It's time for a coaching change

[MafiaMan]

I think there is always some 'hindsight is 20/20' and I'd agree on the points that STS made. It was interesting watching the Hakstol vs Berenson coaching philosophies: One stuck with his goalie after 3-0 and it quickly became 6-0. One pulled his goalie and 3-0 eventually became 3-3. I'm not saying Hakstol should have pulled JPL, but a time-out may have been a good move at the 3-0 mark.

Jerry York's team was being dominated in OT by Miami in the regional title game. He called a time-out shortly before the BC game-winner. It appeared to settle his team down and they pulled it out.

[Taz Boy]

Watch the post-game press conference if you want a personal explanation, Taz Boy. Maybe you can write Dave Hakstol an e-mail and demand an answer.

NHL caliber talent doesn't guarantee anything.

Those of you with the balls to say that Joe Finley sucks, I dare you to meet him at the airport and tell him that in person and explain what he was doing on the first goal. What a bunch of keyboard muscleheads some of the folks on this board are. Get a grip!

And again with the "guarantee" thing. What's up with that? How did Joe Finley enter into this? I didn't say he sucked specifically, but I'm open to a debate on the subject.

[SiouxScore!]

Are the post game press confrences linked anywhere yet?

[sioux7]

Why wasn't there a time out called? Why wasn't the goalie replaced? Why didn't Hak do something to jump start the team? Hell, Berenson did it and got them right back in it!

[THETRIOUXPER]

Why wasn't there a time out called? Why wasn't the goalie replaced? Why didn't Hak do something to jump start the team? Hell, Berenson did it and got them right back in it!

Last time I checked Hak was coaching the Sioux, not Red. Whatever happened to "in Hak we trust?" Boy is it ever easy for some people to forget.

[BigGame]

I can now clearly see why so many people dislike Sioux hockey fans.

[MafiaMan]

And again with the "guarantee" thing. What's up with that? How did Joe Finley enter into this? I didn't say he sucked specifically, but I'm open to a debate on the subject.

Last time I checked, BC had some NHL caliber players too.

Finley wasn't pointed out directly at you, Taz Boy. That was a general statement thanks to another thread started by someone else.

No wonder so many long-time posters have left this board to the newbies and people with no insight at all. As I left Joe Senser's last night, got home and sat down at my computer, I told myself, "don't do it, don't do it...all you're going to see is 'FIRE HAKSTOL' and 'JOE FINLEY IS THE WORST DEFENSEMAN SINCE BRIAN LEE.' And stunningly enough, as soon as I logged into siouxsports.com, I was right.

[gfhockey]

its not the coaches. anyways, if u gusy had ur way and they fired hakstol, who woudl coach the sioux? there is no one better then hakstol.

i think its just the players. hakstol recuits all these high end guys that were drafted high and only care about them self. blaise really never had all the top end guys. he had the 4 year rough tough players. like the matt handerson's, the ulmers, panzers, hoogsteens the guys that owudl stay longer and beat all the teams with the draft picks.

[sioux7]

Last time I checked Hak was coaching the Sioux, not Red. Whatever happened to "in Hak we trust?" Boy is it ever easy for some people to forget.

I agree. I have the post game blues. I was just asking. I for one will never give-up on the Sioux. I have been with them since I was a little guy. Just hard to take right now. This too shall pass.

[THETRIOUXPER]

its not the coaches. anyways, if u gusy had ur way and they fired hakstol, who woudl coach the sioux? there is no one better then hakstol.

i think its just the players. hakstol recuits all these high end guys that were drafted high and only care about them self. blaise really never had all the top end guys. he had the 4 year rough tough players. like the matt handerson's, the ulmers, panzers, hoogsteens the guys that owudl stay longer and beat all the teams with the draft picks.

Oshie, Duncan, Chorney, Finley, yeah they all care about themselves so much they gave up guaranteed offers to come back here and play in front of people without a clue just like yourself. This just keeps getting better. I have to wonder where the moderators are? Like MafiaMan, this is exactly what I expected.

[MafiaMan]

i think its just the players. hakstol recuits all these high end guys that were drafted high and only care about them self. blaise really never had all the top end guys. he had the 4 year rough tough players. like the matt handerson's, the ulmers, panzers, hoogsteens the guys that owudl stay longer and beat all the teams with the draft picks.

In this era of players leaving school after their freshman year for a shot at glory (Kyle Turris, Phil Kessel, and others), it's become almost unthinkable to imagine top-line talent staying for four years of college.

