It's time for a coaching change

[Upper Deck]

Two quick items, all my opinion:

1) If anyone wants to sell their season tickets in the lower level, between the blue lines, I'll take them off your hands

2) I went to Target over lunch today with my head hung low. There was a boy in a shopping cart with his mom, he was bald and had some stitches on his head. He was wearing a Sioux jersey and was smiling and laughing. I spoke to his mom and said I was a Sioux fan too. We shared pleasantries and then the boy said "I hope to be able to watch them next year. They're my favorite team." I tried not to blubber and it put things back into perspective.

[egfhosejockey]

Posts in the forums are the opinions of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of SiouxSports.com or its affiliates. Posts are not actively managed or regulated.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Posts in the forums are the opinions of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of SiouxSports.com or its affiliates. Posts are not actively managed or regulated.

They're not? In that case I'm teeing off. How long do you think it will take me to get suspended again when I start bashing people?

[greenwinger_13]

I dont have time to read all 11 pages of this, nor do I want to... But I definetly think right offa the bat that this whole thread is ridiculous... it was a bad game, stuff happens.. four years coaching, four frozen fours... nough said

[redwing77]

I'm not insulted, I'm disappointed because there is no one here to clean up the mess this board is today. I expected more from the powers that be on this board. Common sense would tell you that the idiots would be out after a loss in a big game like yesterday, yet they left the daycare completely unattended. Guaranteed if I would bash people for bashing coaches/players I would either be suspended or banned for life. Believe, there are people on here who need a time out, and it's not me. I don't mean you RW, you tactfully state your opinion, I didn't intend to make you mad.

I'm not mad.... I find this board can try anyone's patience.

I freely admit to almost blindly supporting each player and coach on the team. I don't care if they flicked off a ref, made a mistake or two on or off the ice, or whatever.

I get myself all worked up when people act so ruthless on this board towards kids who are just doing their damndest to win. Sometimes it works. Other times it doesn't. Hakstol didn't spend the past 2 weeks saying "Ok, boys, let's work on this play so we can give up 4 goals in the first period and make our Frozen Four a laugher. I got a strict tee time the Friday after the game and I don't want to miss it!"

The fact that the term "flaming" is commonly renamed "criticism" really bothers me. We may be pissed off but like hell are the players feeling any better that we do right now. In fact, I'm pretty sure they feel pretty damn awful. We respect the players when they do something great or amazing but we line up to beat them down when they make a mistake. Seriously... what a low standard to have for our own behavior!

That's what disgusts me.

[THETRIOUXPER]

I'm not mad.... I find this board can try anyone's patience.

I freely admit to almost blindly supporting each player and coach on the team. I don't care if they flicked off a ref, made a mistake or two on or off the ice, or whatever.

I get myself all worked up when people act so ruthless on this board towards kids who are just doing their damndest to win. Sometimes it works. Other times it doesn't. Hakstol didn't spend the past 2 weeks saying "Ok, boys, let's work on this play so we can give up 4 goals in the first period and make our Frozen Four a laugher. I got a strict tee time the Friday after the game and I don't want to miss it!"

The fact that the term "flaming" is commonly renamed "criticism" really bothers me. We may be pissed off but like hell are the players feeling any better that we do right now. In fact, I'm pretty sure they feel pretty damn awful. We respect the players when they do something great or amazing but we line up to beat them down when they make a mistake. Seriously... what a low standard to have for our own behavior!

That's what disgusts me.

Exactly. Thanks for putting it into "nicer" terms than I ever could have.

[yzerman19]

Kids doing their best? That's a little too warm and fuzzy for a powerhouse division 1 hockey program, don't you think?

What was the line from 'The Rock"? Your best? Losers whine about doing their best, winners go home and f@%* the prom queen.

[Frontroguy]

Maybe getting to 4 Frozen Fours is good enough for the gophers, but not Sioux fans. We measure success by two things, regular season championships and NCAA titles. He has yet to net either one in his four years. Doug W. Hakstol will have his work cut out for him next year.

The team was not ready to play yesterday! We were outplayed and outcoached.

