NDSU - UND game 2010

[VMeister]

Not so fast my friends.

Coyotes will win this game . Not a doubt in my mind.

For some reason I really like this guy.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

For some reason I really like this guy.

I'm with you. And..Coyotes will win.

[johnson]

There is no need to wait until UND is playoff eligible, that's irrelevant. Just ask Montana about the 2010 season.

One argument against scheduling the game every year is that NDSU wants to have 6 home games and traveling to both an FBS away game and to Grand Forks in the same season prevents that.

So then why play at South Dakota in 2013? Perhaps there will be no FBS away game that season.

2013 is a 12 game season. NDSU can still have a FBS away game, travel to USD and have 6 home games.

[tjbison]

This was inappropriate. Please keep the discussion about the topic at hand (a potential UND vs NDSU game).

Thank you, Lets make fun of a disaster that could have wrecked alot of peoples lives and non the less the states largest city, now

Yes NDSU was down this year, its called youth, will we beat USD who knows? should we? YES, can they beat us? Yes. I will say one thing though we WILL have a different offense this year as our Receiving corp will have depth, height, and SPEED. Our d-backs have the talent and Speed to compete witht he other valley teams its just a matter of coming together. Yes the MVC has overall good teams I know alot on here like to look at their records and make statements, but I've watched every game and noticed a huge difference in athletes, with the biggest being speed. The last recruiting classes were all speedy so that will help.

[MplsBison]

2013 is a 12 game season. NDSU can still have a FBS away game, travel to USD and have 6 home games.

Not so fast.

With the expansion of the playoffs to beyond 16, there will to be 5 rounds. Therefore, I don't believe that such 12 games in 13 week seasons are going to exist anymore.

[MplsBison]

...And yet in four of the last five years -- 80 percent of the time (including, apparently, 2010) -- Taylor has been unable to reach this goal. In the single year he managed six at home, the schedule included that perennial powerhouse Central Conneticut and fan-favorite Austin Peay. Last year, the AC handed out wads of cash to lure in Wagner College of the Maritime Arts and Knot-Tying, just to get to five.

Assuming this was a serious argument from the outset -- and I have my doubts -- recent history has proven it to be a fallacy. Virtually no respectable team with hopes of reaching the play-offs is willing to sign on for a one-and-done deal on the road. As conferences get larger, there are dwindling options for OOC games, and when the Bison find an opponent for sale, they're settling for yawners -- at a big price.

It's in the hands of Kelley and Hanson now, but according to Faison, there won't be a game until its an annual contest. What will Gene T's next objection be? Too expensive to travel?

I was completely in the boat of doing the 6 home game thing with an FBS away game and 2 guarantee games vs. weak opponents.

Then I realized that our guys can get just as hurt playing weak teams on that Fargodome turf as they can playing good teams. Couple that with SDSU's success last year and their annual, brutal schedules, and I'm re-thinking my position.

Now I think I'm in the boat where I would still like to see the FBS away game every year (vs a regional Big Ten or Big XII team), but then I think NDSU should have 5 home games with two, alternating home/homes vs. quality FCS teams.

But then again, as long as NDSU is doing fairly well, any home game should draw at least 18k. That may be too good of money to pass up.

[johnson]

I was completely in the boat of doing the 6 home game thing with an FBS away game and 2 guarantee games vs. weak opponents.

Then I realized that our guys can get just as hurt playing weak teams on that Fargodome turf as they can playing good teams. Couple that with SDSU's success last year and their annual, brutal schedules, and I'm re-thinking my position.

Now I think I'm in the boat where I would still like to see the FBS away game every year (vs a regional Big Ten or Big XII team), but then I think NDSU should have 5 home games with two, alternating home/homes vs. quality FCS teams.

But then again, as long as NDSU is doing fairly well, any home game should draw at least 18k. That may be too good of money to pass up.

Taylor has explained this already. The amount of money NDSU is making for home games is the reason why he wants 6 home games. He has stated that they would have to schedule two FBS schools a year to make up for the amount that would be lost if they went on the road instead of having a home game. Now if NDSU continues to struggle and ticket sales slump then that argument would be irrelevant.

[Shawn-O]

Not so fast.

With the expansion of the playoffs to beyond 16, there will to be 5 rounds. Therefore, I don't believe that such 12 games in 13 week seasons are going to exist anymore.

They extended the FCS Championship game into January, so I think there will still be 12 game seasons.

[Hammersmith]

Not so fast.

With the expansion of the playoffs to beyond 16, there will to be 5 rounds. Therefore, I don't believe that such 12 games in 13 week seasons are going to exist anymore.

Not so fast.

With the moving of the championship game to late Dec/early Jan, the extra round doesn't matter. In any case, if there was going to be a rule change, it would have happened already. It hasn't; it won't.

edit: Shawn beat me to it.

