darell1976 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Good debate. While I understand the hesitancy to shell out 100-150K to bring in a lower level FCS team in favor of a regional opponent that will cost less and draw the same-size crowd, I don't understand why we can't play South Dakota, which would be a D-I game against a regional opponent and draw a good crowd (in GF or Vermillion). They were on the schedule for 2012 before we were invited to the MVFC and Big Sky. One of us had to drop that game. Who and why? Maybe since both teams moved into different divisions it voided the schedule automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risky Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I would imagine since UND and USD are going into different conferences both schools are trying very hard ro secure home games so it probably just isn't going to work. That's to bad but it is just the reality of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Maybe its because we are nothing in D1 yet. We are in limbo for the playoffs. A win in non-conference means nothing. 2012 is to be our year. The year of the Big Sky. The year we can make a run to the playoffs. Transition is crap. If the NCAA didn't have a 5 year ban on playoffs people would show up, I know it sounds bad but would you show up for just preseason NFL games or wait until the game means something. Well thats what we have done, 5 years of preseason. The only thing we can win is a GWFC title which I hope we can win this year. Whats the point of getting Austin Peay....PLAYOFFS!!!!!! Whats the point of getting SD Mines.....NOTHING!!! In D2 we played Northern Iowa, first year of transition we played Southern Illinois both on the road...what they can't come here?? While I would love it to be in a position to pay a Stony Brook, Austin Peay, or Morgan St. to come to the Alerus every year in an effort to enhance our chances at receiving an at-large berth to the playoffs, there are also financial responsibilities to consider that the University must balance with putting the program in the best position to make the playoffs............ People like to point to NDSU not playing any DII's in recent years and assume that North Dakota should be in the same position..............but they're just not the same. I know I'm over-simplifying things but using $15 as a base ticket price, NDSU grosses around $240,000 for a home game just from the gate using last year's attendance average of about 16,000. If they paid Morgan St $150K, that still leaves them with $90,000 to pay the rest of the costs of putting on a sporting event. If North Dakota charges $15 a ticket, and 9,000 fans (give or take) show up like in the last few years, that's a gross of $135,000. Now, we paid Stony Brook $130,000 two seasons ago to come to Grand Forks, so that left UND's A.D. $5,000 with which to pay, among other things, the $20,000 bill for renting the Alerus Center for that day...................... We can argue until we're blue in the face that we should just fork over the cash to get better quality opponents because it would be an "investment" in the program. But you can't just print money either................. As long as the low level DI programs are commanding $100,000-150,000 for a one game deal, it is far more likely that UND will be forced, not choose, to continue to bring in at least one non-DI opponent each season for half of what a crappy MEAC, Big South, or NEC team would require................if we want that to change, then the Alerus needs to start filling up! Just another 3,000 fans on Saturdays would give the athletic department another $50,000 to work with. As far as USD not being on the schedule in 2012 any more, my guess is that both the Big Sky and the MVFC have set their schedules, and either one or both UND and/or USD had a league game imposed on the date the UND-USD game was originally planned, and both schools didn't have a non-conference date that would match up..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risky Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Would it not have been our turn to go to Vermillion anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 While I would love it to be in a position to pay a Stony Brook, Austin Peay, or Morgan St. to come to the Alerus every year in an effort to enhance our chances at receiving an at-large berth to the playoffs, there are also financial responsibilities to consider that the University must balance with putting the program in the best position to make the playoffs............ People like to point to NDSU not playing any DII's in recent years and assume that North Dakota should be in the same position..............but they're just not the same. I know I'm over-simplifying things but using $15 as a base ticket price, NDSU grosses around $240,000 for a home game just from the gate using last year's attendance average of about 16,000. If they paid Morgan St $150K, that still leaves them with $90,000 to pay the rest of the costs of putting on a sporting event. If North Dakota charges $15 a ticket, and 9,000 fans (give or take) show up like in the last few years, that's a gross of $135,000. Now, we paid Stony Brook $130,000 two seasons ago to come to Grand Forks, so that left UND's A.D. $5,000 with which to pay, among other things, the $20,000 bill for renting the Alerus Center for that day...................... We can argue until we're blue in the face that we should just fork over the cash to get better quality opponents because