You are right. the season is a total failure. Turn in the tickets if Hak is back. Maybe it is the rink they play. get rid of that too. Maybe it is the players fault. Get rid of all of them as well. Better start all over, right?

I did not mean to disturb you from your self pity party. You may continue.

[MafiaMan]

Kids doing their best? That's a little too warm and fuzzy for a powerhouse division 1 hockey program, don't you think?

What was the line from 'The Rock'? Your best? Losers whine about doing their best, winners go home and f@%* the prom queen.

I'm trying to recall, but I think the prom queen at my high school was knocked up. So, would it be better for me to have been a loser whining about doing my best or a winner?

[siouxfaninkansascity]

This thread amazes me.

If you think you are hurting more than the players, you are not.

If you think you care more about this team than the players, you don't.

If you think you care more than Dave Hakstol, you don't.

This attitude that permeates from some on this board that they as fans are somehow "entitled" to an eigth championship is amazing. News flash: Winning the national championship is not that easy! This is a different era in college hockey. Every team in the FF is loaded with high end players. The players opting to go the college route are far better than those of the '70s and '80s. BC was better last night. Shake their hands and move on. This pissing and moaning that comes from some on this board is unbelievable. And this "losing to the same team three years in a row" BS that keeps coming up? Come on. It is college athletics, players change every year. So UND didn't have the minerals to get it done in the end this year, deal with it. I know for a fact they will be back next year, busting ass every night, trying to get "number 8" for those on this board that won't settle for anything less year in and year out, and then cry like little babies when the team comes up short.

The team owes the fans an apology? Robbie Bina, returns from a broken neck, Oshie, Chorney, come back for another year, Duncan probably cost himself money by coming back this year, but you're right though, they don't give a damn about Fighting Sioux hockey.

If your upset about going to Denver, and you feel the team didn't give you a great effort, the effort that you as a fan supposedly "deserve" and are "entitled" to, here's an idea, stay home next time!

(Oh yeah, and be sure to cast your vote for Obama or Hillary in the fall)

This sums it up perfectly from a man who had a great fondess for the state of North Dakota:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - T Roosevelt

Thanks to Hak and the staff, thanks to the players, it didn't end the way you wanted, but the journey was memorable.

See you in October.

[ringneck28]

I'm trying to recall, but I think the prom queen at my high school was knocked up. So, would it be better for me to have been a loser whining about doing my best or a winner?

One thing I have not seen mentioned once was this fact. If UND is so high on getting National Championships. Why in the world do they schedule a Curling Tourney At the end of the year when you don't really want to change things up to much. I understand that this is the REA, but I have to believe that Ralph might say, let someplace else have it, we have a chamionship to win. I know that they were still in GF, but they were not at home. They had thier routine upset. I know that hockey players are superstisious, and dang, we just throw them out of thier house.

[greatest sioux fan]

This thread amazes me.

If you think you are hurting more than the players, you are not.

If you think you care more about this team than the players, you don't.

If you think you care more than Dave Hakstol, you don't.

This attitude that permeates from some on this board that they as fans are somehow "entitled" to an eigth championship is amazing. News flash: Winning the national championship is not that easy! This is a different era in college hockey. Every team in the FF is loaded with high end players. The players opting to go the college route are far better than those of the '70s and '80s. BC was better last night. Shake their hands and move on. This pissing and moaning that comes from some on this board is unbelievable. And this "losing to the same team three years in a row" BS that keeps coming up? Come on. It is college athletics, players change every year. So UND didn't have the minerals to get it done in the end this year, deal with it. I know for a fact they will be back next year, busting ass every night, trying to get "number 8" for those on this board that won't settle for anything less year in and year out, and then cry like little babies when the team comes up short.

The team owes the fans an apology? Robbie Bina, returns from a broken neck, Oshie, Chorney, come back for another year, Duncan probably cost himself money by coming back this year, but you're right though, they don't give a damn about Fighting Sioux hockey.

If your upset about going to Denver, and you feel the team didn't give you a great effort, the effort that you as a fan supposedly "deserve" and are "entitled" to, here's an idea, stay home next time!