Chorney, Oshie, and Finley are all pro prospects who came back this season. If TJ blows out a knee in game #1 on the season and it's a career-ender, do you think the St Louis Blues will feel bad and still give him a few million dollars to spend? I doubt it.

It's a high-risk, high-reward situation. These guys came back to school because they made a pact. It didn't work out but that's life. Some of the best players in college don't come close to sniffing a Frozen Four let alone an NCAA title. These guys took a chance and it didn't pan out the way they'd hoped. That's how life is sometimes - it isn't always fair.

[engelbunny]

Mafiaman - I'll second your "Wow"

What a ridiculous notion that the team needs to make a public apology. I personally would like to thank them for a great season. You can't win them all. I understand everyone is disappointed, but I'm fairly confident no fan is more disappointed than the actual players or coaching staff themselves. Let's face it, nobody shows up to a game to lose, but everyone knows only one team can win. I feel bad that it wasn't the Fighting Sioux, I wanted them to win just like we all did. But to go as far as saying they owe me or any fan an apology, absurd.

What I would like to honestly believe is that a team plays together to win, however there are no guarantees in any game. What I already know is that a team doesn't owe anyone an apology for losing, no matter how much the fans spent on tickets or what they went through to travel to get to the game.

Thanks for a great season Fighting Sioux. I can't wait for next season to start cheering again.

You people expecting nothing less than the national championship each and every season are out of your freaking minds. I realize that that's the goal, but, cmon, the post-season takes some incredible skill as well as luck.

In my mind, the two most dominating Sioux teams of recent memory, 1998 and 1999, didn't even make the Frozen Four! I think you could say the same thing about the 2004 Sioux as well. It's part of the game.

Had the Sioux lost a 6-5 heartbreaker in triple overtime last night, would this "coaching thread" even exist?

You people are a bit too literal. Obviously, I don't actually expect the coach or the players or anyone else associated with the program to make a "Public Apology".

But come on. If you had actually been at the game and were able to follow the play away from the puck, and witness what our players were doing "off the screen", you would have been sick to your stomach. It was breathtaking in its futility. When our guys got knocked down (which was often), it was all they could do to even muster enough energy to get back up, let alone rejoin the play. Everywhere the puck went, there were at least 3 maroon jerseys. The white ones didn't even bother. Line changes were lethargic. Don't even think of discussing physical play, because there wasn't any on our side. At one point a BC player that could barely reach Finley's chin if Joe were on his knees, laid a hit on him that sent him back a step or two and Joe did absolutley nothing but slowly skate to the bench. I'm not picking on Joe either, that was the state of the whole team. We got beat up and down the ice, and just plain beat up. It was unacceptable and the fans have every right to be pissed off.

Sure, you make the decision to travel and spend the dough you take your chances on whether or not you are going to get to play two. The Michigan fans know this as well. But while the Big Blue got rocked early, they did what a good team does, they strapped em on tighter and actually played. They didn't just freaking quit. I'm a big boy and I don't expect the team has to win because I spent some dough or invested some time, but I think that I and the thousands of other fans at least deserved an effort! And, I don't think it is out of the realm for the team and the coaching staff to have a little introspection about that.

Would a "6-5 heartbreaker" have made a difference. You bet your freaking a$$ it would have. That would have met that our team had actually played. In a Herald article before yesterday's game there was the line that UND was down here on a "business trip." If that was their business presentation, then the company is in some serious trouble.

All this crap talk about "If you think you can do better than get some skates on give Hak a call" is just plain stupid. The boys on the ice are young, but their not little kids either. They were recruited because they are top notch athletes and have the mental toughness to play not just at the D-1 level, but for one of the top programs at that level in the country. The should be able to handle a little adversity.

They should also know that we as fans are utterly dissappointed, and we have every right to be. And I think that every member of that team and coaching staff knows it and would tell you straight out that we deserve to be.

[gfhockey]

prepare to get bashed engelbunny. cue to mafiaman and thetriouxper.

[MafiaMan]

What's really needed is a public apology to the fans.

Oh, so you didn't literally mean that. I can see how I mis-interpreted such words.

Fire Hakstol. Oh, not literally.

[Taz Boy]

Last time I checked, BC had some NHL caliber players too.

Finley wasn't pointed out directly at you, Taz Boy. That was a general statement thanks to another thread started by someone else.

No wonder so many long-time posters have left this board to the newbies and people with no insight at all. As I left Joe Senser's last night, got home and sat down at my computer, I told myself, "don't do it, don't do it...all you're going to see is 'FIRE HAKSTOL' and 'JOE FINLEY IS THE WORST DEFENSEMAN SINCE BRIAN LEE.' And, stunningly enough, I was right.