it would be an "investment" in the program. But you can't just print money either................. As long as the low level DI programs are commanding $100,000-150,000 for a one game deal, it is far more likely that UND will be forced, not choose, to continue to bring in at least one non-DI opponent each season for half of what a crappy MEAC, Big South, or NEC team would require................if we want that to change, then the Alerus needs to start filling up! Just another 3,000 fans on Saturdays would give the athletic department another $50,000 to work with. As far as USD not being on the schedule in 2012 any more, my guess is that both the Big Sky and the MVFC have set their schedules, and either one or both UND and/or USD had a league game imposed on the date the UND-USD game was originally planned, and both schools didn't have a non-conference date that would match up..................... Last time I check there are no playoffs the last few years. What was our average attendance in the last few years of D2, then talk money. Don't take our attendance during transition because of course attendance will be down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 <snip> We can argue until we're blue in the face that we should just fork over the cash to get better quality opponents because it would be an "investment" in the program. But you can't just print money either................. <snip> Tell that to Brandon Bochenski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Its not 100-150k --- It is 150k minimum. I can see what Faison is doing in that they can pay Mines 60-70k to bus here and get dang near the same attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Last time I check there are no playoffs the last few years. What was our average attendance in the last few years of D2, then talk money. Don't take our attendance during transition because of course attendance will be down. Attendance was roughly the same the last few years of DII. I believe our all time attendance record was set in 2007, the last year of DII, a little over 10,000 per game. I believe UND is the only former NCC school to move up this past decade that didn't experience attendance growth. The transition itself hasn't affected attendance as much as poor play and fickle fans.................... EDIT: The attendance record was set in 2008, the first year of DI, with an average of 10,167. 2006: 8,827 2007: 9,887 2008: 10,167 2009: 8,539 2010: 8,154 2011: ? ? ? ? IMO attendance will get a moderate increase this season, because the team should be better and with all the cream puffs on the schedule the fans should be able to feast on some of the good old fashioned blowouts that they became accustomed to in DII................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 While I would love it to be in a position to pay a Stony Brook, Austin Peay, or Morgan St. to come to the Alerus every year in an effort to enhance our chances at receiving an at-large berth to the playoffs, there are also financial responsibilities to consider that the University must balance with putting the program in the best position to make the playoffs............ People like to point to NDSU not playing any DII's in recent years and assume that North Dakota should be in the same position..............but they're just not the same. I know I'm over-simplifying things but using $15 as a base ticket price, NDSU grosses around $240,000 for a home game just from the gate using last year's attendance average of about 16,000. If they paid Morgan St $150K, that still leaves them with $90,000 to pay the rest of the costs of putting on a sporting event. If North Dakota charges $15 a ticket, and 9,000 fans (give or take) show up like in the last few years, that's a gross of $135,000. Now, we paid Stony Brook $130,000 two seasons ago to come to Grand Forks, so that left UND's A.D. $5,000 with which to pay, among other things, the $20,000 bill for renting the Alerus Center for that day...................... We can argue until we're blue in the face that we should just fork over the cash to get better quality opponents because it would be an "investment" in the program. But you can't just print money either................. As long as the low level DI programs are commanding $100,000-150,000 for a one game deal, it is far more likely that UND will be forced, not choose, to continue to bring in at least one non-DI opponent each season for half of what a crappy MEAC, Big South, or NEC team would require................if we want that to change, then the Alerus needs to start filling up! Just another 3,000 fans on Saturdays would give the athletic department another $50,000 to work with. As far as USD not being on the schedule in 2012 any more, my guess is that both the Big Sky and the MVFC have set their schedules, and either one or both UND and/or USD had a league game imposed on the date the UND-USD game was originally planned, and both schools didn't have a non-conference date that would match up..................... Very valid point. I think we are just going to have to suck it up on who we play at home for that last nonconference game until we put more people in the stands and make the financial situation for football better. Let's just get out to the Alerus and support them and scheduling will get better in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Attendance was roughly the same the last few years of DII. I believe our all time attendance record was set in 2007, the last year of DII, a little over 10,000 per game. I believe UND is the only former NCC school to move up this past decade that didn't experience attendance growth. The transition itself hasn't affected attendance as much as poor play and fickle fans.................... Would it be the fact that the teams they bring to the Alerus aren't that great. Just how many D1 teams have come to the Alerus that is NOT in the GWFC? I know Stony Brook and Northwestern St. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Would it be the fact that the teams they bring to the Alerus aren't that great. Just how many D1 teams have come to the Alerus that is NOT in the GWFC? I know Stony Brook and Northwestern St. Lamar is the only other non-conference DI............. Again, it goes back to the fact that there is not enough money to pay for alot of high quality nonconference opponents...............the money isn't there and the numbers just don't work. I recently paid $1,300 for a TV. The one I really wanted was priced at $4,000. But I only had $1,300 to spend, so that was the one I got. Look for UND's non-conference schedule going forward to be something along the lines of: Year A: FBS away game, FCS home game, DII home game Year B: FBS away game, FCS away game (return trip for prior season), DII home game Year C: FBS away game, FCS home game, DII home game Year D: FBS away game, FCS away game (return trip for prior season), DII home game And so on..................... Until the Alerus is consistently sold out, UND is going to have to be one of those teams that does home-and-home scheduling with other FCS programs in order to get FCS programs to come here. That's how we got Northwestern ST, Central Akansas, SDSU, and Montana to agree to come here................. If you don't want to continue to see schools like SD Mines on future schedules, then you better go buy your tickets for Black Hills St, Montana Western, and Sioux Falls............because ironically, the only way those type of games are going to go away is by packing the house for them.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShilohSioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Attendance was roughly the same the last few years of DII. I believe our all time attendance record was set in 2007, the last year of DII, a little over 10,000 per game. I believe UND is the only former NCC school to move up this past decade that didn't experience attendance growth. The transition itself hasn't affected attendance as much as poor play and fickle fans.................... EDIT: The attendance record was set in 2008, the first year of DI, with an average of 10,167. 2006: 8,827 2007: 9,887 2008: 10,167 2009: 8,539 2010: 8,154 2011: ? ? ? ? IMO attendance will get a moderate increase this season, because the team should be better and with all the cream puffs on the schedule the fans should be able to feast on some of the good old fashioned blowouts that they became accustomed to in DII................... FOOTBALL Attendance: North Dakota 1999 – 7,813 2002 – 9,488 2003 – 9,033 2004 – 9,389 2005 – 9,425 2006 – 8,827 2007 – 9,887 2008 – 10,167 2009 – 8,539 2010 – 8,154 North Dakota State 1999 – 11,410 2000 – 12,723 2002 – 10,620 2003 – 11,567 2004 – 13,269 2005 – 14,160 2006 – 16,377 2007 – 18,141 2008 – 18,032 2009 – 16,515 2010 – 15,944 South Dakota State 1999 – 6,139 2003 – 5,547 2005 – 6,934 (plus 7,239 for game in Sioux Falls) 2006 – 9,652 2007 – 11,218 2008 – 9,907 2009 – 13,265 2010 – 10,023 South Dakota 1999 – 4,408 2003 – 4,341 2005 – 7,597 2006 – 8,054 2007 – 8,321 2008 – 7,645 2009 – 8,117 2010 – 8,352 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sultan Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 FOOTBALL Attendance: North Dakota 1999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yote 53 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 As a fan would you be happy with 5 home games a year? Year A: 8 BSC (4 home/4 away), USD (home), away at FCS (part of home and home), FBS (away) Year B: 8 BSC (4 home/4 away), USD (away), FCS (home), FBS (away) Repeat Cycle The USD game, FBS game, and home/home FCS game would need to take place the first 3 weeks of the season then move into the conference schedule. The reality is that if you want an FBS game it is going to be on the road and if you want an FBS game and 6 home games then that sixth home game is going to be against subpar competition. I would be happy to forego the sixth game and go with the above arrangement for USD (8 MVFC games, UND, FCS, FBS) if that means we get to keep the Sioux on the schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Look's like NDSU's attendance has been going down every year for 4 years too. I guess we all have our concerns. It's hard to stomach that UND football has the lowest attendence of the 4 Dakota Schools. The program needs a shot in the arm and scheduling a solid Non Conference home game can do that. Hence, USD hosting Eastern Washington or UND Men's Basketball renewing the NDSU rivalry. I predict another small drop in attendence this season for UND football...invest in the program, Fasion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 It's hard to stomach that UND football has the lowest attendence of the 4 Dakota Schools. The program needs a shot in the arm and scheduling a solid Non Conference home game can do that. Hence, USD hosting Eastern Washington or UND Men's Basketball renewing the NDSU rivalry. I predict another small drop in attendence this season for UND football...invest in the