(Oh yeah, and be sure to cast your vote for Obama or Hillary in the fall)

This sums it up perfectly from a man who had a great fondess for the state of North Dakota:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - T Roosevelt

Thanks to Hak and the staff, thanks to the players, it didn't end the way you wanted, but the journey was memorable.

See you in October.

I agree with the post completely!! While I'm really disappointed we didn't win and won't get a chance to play for #8, the team had a great season, and gave us a chance to to go along for the ride with them. You are also right about the players, team, and the coaching staff. I know the coaching staff is hurt by what happened yesterday, but think about the players. They are definitely hurting knowing how things turned out yesterday, and wishing it would've turned out differently. I'm just thinking, for whatever reason, it just wasn't meant to be this year. Thank you to the players that stayed for the year instead of turning pro so we could see them again this year. Thank you to the team, and the coaching staff for a great year!!

[bison fan north of GF]

It would be very nice to keep players throughout college eligibility, but I just don't see how you can guarantee that considering you are always trying to recruit the best young hockey talent.

Do you think your players are going to go to class now or go back to Canada??:)?

[Goon]

They're not? In that case I'm teeing off. How long do you think it will take me to get suspended again when I start bashing people?

You probably won't get suspended there are a person on here attacking people left and right and nothing has happened to him.

[Stromer]

You probably won't get suspended there are a person on here attacking people left and right and nothing has happened to him.

I have been wondering that myself. Hate to see something that would actually cause a suspension.

[DAR]

Do you think your players are going to go to class now or go back to Canada??:)?

You are a dumbass. Enjoy peewee hockey at the Fargo Dome

[.357]

Seriously, my point is that some so-called "fans" of this team who either never learned to skate themselves or didn't make the cut out of mini-mites are some of the biggest critics. Go put on a jock, give Hakstol a call, and tell him you'll show the boys how its really done at the first practice next season. Then post on the message board your results.

Then that means I can't criticize the president, the construction team that built my house, the cook who burnt my steak last week, my supervisor, my dr. who charged me over $500 to de-wax my ears, etc., all because I've never held their positions before & can't do their work now. That's what you're implying by logical extension. Judging/discernment is an evolutionary trait that humans have acquired over the past 30-50k years for the sake of survival & bettering themselves; by nature the criticisms will abound when a team flops. Especially here, it's human nature. Being objectively critical of a team's performance is the best thing you can do for a team that wants to improve; saying "that's tough, there's always next year" doesn't inspire change for the better & is glossing over any deficiencies/flaws that will be repeated if not corrected. So, hopefully the coaching staff will evaluate themselves honestly in the off-season, from their types of recruits & conditioning exercises to their pre-game preparations & post-season scouting. Everything. Positive change through honest introspection. That goes for the players also.

(not necessarily directed at you-->) Of course no team is going to win the NC every year, but it should be the belief and expectation of everyone on the Sioux hockey team that they will accomplish great things & not settle for anything less than the title year in & year out. It's nonsense for a team & its fans who are accustomed to success to be complacent with runner-ups. That's the fate of the Michigan Techs & Pittsburgh Pirates of this world. "Apologists" & "Sioux hockey" should be mutually exclusive concepts.

[siouxkid12]

Then that means I can't criticize the president, the construction team that built my house, the cook who burnt my steak last week, my supervisor, my dr. who charged me over $500 to de-wax my ears, etc., all because I've never held their positions before & can't do their work now. That's what you're implying by logical extension. Judging/discernment is an evolutionary trait that humans have acquired over the past 30-50k years for the sake of survival & bettering themselves; by nature the criticisms will abound when a team flops. Especially here, it's human nature. Being objectively critical of a team's performance is the best thing you can do for a team that wants to improve; saying "that's tough, there's always next year" doesn't inspire change for the better & is glossing over any deficiencies/flaws that will be repeated if not corrected. So, hopefully the coaching staff will evaluate themselves honestly in the off-season, from their types of recruits & conditioning exercises to their pre-game preparations & post-season scouting. Everything. Positive change through honest introspection. That goes for the players also.