Understood. But, I'm more open to folks venting as long as it's directed at the performance and not malicious personal crap. Some of that here qualifies, most not. The archival nature of the web forums is unfortunate, because stuff gets written that may have more drama than it would after a few days or weeks, but hey, that's what it is. I'm certainly not going to fault someone for openly lamenting dropping $1K to watch their favorite team take a dump, a generous analogy to be sure.

I'm concerned with any notion that the Sioux players and coaches cannot be criticized. While I agree that firing Hakstol is over the top, as he is 1000 times more "Fighting Sioux" than most fans could hope to be, I also think that position comes with brutal expectations and is rightly held to a high standard. Many programs are. That's what makes the job so fantastic. Hakstol has repeatedly stated that the Fighting Sioux nation is incredibly demanding, success oriented, banner driven. He seems perfectly comfortable with that responsibility. I think he can take the heat.

As to BC, I think they as a whole are on another level. If they tank the title game again, then no doubt Eagles folks will look to York-- probably the most storied coach out there-- for answers as well. It's a tough business.

taz

[MafiaMan]

Understood. But, I'm more open to folks venting as long as it's directed at the performance and not malicious personal crap. Some of that here qualifies, most not. The archival nature of the web forums is unfortunate, because stuff gets written that may have more drama than it would after a few days or weeks, but hey, that's what it is. I'm certainly not going to fault someone for openly lamenting dropping $1K to watch their favorite team take a dump, a generous analogy to be sure.

I'm concerned with any notion that the Sioux players and coaches cannot be criticized. While I agree that firing Hakstol is over the top, as he is 1000 times more "Fighting Sioux" than most fans could hope to be, I also think that position comes with brutal expectations and is rightly held to a high standard. Many programs are. That's what makes the job so fantastic. Hakstol has repeatedly stated that the Fighting Sioux nation is incredibly demanding, success oriented, banner driven. He seems perfectly comfortable with that responsibility. I think he can take the heat.

As to BC, I think they as a whole are on another level. If they tank the title game again, then no doubt Eagles folks will look to York-- probably the most storied coach out there-- for answers as well. It's a tough business.

taz

You know, Taz Boy, I like to think that there isn't anyone on the siouxsports board that I couldn't sit down next to at a bar or a game and enjoy a conversation with. People lose interest in the board quickly when it becomes a banter back and forth about he's-an-idiot or that-guy-sucks.

While people may agree or disagree on rants and raves, coaching decisions, etc., we are fans of the same team and we're all obviously terribly disappointed today.

Much like last year, BC goes into Saturday's game an overwhelming favorite. However, this time I think Jerry York and the boys finish the climb and erase the memory of several years of heartbreak. It may not be 2009 or even 2010, but someday soon, the Sioux will win a national title again and fans, coaches, players, and former players will all stop thinking about what-could-have-been and be thankful for the chance at immortality.

Whenever I feel down about 2008 or any other season that hasn't gone my way, I think back to sitting in the stands at the Bradley Center watching the empty-netter make the score 6-4 Sioux over BU and you knew that an unbelievable cinderella season would have a magical ending. I sat with a dozen of my college friends along with my then-roommate and his girlfriend and the dancing and hugs we shared when the clock hit 0:00 is a memory I'll never ever forget. Don't lose heart...it will happen again.

[jhckyman99]

You win as a team, you lose as a team. Our boys didnt play the best game so what they are young men growing into adults some will play pro hockey others will not. They all lace them up for the team we are all passionate for thats why we have forums like these. In the end every hockey player is human, every hockey coach is human we all make mistakes we move on we all grow from it. We are fans watching a game this is not life or death. No matter how you look at it, it is still a game played by Boys and Girls. Yes some people are payed alot of money to play but it still is a game. Why do guys like Chelios play so long because the love of the game and not the love of a job. Hak and all the coaches great job, to all the players great year, and to all the guys behinde the scenes great job making sure our team always hits the ice. Enough said

[gfhockey]

high school never ends.

[SoonersNSioux]

"Our boys didnt play the best game"

Understatement of the year. Am I disappointed? Of course, but I can GUARANTEE I am not as disappointed as our players are with themselves. Anyone that plays sports know how it goes. Sometimes you just suck it up big time at the worst possible time. Coaching change? Naw. I mean if we want our coaches to put our players' underwear and feed them baby food on then sure, but at some point it comes down to execution.

Perhaps I'm the bad Karma... between OU (football) and UND (hockey), my teams have been disappointing in the big games lately.

