is it time to change the GFC-RR district boundary line?

[roper1313]

I think you guys have gotten a little off the subject.

Not the first time it's happend on this board.

I'm sure I could tie this into the original topic if you really want me to.

[GF_siouxfan]

Lines dont matter unless your in middle school even than kids go whr thr friends are

[GF_siouxfan]

Normally your friends play the same sport you do

[UND92,96]

It sounds like school boundaries are once again being discussed: http://www.grandfork...icle/id/227388/

My wife attended this forum, and brought up the idea of shifting the GFC-RR boundary to more east-west rather than north-south, but while many seemed receptive to this, in the end it sounds like "tradition" will prevail, and little will actually change.

My question is this: how much different is the boundary now compared to when RR first opened? The reason I ask is that it seems like virtually all of the new homes built in GF in the past 40-plus years have been in the RR district. If true, this is problematic IMO for a variety of reasons. Besides Congressional, which mostly just replaced the homes lost in the Lincoln Park/Central Park/Riverside Park areas, what other development has there really been in the GFC district since the early 1970's, at least within the city limits?

I feel like it's in the best interests of the community if the boundary is re-worked so that both districts contain a better cross-section of the city. At present, RR has that. But I don't believe GFC necessarily does.

[The Sicatoka]

Grand Forks is probably running into what happened in Fargo:

The high schools were in the right spots until all the growth only happened on one end of the city (in each case the south side).

[GeauxSioux]

It sounds like school boundaries are once again being discussed: http://www.grandfork...icle/id/227388/

My wife attended this forum, and brought up the idea of shifting the GFC-RR boundary to more east-west rather than north-south, but while many seemed receptive to this, in the end it sounds like "tradition" will prevail, and little will actually change.

My question is this: how much different is the boundary now compared to when RR first opened? The reason I ask is that it seems like virtually all of the new homes built in GF in the past 40-plus years have been in the RR district. If true, this is problematic IMO for a variety of reasons. Besides Congressional, which mostly just replaced the homes lost in the Lincoln Park/Central Park/Riverside Park areas, what other development has there really been in the GFC district since the early 1970's, at least within the city limits?

I feel like it's in the best interests of the community if the boundary is re-worked so that both districts contain a better cross-section of the city. At present, RR has that. But I don't believe GFC necessarily does.

Showing my age, when I started high school back in the fall of 1977 I was just on the south side (RRHS) of the dividing line. I lived a block south of Lewis and Clark Elementary. I believe RR was about 10 years old at that time.

It was kind of funny reading the Herald article where it says kids from Schroeder split on which high school they attend. Back in my day, it was South that split between Central and Red River.

[UND92,96]

Showing my age, when I started high school back in the fall of 1977 I was just on the south side (RRHS) of the dividing line. I lived a block south of Lewis and Clark Elementary. I believe RR was about 10 years old at that time.

It was kind of funny reading the Herald article where it says kids from Schroeder split on which high school they attend. Back in my day, it was South that split between Central and Red River.

So I'm assuming at that point the boundary for residences east of Washington must have been 13th Avenue South. I believe it changed to 17th Avenue South fairly shortly thereafter, which is where it still is today.

It's interesting to compare what was considered "south end" back then compared to today.

[watchmaker49]

Showing my age, when I started high school back in the fall of 1977 I was just on the south side (RRHS) of the dividing line. I lived a block south of Lewis and Clark Elementary. I believe RR was about 10 years old at that time.

It was kind of funny reading the Herald article where it says kids from Schroeder split on which high school they attend. Back in my day, it was South that split between Central and Red River.

There were alot of people who lived north of 13th that went to Red River also.

[Cratter]

Central will always be disadvantaged because its two blocks from a state border.

How long before Grand Forks has to build a new south end high school?

[UND92,96]

With the school year now over and Red River having experienced another very good year in athletics while Central mostly struggled again, I wanted to revisit this topic. I can't help but compare Grand Forks to Bismarck--similar size, two public high schools with one quite old and one far less so, etc., but whereas in GF the "new" school has come to completely dominate the old school virtually across the board in athletics, in Bismarck the old school seems to generally be the dominant one. So my question is: why is the situation in Bismarck so different? For one thing, I'm guessing that unlike in GF, Bismarck's boundary lines aren't drawn in such a way that 90% of the new construction over the past 30 years has occurred in the "new" school's district.

[watchmaker49]

How about simply you have to play in the district you live in only? No switching schools to play sports allowed at all.

[UND92,96]

How about simply you have to play in the district you live in only? No switching schools to play sports allowed at all.

I might be in favor of that if the boundaries were changed to something more equitable, i.e. everybody east of Washington goes to Central and everybody west of Washington goes to Red River (I realize that would probably have to be tweaked somewhat to roughly equalize enrollments). But simply doing away with open enrollment without doing anything to the boundaries would not do much to equalize things. Actually, Central would probably have been worse off over the years, as it has probably benefitted from it more than RR, at least in hockey, i.e. the Lamoureux's, Jake Marto, Luke Johnson, etc.