[moser53]

I believe it was Lou Holtz who wants Colleges to have one spring official football game.

UND ana SU should play twice a year spring and fall.

There would be lots to talk about if that ever came to be . Count me in.

Hammersmith start a nationwide campaign to get this going. I'll bet the players would love it.

[dakotadan]

Thank you, Lets make fun of a disaster that could have wrecked alot of peoples lives and non the less the states largest city, now

Why not? Considering the horrible things that have been posted on bisonville about GF and the flood of '97, alot worse would have to be posted here to ever begin to catch up. It was posts a few years ago wishing for GF to flood again that were the final straw for me to quit reading that forum.

[MplsBison]

They extended the FCS Championship game into January, so I think there will still be 12 game seasons.

We'll see I guess, but I'm doubtful that they're going to let a team play 12 regular season games then potentially 5 playoffs games.

[Herd]

I've heard (my ears) Faison say play will resume as a continuing series or not at all. He's not interested in a single game.

That's where NDSU's taking on of a contract with USD seems a very, shall we say, interesting move by NDSU.

A continuing series, however, most likely will be every other year, or 3 out of 4. NDSU has 3 non-conference games each year, 1 will be FBS, and that doesn't leave much room for trying to get 6 home games when possible. Every year in a 12 game FBS schedule like Iowa/Iowa St. is easier than an every game in a 11 game schedule. I doubt that every year will happen, regardless of what Faison would prefer. If UND insists on every year, there will probably be more NDSU/USD games.

[SooToo]

A continuing series, however, most likely will be every other year, or 3 out of 4. NDSU has 3 non-conference games each year, 1 will be FBS, and that doesn't leave much room for trying to get 6 home games when possible. Every year in a 12 game FBS schedule like Iowa/Iowa St. is easier than an every game in a 11 game schedule. I doubt that every year will happen, regardless of what Faison would prefer. If UND insists on every year, there will probably be more NDSU/USD games.

Again, when does NDSU get six home games? Just once in the last five years, and then with Central Conneticut and Austin Peay. Don't think that argument holds much water. I've never checked the math, but I've also never understood the argument that NDSU would be better off with six home games (again, assuming you could get them) than regular home-and-home v UND. Assuming you get an OOC opponent that can draw 18,000 and assuming the average ticket (factoring in students) is what, $10, that grosses 180,000. You pay out $100,000 to the visitors and net $80,000. Playing home and home, you get the entire gross -- and a guaranteed great crowd -- and when you travel you pay for busfare. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

[Yote 53]

I was completely in the boat of doing the 6 home game thing with an FBS away game and 2 guarantee games vs. weak opponents.

Then I realized that our guys can get just as hurt playing weak teams on that Fargodome turf as they can playing good teams. Couple that with SDSU's success last year and their annual, brutal schedules, and I'm re-thinking my position.

Now I think I'm in the boat where I would still like to see the FBS away game every year (vs a regional Big Ten or Big XII team), but then I think NDSU should have 5 home games with two, alternating home/homes vs. quality FCS teams.

But then again, as long as NDSU is doing fairly well, any home game should draw at least 18k. That may be too good of money to pass up.

I read this phrase all the time over on the Jackrabbit board, "schedule quality FCS teams". XDSU fans like to throw that phrase around but what they are really doing is trying to put down the U's. They always say "quality FCS programs" and then go on to list the reasons why they can't play the U's. Basically, they are saying our programs suck. Well, I guess USD doesn't suck anymore because the Bison have scheduled a home and home with a "quality FCS team". Maybe not, however, since SDSU still won't schedule USD. So is NDSU saying UND isn't a "quality FCS program"? That would just be dumb.

[Bison Dan]

I read this phrase all the time over on the Jackrabbit board, "schedule quality FCS teams". XDSU fans like to throw that phrase around but what they are really doing is trying to put down the U's. They always say "quality FCS programs" and then go on to list the reasons why they can't play the U's. Basically, they are saying our programs suck. Well, I guess USD doesn't suck anymore because the Bison have scheduled a home and home with a "quality FCS team". Maybe not, however, since SDSU still won't schedule USD. So is NDSU saying UND isn't a "quality FCS program"? That would just be dumb.

NDSU is just saying they would like to get 6 home games every year. (perfect world) Gene is just doing what he thinks is best for the athletic dept money wise. If we lock into a series with UND every year it would prevent that. I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the contract we have with USD was proposed to UND first. Hard to get a contract done when the one party dealing from a lessor position wants to call the shots. Football pays our bills like hockey does yours so don't compare the two programs with the same goals (as far as scheduling). Shawn-O posted last fall that one UND FB game only drew 4,200 (NAIA game I think) Can you imagine what would happen if we only had 4,200 at a FB game or hockey only drew 4,200?