[Irish]

Not everyone who posts on this thread wants to fire Hakstol (even some with very negative comments). That being said, some of the blame yesterdays humiliating performance must fall on the coaches. This was one of the most painful games to watch that I have ever seen. To come out that flat in a Frozen Four is almost inexcusable. BC handed us our butts on every level - hitting, speed, heart, coaching, you name it. They played like the Sioux used to. Expectations for the Sioux hockey program are that we are going to win some championships. If a coach can't get that done, he is going to be criticized. We have had 4 shots at ithe frozen 4, and have a 1-4 record under Hakstol. While any one loss can be explained, the pattern is not good. We expect more - not every season, but often enough. I hope the freshman class next year is loaded - I feel that much of the problem this year is that we don't have any top of the line (Oshie, Toews, Gerbe for example) studs in either of this years freshman or sophomore classes (I'm not saying we don't have some talented players- just no top of the line players. Add to that that we have no experienced goaltender coming back and I am worried. I'm afraid we blew our last chance for a couple of years. How long are we willing to wait for # 8? I for one am getting restless.

[yzerman19]

Fire Hakstol? No, a good public tar and feathering would be much more appropriate

What makes winning championships so special, is the fact that you don't win one every year. If you won it every single year, not only would it be boring, but also it would fascist.

We had character guys...anyone want to tell me that Kyle Radke and Rylan Kaip didn't have green tears as they sat in that locker room and thought about untying those laces?

We had skilled players...tons of draftees, two Hobey Finalists, a Hobey Winner

In the end it wasn't our year.

Now as far as a change in coaching, I agree. DO NOT CHANGE THE COACH, however, change a couple little things. I don't like the high break out. I don't like the sloppy play on the blue line in the offensive zone, I don't like how easily we surrender our defensive blue line.

[MafiaMan]

I'm afraid we blew our last chance for a couple of years. How long are we willing to wait for # 8? I for one am getting restless.

Notre Dame has waited for years for #1. Count your blessings.

[yzerman19]

I also hate the cycle. I am a big fan of always, and I mean always, have a shooter somewhere in the slot. If you've got three forwards deep cycling, and you lose a battle, all it takes is for one person to win a foot race and you're dealing with a 3 on 2 odd-man coming back the other way. One guy into the corner or along the end boards, win the one on one Pete Forsberg style and look for one guy in the slot and the other guy driving the far post.

Also, how about following your shot. Don't they teach that anymore? The only guys who I see do that effectively are TJ and VV.

[THETRIOUXPER]

prepare to get bashed engelbunny. cue to mafiaman and thetriouxper.

There's no bashing that needs to be done. MafiaMan is right, so am I. Still no moderators to mop up this mess. I bet if I started throwing down personal attacks on those who are deserving of it I would have the moderators all over me like stink on !@#$. How ironic that they allow it to go on as long as it is a player or a coach. Like has been stated before, this is why good people like PCM and others don't come here anymore.

[Taz Boy]

It may not be 2009 or even 2010, but someday soon, the Sioux will win a national title again and fans, coaches, players, and former players will all stop thinking about what-could-have-been and be thankful for the chance at immortality.

It is for this very reason that I think heat from the fans is warranted, and can actually help rebuilding. Losing to BC this year was always a very real possibility, not giving them the respect of an honest game is the issue. It's hard to imagine this team left it all on the ice last night. Maybe they did and BC is untouchable. But, we can't assume that based on the evidence provided by ESPN2 and eye-witness accounts. Regardless, I celebrate the high expectations of Fighting Sioux Fans, and their passion for success. I fear the day UND becomes satisfied with anything less than a regular season title and a national championship.

Whenever I feel down about 2008 or any other season that hasn't gone my way, I think back to sitting in the stands at the Bradley Center watching the empty-netter make the score 6-4 Sioux over BU and you knew that an unbelievable cinderella season would have a magical ending. I sat with a dozen of my college friends along with my then-roommate and his girlfriend and the dancing and hugs we shared when the clock hit 0:00 is a memory I'll never ever forget. Don't lose heart...it will happen again.

That '97 game was quite sweet, I must say. Post-game with the players was very special. Then off to one of the local pubs to watch Clem's Gophers in the BB Final Four, which now technically didn't happen according to the NCAA.

One final point:

Did anyone notice BC pull up on at least one (two?) breakaways in the third? This was more than just defensive shell, I think York sent a message once the game was beyond repair to keep the rout in check. I have to believe this is sign of respect he has for the Sioux program. I also believe that Red's boys would have gone to town in the third to make a statement.

I think I like the BC program a little more today for the dominate, but controlled beating they gave our beloved team.

taz