(not necessarily directed at you-->) Of course no team is going to win the NC every year, but it should be the belief and expectation of everyone on the Sioux hockey team that they will accomplish great things & not settle for anything less than the title year in & year out. It's nonsense for a team & its fans who are accustomed to success to be complacent with runner-ups. That's the fate of the Michigan Techs & Pittsburgh Pirates of this world. "Apologists" & "Sioux hockey" should be mutually exclusive concepts.

hold the phone here! 1. its a game...plain and simple, 2. where were most of these fans when the sioux were going through bad seasons? i can understand some people criticizing the team but it better come from someone who has waited years to see their team get to the show! its these bandwagon fans that are ruining it for everyone else. i for one am sick and tired of the "fan when we are winning" get your ass outta here because the sioux hockey team does not need your half-ass support! thats the difference i believe MM was trying to get at!

[MafiaMan]

Being objectively critical of a team's performance is the best thing you can do for a team that wants to improve; saying "that's tough, there's always next year" doesn't inspire change for the better & is glossing over any deficiencies/flaws that will be repeated if not corrected.

By being 'objectively critical,' do you mean spouting off garbage like 'FIRE THE WHOLE COACHING STAFF' or 'THE OFFICIAL JOE FINLEY BASHING THREAD'?

I guess we agree to disagree on what exactly would help the team improve. Personally, if I had some overweight 45 year old idiot in the stands yelling at me and how I coach baseball, I'd invite him to get his fat ass out of the stands and join me on the field and show me what he knows.

[sioux7>5]

OK I just got someof the highlights from this thread, let me start by saying a BIG NO you do not fire the coaching staff. Coaches coach and players play. What I say thursday from my very high up seat in the Pepsi Center was some kids(and lets try and remember they are kids) get a little off their game and just could not get started. It happens. Yes I am bummed out, but am not ready to fire Hak and his crew.

My next question I have not heard anything about Chorneys injury can someone give me some insight? Thanks.

[THETRIOUXPER]

You probably won't get suspended there are a person on here attacking people left and right and nothing has happened to him.

Yeah, deans vendetta with you (Goon) is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Jim and the boys give nothing more than lip service when they say they are cleaning up and enforcing the "rules." The only enforcing of the rules was suspending me for two weeks, which I had coming, yet others on here continue to violate board rules and nothing is done. The double standard here is ridiculous.

[Goon]

Yeah, deans vendetta with you (Goon) is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Jim and the boys give nothing more than lip service when they say they are cleaning up and enforcing the "rules." The only enforcing of the rules was suspending me for two weeks, which I had coming, yet others on here continue to violate board rules and nothing is done. The double standard here is ridiculous.

Don't worry Triouxper, I sent Jim an example of what Dean has been saying.

[Mikey]

I don't have time to read this whole thing but the idea of a coaching change is ludicrous. Albeit, I hav only been a Sioux fan for 7-8 years (since I moved to Grand Forks), but getting to the Frozen Four four years in a row in a single elimination tournament is a helluva accomplishment.

This team is probably one of the lesser talented Sioux teams I have seen, and they still managed to make it to the national semifinals.

You think Duke would fire Coach K if he lost in four consecutive Frozen Fours? Did the Bills fire Marv Levy after the Bills lost a fourth straight Super Bowl?

You can't win it all every year, but it's dang nice to know that come the end of the season you'll have a chance to do so.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Don't worry Triouxper, I sent Jim an example of what Dean has been saying.

Yes, Jim, the "blind eye of justice," I hope it works out for you man. What I don't understand is the fact that he allows people to bash Hak and players, and certain individuals to harass others like yourself. But, when people like me go to their defense by bashing someone, then the axe starts swing. There is just no consistency to the enforcement of the loosley termed "rules" here. It all depends on who you are.

[Stromer]

By being 'objectively critical,' do you mean spouting off garbage like 'FIRE THE WHOLE COACHING STAFF' or 'THE OFFICIAL JOE FINLEY BASHING THREAD'?

Exactly. Some fans can't see the difference between saying that we need some speed on D for next year compared to Joe Finley sucks. There in lies the problem.