program, Fasion! With 3 D2 teams I predict a big drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You have to have 7 DI wins to qualify for playoffs. It's foolish to schedule DII teams that don't count when you are playoff eligible. Montana played Western State and didn't get the 7 wins last year and it cost them. In the past the Griz could usually get away with playing a DII team because they consistently won the conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 its kind of hard to invest in a program with no money to invest. Obvisouly with lower attendances mean they arent getting the money they use to get. More people come=more money=more money to invest in the program. Im sure any money they have now is being used to upgrade Staff, Facilities, equipment etc etc to get it up to par with other FCS schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDvince97-01 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Again, it goes back to the fact that there is not enough money to pay for alot of high quality nonconference opponents...............the money isn't there and the numbers just don't work. I recently paid $1,300 for a TV. The one I really wanted was priced at $4,000. But I only had $1,300 to spend, so that was the one I got. What?!??! Now don't you go bringing up fiscal responsibility. That just makes zero sense. Until the Alerus is consistently sold out, UND is going to have to be one of those teams that does home-and-home scheduling with other FCS programs in order to get FCS programs to come here. That's how we got Northwestern ST, Central Akansas, SDSU, and Montana to agree to come here................. If you don't want to continue to see schools like SD Mines on future schedules, then you better go buy your tickets for Black Hills St, Montana Western, and Sioux Falls............because ironically, the only way those type of games are going to go away is by packing the house for them.................... Agreed again - it goes back to people who complain up and down about the schedule and then don't go to the games to support the very cause they are passionate about. Go to the games.....that would give you a MUCH bigger reason to complain. Show your displeasure with the product you just paid money to see. Again, let me reiterate, I don't like these D2 schools on the schedule either and I seriously wish we could bring in better opponents right now, but we are simply getting what we can afford. I'm not asking ANYONE to like the D2 games. Go the games, fill the Alerus, and our athletic department's ability to schedule FCS teams will increase in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 its kind of hard to invest in a program with no money to invest. Obvisouly with lower attendances mean they arent getting the money they use to get. More people come=more money=more money to invest in the program. Im sure any money they have now is being used to upgrade Staff, Facilities, equipment etc etc to get it up to par with other FCS schools. With no quality product on the field no one will show up. Our 3-8 record last doesn't help things and a crappy D2 schedule is even worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I understand the economics involved. What I don't understand is why we have to continuously schedule NAIA-transitioning to Division II teams if we are going to play down. Although I don't like the idea of having to play down, is it really that much more expensive or difficult to try to get an Augustana, UMD, St. Cloud, Mankato, etc to come and play here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 In 2013, the situation may be entirely different, as South Dakota State and Montana both have scheduled return dates. The key question is if Montana will still honor the return date as a non-conference game. Since UND and Montana are not designated as rivals, the Big Sky schedule could be arranged to allow for a Montana non-conference game at the Alerus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS4127 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 This from starzy2: Let's hope SD Mines has to cancel this game. There's still a chance that SD Mines will be invited to the RMAC (DII league in Colorado) later in May. The RMAC has offered Eastern New Mexico, Colorado College, and Black Hills State, with a plan to go to two divisions. SD Mines was dished by the RMAC, so is desperate for scheduling. What exactly are you saying, that SDSM was so desperate it had to schedule UND??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I understand the economics involved. What I don't understand is why we have to continuously schedule NAIA-transitioning to Division II teams if we are going to play down. Although I don't like the idea of having to play down, is it really that much more expensive or difficult to try to get an Augustana, UMD, St. Cloud, Mankato, etc to come and play here? I would guess because those schools are in the same boat as us..............looking for games, and are flexible with the dates they are available. As far as the NSIC teams you mentioned, I believe they only get one non-conference game per year these days, so they are extremely limited as to available dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 This from starzy2: What exactly are you saying, that SDSM was so desperate it had to schedule UND??!! They're like any school in transition..................they need games.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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