[homer]

NDSU is just saying they would like to get 6 home games every year. (perfect world) Gene is just doing what he thinks is best for the athletic dept money wise. If we lock into a series with UND every year it would prevent that. I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the contract we have with USD was proposed to UND first. Hard to get a contract done when the one party dealing from a lessor position wants to call the shots. Football pays our bills like hockey does yours so don't compare the two programs with the same goals (as far as scheduling). Shawn-O posted last fall that one UND FB game only drew 4,200 (NAIA game I think) Can you imagine what would happen if we only had 4,200 at a FB game or hockey only drew 4,200?

What exactly makes you feel that UND is in a lessor position? Also, what is so bad about only having five home games every other year? Your still looking for that 6th one now and trying to fill the schedule for next year so obviously teams are lining up to play in Fargo. I'm sure Gene is just looking at a teams resume trying to find out which school is best fit for NDSU and its athletic dept. The closer it gets to the start of the season the more that payout is going to be to get that team to come to Fargo. Face it Dan, Gene is trying to play a hand that isn't really there. If NDSU had six games every year it would be one thing but they rarely do. One side is trying to call the shots and its not Faison or UND.

[sultan]

Over the years Gene Taylor has given so many phoney baloney reasons why they can't resume the rivalry it is just comical. He has been all over the board. I think we should just let NDSU go away and hide with their 3 and 8 record. This game should mean just as much to BOTH schools and the state of North Dakota. Taylor just doesn't get it. Taylor and NDSU will just continue to look like the fools on this matter. Resuming the rivalry isn't just about NDSU and what works for them. Is is what works best for both schools and the state of North Dakota. Everyone might need to bend a little to make it work . NDSU just doesn't see the big picture.

[MplsBison]

I read this phrase all the time over on the Jackrabbit board, "schedule quality FCS teams". XDSU fans like to throw that phrase around but what they are really doing is trying to put down the U's. They always say "quality FCS programs" and then go on to list the reasons why they can't play the U's. Basically, they are saying our programs suck. Well, I guess USD doesn't suck anymore because the Bison have scheduled a home and home with a "quality FCS team". Maybe not, however, since SDSU still won't schedule USD. So is NDSU saying UND isn't a "quality FCS program"? That would just be dumb.

I know both UND and USD will be quality FCS programs, probably top 50 (if not top 25) attendance, budget and wins.

[johnson]

Again, when does NDSU get six home games? Just once in the last five years, and then with Central Conneticut and Austin Peay. Don't think that argument holds much water. I've never checked the math, but I've also never understood the argument that NDSU would be better off with six home games (again, assuming you could get them) than regular home-and-home v UND. Assuming you get an OOC opponent that can draw 18,000 and assuming the average ticket (factoring in students) is what, $10, that grosses 180,000. You pay out $100,000 to the visitors and net $80,000. Playing home and home, you get the entire gross -- and a guaranteed great crowd -- and when you travel you pay for busfare. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

The home games started to sell out consistantly later in the transition and NDSU already had Home/Home contracts with SHSU and Georgia Southern. Gene stated later in the transition that they could now make more money bringing in a 6th game rather than travelling to another FCS school. Georgia Southern was supposed to come to Fargo a couple of years ago but pushed the original date back further and NDSU traveled to SHSU last year to honor that home/home. Montana State bought out of their contract with NDSU recently which left Gene scrambling for another game. I believe GS is finally coming in 2011 and Montana State in 2013. Gene has changed the way he schedules since.

Single game reserved tickets were going for $25 a piece and $15 for general admission last year. On top of that season ticket sales are over 9,400 right now. Those prices range from $100 a piece behind the endzones to $130 a piece on the sidelines with Team Maker donations required between the 10's that range from $75 to $500. Factor in merchandise sales and concessions sales and that amount adds up quick. I have a friend who teaches at a high school in my area and has taken over concessions for games. They can make up to $1,000 in sales an hour when they are busy and that is just two windows serving customers for a HS game.

Gene only has to find 2 more games to have complete schedules for 2010 and 2011 that includes 6 home games. He isn't going to change how his is doing things now just to schedule UND again.

[MplsBison]

The home games started to sell out consistantly later in the transition and NDSU already had Home/Home contracts with SHSU and Georgia Southern. Gene stated later in the transition that they could now make more money bringing in a 6th game rather than travelling to another FCS school. Georgia Southern was supposed to come to Fargo a couple of years ago but pushed the original date back further and NDSU traveled to SHSU last year to honor that home/home. Montana State bought out of their contract with NDSU recently which left Gene scrambling for another game. I believe GS is finally coming in 2011 and Montana State in 2013. Gene has changed the way he schedules since.