[yzerman19]

I think you are generalizing South Fargo a little too much. There are a lot of parents and students who really like the idea that kids in fargo are going to have a lot more of an opportunity to participate in activities with Fargo South going from a mega HS to a "normal" sized large school. There are quite a few parents who send their kids to Shanley, Oak Grove, or Park Christian just so thier kids can have more opportunities to participate in school activities. Also if you take a look at class sizes at south a majority of them are at or close to the 28 limit. As a tax payer in Fargo, a parent of elementary aged kids and a husband of a teacher I think the new HS is a great idea.

To address your statement that Davies will have majority of higher incomes. Obviously you don't have kids at the elementary schools in that area. I'll give you Centenial that's definitly higher income, but take a look at Bennett and Kennedy. Both of those schools have some of the highest levels of assisted lunches in the district.

I guess I'm in the minority in Fargo that thinks if the school district has managed their funds appropiately and therefore has built up a large excess fund then they should be able to do what they want with the money. IMO, its better to build a school with cash on hand then having to float bonds.

I guess we'll know how this all turns out in fargo in 10-20 years.

I say borrow as much as you can with interest rates where they are! I'm not tracking the muni market closely, but with tax-exempt bonds, I'm guessing short term rates of less than 1% and longer term maybe out to 3%?? I'll borrow at a duration of 1.5% every day and twice on Sunday.

[SiouxVolley]

With the school year now over and Red River having experienced another very good year in athletics while Central mostly struggled again, I wanted to revisit this topic. I can't help but compare Grand Forks to Bismarck--similar size, two public high schools with one quite old and one far less so, etc., but whereas in GF the "new" school has come to completely dominate the old school virtually across the board in athletics, in Bismarck the old school seems to generally be the dominant one. So my question is: why is the situation in Bismarck so different? For one thing, I'm guessing that unlike in GF, Bismarck's boundary lines aren't drawn in such a way that 90% of the new construction over the past 30 years has occurred in the "new" school's district.

Bismarck Century was purposely kept at about 3/4ths of Bismarck's size, which harmed Century's football as it didn't have as much depth. Bismarck High also had access to growth areas to the east and south, as well as the town of Lincoln. .

The new Bismarck Legacy High School will draw from the high growth area to the east, so the athletic situation in the near future may switch to Legacy and Century being the power schools.

Bismarck Century will remain a north end (with growth) school.

The drop in Air Force Base population has really hurt GFC athletics in basketball and track. Used to be that all AFB kids went to RR, then with the continued growth of the south end the AFB kids were switched to GFC to compensate. The biggest problem for GFC is where the GF industrial park was located, which should have been a commercial area. That hemmed in GFC's enrollment growth west and forced practically all residential to be built much further south.

It would be very difficult politically to get the J Nelson Kelley elementary school boundary redrawn into GFC's area: it's about the same age as Red River. Other "south end" schools like Lewis & Clark and Roosevelt that were moved into the GFC boundary were formerly GFC feeder areas before RR opened.

[fightingsioux4life]

Bismarck Century was purposely kept at about 3/4ths of Bismarck's size, which harmed Century's football as it didn't have as much depth. Bismarck High also had access to growth areas to the east and south, as well as the town of Lincoln. .

The new Bismarck Legacy High School will draw from the high growth area to the east, so the athletic situation in the near future may switch to Legacy and Century being the power schools.

Bismarck Century will remain a north end (with growth) school.

The drop in Air Force Base population has really hurt GFC athletics in basketball and track. Used to be that all AFB kids went to RR, then with the continued growth of the south end the AFB kids were switched to GFC to compensate. The biggest problem for GFC is where the GF industrial park was located, which should have been a commercial area. That hemmed in GFC's enrollment growth west and forced practically all residential to be built much further south.

It would be very difficult politically to get the J Nelson Kelley elementary school boundary redrawn into GFC's area: it's about the same age as Red River. Other "south end" schools like Lewis & Clark and Roosevelt that were moved into the GFC boundary were formerly GFC feeder areas before RR opened.

It will be much more difficult to cram more and more kids into GFRR as the south end continues to grow. But I guess keeping the GFRR athletic parents happy is much more important, right? That is the REAL reason this nonsense is allowed to continue.

[UND92,96]

It would be very difficult politically to get the J Nelson Kelley elementary school boundary redrawn into GFC's area: it's about the same age as Red River. Other "south end" schools like Lewis & Clark and Roosevelt that were moved into the GFC boundary were formerly GFC feeder areas before RR opened.

There is going to be a lot more new home construction in Grand Forks in the next few years, and barring a big shift in the boundaries it will only make the disparity between the two high schools even more glaring. You can't continue to have the two mega-elementary schools in town (soon three) completely in the RR district, as that is a big part of the problem.

My kids go to Kelly. I completely understand that it wouldn't necessarily be popular at first to switch from a north-Central/south-RR split to an east-Central/west-RR split, but I don't see how else you can effect significant change. I'm sure the plan now is to simply shift the boundary a few blocks south in an attempt to compensate for all the new construction in the south end. As we've seen over the past few decades, that just doesn't work if fairness is the goal.

