining the Summit for 2011-2012 and if they don't have this thing wrapped up by early this summer it sounds like 2012-2013 would be out the window as well.

[rochsioux]

If the SBoHE wants to keep the nickname, then they would make a statement to the effect that they are going to give the tribes the full available time up to Nov. We are now 7 months from the deadline, it would be idiotic to terminate the name at this point.

If Murphy was really in favor of the nickname or at least letting the tribal members vote on it, he would have issued a statement that the tribal leadership will work towards a vote on the issue if the SBoHE will give them the full amount of time, Nov. 2010.

The fact that neither side is willing can only mean that both sides want to terminate the name but don't want to be blamed.

If SR would schedule a vote on the nickname, IMO, there is no way in he!! that the SBoHE would terminate the name early. It would be a political disaster.

Pretty sad when you have leadership like this. By every possible measure, a sigificant majority of the tribes and the general population are in favor of keeping the nickname. The leadership of the SBoHE and SR seem to be doing everything they can to ensure that the name goes (while avoiding the blame).

[Sioux2007]

If the SBoHE wants to keep the nickname, then they would make a statement to the effect that they are going to give the tribes the full available time up to Nov. We are now 7 months from the deadline, it would be idiotic to terminate the name at this point.

If Murphy was really in favor of the nickname or at least letting the tribal members vote on it, he would have issued a statement that the tribal leadership will work towards a vote on the issue if the SBoHE will give them the full amount of time, Nov. 2010.

The fact that neither side is willing can only mean that both sides want to terminate the name but don't want to be blamed.

If SR would schedule a vote on the nickname, IMO, there is no way in he!! that the SBoHE would terminate the name early. It would be a political disaster.

Pretty sad when you have leadership like this. By every possible measure, a sigificant majority of the tribes and the general population are in favor of keeping the nickname. The leadership of the SBoHE and SR seem to be doing everything they can to ensure that the name goes (while avoiding the blame).

Both sides are just trying to was their hands of the situation. It's really stupid and unprofessional in my opinion. I'm so sick of the situation, but I can't give up hope on the SIOUX nickname! I'm a diehard fan and will be very dissapointed if we lose the nickname!

[FargoBison]

All they are doing is running out the clock, eventually enough time will have run out where everyone involved won't have to make an actual decision but they can tell everyone they tried. Which is BS but it is politics and that is the game they are playing.

[dmksioux]

you bring up a great point. i never thought of it before, but is it possible that faison shot down taylor's offer of an every other year und/ndsu football game because he feels that scenario reduces the need to get rid of the logo/nickname quickly?

i don't think the logic is sound, but i could see faison thinking along the line of:

"if i shoot down this every other year option, then everybody involved will have to find a way to get und into the same football conference as ndsu. one catalyst to that goal is to get other und sports in the same conference as ndsu (ie. the summit league). the quickest way into the summit league (in faison's mind) is by getting rid of the sioux nickname/logo. therefore, i'll shoot this every other year option down because that furthers my cause, which is getting rid of the sioux nickname/logo".

just a theory, but it's not far-fetched by any means and it would at least offer some explanation as to why faison shot down the every other year und/ndsu football game option because no other good explanation has been offered yet.

Wrong...Summit does not sponser football. I'm not sure why Faison doesn't want an every other year contract, but the nickname is not the reason why.

[The Sicatoka]

All they are doing is running out the clock, eventually enough time will have run out where everyone involved won't have to make an actual decision but they can tell everyone they tried. Which is BS but it is politics and that is the game they are playing.

We've found one thing we agree on.

[homer]

All they are doing is running out the clock, eventually enough time will have run out where everyone involved won't have to make an actual decision but they can tell everyone they tried. Which is BS but it is politics and that is the game they are playing.

I agree with this. Than UND will be left standing with no nickname and no conference. In my mind its apparent SR doesn't want to hold a vote and the higher ups at UND know how important conference affiliation is. Easiest way to satisfy both is just change it now. Than when SR tries to say we didn't give them enough time we can point at yesterday and ask them exactly how much time they need. They had a chance to take action and prove they truely wanted the name to remain but instead voted as they did.

[darell1976]

Just a side question: Is there anything per the NCAA agreement that requires UND to get a new nickname by a certain date?

[homer]

Wrong...Summit does not sponser football. I'm not sure why Faison doesn't want an every other year contract, but the nickname is not the reason why.

I believe its because until ndsu actually fills their schedule for next year and the year after and the year after with 6 home games like Taylor says he will do than UND and Faison still hold a little bit of negotiating power. Right now Faison looks a little silly but he is also the one who has to schedule 7 non conference games per year. He can decide every other year is the way to go anytime he wants. Taylor is not going to pull that offer. If he says no but still doesn't have his schedules filled for more than 2 or 3 years out than who looks silly. It doesn't hurt UND and Faison to hold out. If Taylor can only schedule a DII or lower this year for a 6th home game people are going to have to ask why he didn't take UND's every year offer.

Now back to SR deciding its best to drop the nickname.