Single game reserved tickets were going for $25 a piece and $15 for general admission last year. On top of that season ticket sales are over 9,400 right now. Those prices range from $100 a piece behind the endzones to $130 a piece on the sidelines with Team Maker donations required between the 10's that range from $75 to $500. Factor in merchandise sales and concessions sales and that amount adds up quick. I have a friend who teaches at a high school in my area and has taken over concessions for games. They can make up to $1,000 in sales an hour when they are busy and that is just two windows serving customers for a HS game.

Gene only has to find 2 more games to have complete schedules for 2010 and 2011 that includes 6 home games. He isn't going to change how his is doing things now just to schedule UND again.

I don't think Montana State ever bought out...just had to postpone quite a while. They'll be in Fargo 2013.

[johnson]

I don't think Montana State ever bought out...just had to postpone quite a while. They'll be in Fargo 2013.

I remember Gene saying that he has increased the buy out amounts on the contracts after Montana State payed the sum which was way too low. $25,000 is sticking in my head for some reason.

[star2city]

The home games started to sell out consistantly later in the transition and NDSU already had Home/Home contracts with SHSU and Georgia Southern. Gene stated later in the transition that they could now make more money bringing in a 6th game rather than travelling to another FCS school. Georgia Southern was supposed to come to Fargo a couple of years ago but pushed the original date back further and NDSU traveled to SHSU last year to honor that home/home. Montana State bought out of their contract with NDSU recently which left Gene scrambling for another game. I believe GS is finally coming in 2011 and Montana State in 2013. Gene has changed the way he schedules since.

Single game reserved tickets were going for $25 a piece and $15 for general admission last year. On top of that season ticket sales are over 9,400 right now. Those prices range from $100 a piece behind the endzones to $130 a piece on the sidelines with Team Maker donations required between the 10's that range from $75 to $500. Factor in merchandise sales and concessions sales and that amount adds up quick. I have a friend who teaches at a high school in my area and has taken over concessions for games. They can make up to $1,000 in sales an hour when they are busy and that is just two windows serving customers for a HS game.

Gene only has to find 2 more games to have complete schedules for 2010 and 2011 that includes 6 home games. He isn't going to change how his is doing things now just to schedule UND again.

That may all be true, but NDSU is selling season tickets at the same price for a five vs six home game season. A six game season makes more sense if there is a higher price for it.

If UND played at the FargoDome, NDSU could likely sell single game tickets for $50, season tickets for $200, and have record season ticket sales. Financially, it makes sense for NDSU to play UND every other year, even if it means sacrificing a six-game home season because a UND game would have much more profitable than any game NDSU has yet to host at the DI level - with the possible exception of when they host Montana (in like six or seven years).

[Ole in MSP]

That may all be true, but NDSU is selling season tickets at the same price for a five vs six home game season. A six game season makes more sense if there is a higher price for it.

If UND played at the FargoDome, NDSU could likely sell single game tickets for $50, season tickets for $200, and have record season ticket sales. Financially, it makes sense for NDSU to play UND every other year, even if it means sacrificing a six-game home season because a UND game would have much more profitable than any game NDSU has yet to host at the DI level - with the possible exception of when they host Montana (in like six or seven years).

Not only would NDSU profit, but a lot of local businesses would have far more traffic from Sioux fans coming in than any distant or even close FCS school. Same applies in GF. Cannot understand why the local businesses, hotels, restaurants, and bars would not start making some noise to renew this on a regular basis alternating sites. I guess the economies in Fgo and Gf are already so strong they do not need any more business. If I owned a bar or restaurant up there I would be campaigning for the games to be played just to help both cities economy.

[johnson]

That may all be true, but NDSU is selling season tickets at the same price for a five vs six home game season. A six game season makes more sense if there is a higher price for it.

If UND played at the FargoDome, NDSU could likely sell single game tickets for $50, season tickets for $200, and have record season ticket sales. Financially, it makes sense for NDSU to play UND every other year, even if it means sacrificing a six-game home season because a UND game would have much more profitable than any game NDSU has yet to host at the DI level - with the possible exception of when they host Montana (in like six or seven years).

The discussion for the UND game has been to sell that one game at double the normal single game ticket price. The single game tickets have been increasing by about $5 a year for the past few years and I wouldn't be surprised if that continues if the team can start producing again. I don't think NDSU could go out and ask those kind of prices that quickly for all games. Season Ticket prices have been gradually increasing every year too. You risk the chance of losing season ticket holders because of raising prices too quickly so I believe there won't be a drastic increase in price if UND does come to Fargo.

With season ticket sales nearing 10,000 and 4,000 being reserved for students it doesn't leave much room for others. Local watering holes would definately appreaciate the game again that is for sure. I think this will all eventually work itself out but it is going to take some major negotiating to get all sides to agree to play again.