The big unknown to me is whether the large disparity in extra-curricular achievement is also seen in academic achievement. I suppose people can make the argument that if it's only sports where one sees a big achievement gap, it's not enough of a reason to make a radical change. But if a similar disparity is seen in test scores, college attendance, etc., that makes for a far more compelling argument, and "tradition" as a reason to keep the status quo no longer carries much weight.

[siouxperseven]

There is going to be a lot more new home construction in Grand Forks in the next few years, and barring a big shift in the boundaries it will only make the disparity between the two high schools even more glaring. You can't continue to have the two mega-elementary schools in town (soon three) completely in the RR district, as that is a big part of the problem.

My kids go to Kelly. I completely understand that it wouldn't necessarily be popular at first to switch from a north-Central/south-RR split to an east-Central/west-RR split, but I don't see how else you can effect significant change. I'm sure the plan now is to simply shift the boundary a few blocks south in an attempt to compensate for all the new construction in the south end. As we've seen over the past few decades, that just doesn't work if fairness is the goal.

The big unknown to me is whether the large disparity in extra-curricular achievement is also seen in academic achievement. I suppose people can make the argument that if it's only sports where one sees a big achievement gap, it's not enough of a reason to make a radical change. But if a similar disparity is seen in test scores, college attendance, etc., that makes for a far more compelling argument, and "tradition" as a reason to keep the status quo no longer carries much weight.

True to form GF will do nothing. Unlike Fargo...GF can not make the hard decisions. Look at the $500,000 study on the elementary schools an then leave that the same. As much as I dislike Fargo I admire that they make the hard decision and let it be. GF is to worried about the neighbors and if they'll be re-elected to the board. RR will continue to dominate this town. In the next few years Central will make it interesting though but as this person said....they growth is going south and into RR district. GF should make boundries but won't because the mucky mucks want it left status quo.

[SiouxVolley]

True to form GF will do nothing. Unlike Fargo...GF can not make the hard decisions. Look at the $500,000 study on the elementary schools an then leave that the same. As much as I dislike Fargo I admire that they make the hard decision and let it be. GF is to worried about the neighbors and if they'll be re-elected to the board. RR will continue to dominate this town. In the next few years Central will make it interesting though but as this person said....they growth is going south and into RR district. GF should make boundries but won't because the mucky mucks want it left status quo.

Seems Fargo Davies was pushed through by the wealthiest to serve themselves without trying to pretend to let everybody be heard.

Fargo South's area has too big an immigrant to suit the academic tastes of the far south. So push through a new High School to serve the wealthiest and newest area, which conveniently eliminates immigrant students from Davies. Later, when South's population decreases (doesn't have any growth area), consolidate North and South into North.

A number of people tried push through a combo south Fargo HS/ south West Fargo HS that could also serve Fargo students in the West Fargo School District, so two expensive new High Schools wouldn't have to be built, but those voices were hushed.

Bismarck seems to have a very good long-term plan, and every new or older HS will have growth areas.

http://bismarcktribu...1a4bcf887a.html

http://www.bismarcks...chool-board.pdf

[Fetch]

If a new walmart is built to the west wont more housing come to the west too

[UND92,96]

Bump: http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/our-opinion/3870314-our-opinion-red-river-central-show-troubling-disparities-sports

[The Sicatoka]

Why not take the Minot solution - they have grades 9 and 10 downtown and grades 11 and 12 at "Magic City". 

Just be "Grand Forks" with 9th and 10th grade at Central Campus (downtown) and 11th and 12th grades at Red River Campus.

Based on the GFH story, there are 2087 (937 GFC, 1150 GFRR) between the two schools. That's about the same number (2100) that is listed for Minot High.

The theory follows in that Minot also has (private, Catholic) Minot Ryan where GF has (yes, East Grand Forks, private, Cathlic) Sacred Heart. The difference is that there is EGF public there also. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by The Sicatoka

[Hansel]

Bump: http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/our-opinion/3870314-our-opinion-red-river-central-show-troubling-disparities-sports

Looks like test scores are pretty similar, if not better at Central

http://www.zillow.com/grand-forks-nd/schools/#/grand-forks-nd/schools/p=1

[Vegas_Sioux]

But then you couldn't have 2 teams with usually descent chance of winning the state hockey tournament every year. 

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Why not take the Minot solution - they have grades 9 and 10 downtown and grades 11 and 12 at "Magic City". 

Just be "Grand Forks" with 9th and 10th grade at Central Campus (downtown) and 11th and 12th grades at Red River Campus.

Based on the GFH story, there are 2087 (937 GFC, 1150 GFRR) between the two schools. That's about the same number (2100) that is listed for Minot High.

The theory follows in that Minot also has (private, Catholic) Minot Ryan where GF has (yes, East Grand Forks, private, Cathlic) Sacred Heart. The difference is that there is EGF public there also. 

If you talk to people in Minot, many believe it was a mistake to go that route as opposed to having two, separate high schools.

[Siouxperfan7]

But what would the new Grand Forks High School nickname be?!!  Let the debate begin!!