COMMITTED UND Recruits

[UNDMOORHEAD]

26 minutes ago, jk said:

The point is that a lack of drafted players need not keep a team from succeeding.  It was true in 1997, and it was proven to still be true recently in the revenge of the smart kids.  It doesn't make it a preferred approach to team-building perennially, but then that's not the situation UND is in.  I suspect UND's coaches try for a balance of older character guys (to keep the hotshots honest and humble and keep them from getting ground into dust by the WMUs of the world) and younger kids with world-class athleticism.  The current mix may not suit some of the faithful.

 

A mix of four year guys and high end youngsters is the key as I see it. I don't want to end up on the Wisconsin plan of giant freshmen classes that struggle for two years, compete in the third year, and have a chance at a natty in the fourth. Character guys are important, but so are the blue chippers. 

[tnt]

1 hour ago, jk said:

The point is that a lack of drafted players need not keep a team from succeeding.  It was true in 1997, and it was proven to still be true recently in the revenge of the smart kids.  It doesn't make it a preferred approach to team-building perennially, but then that's not the situation UND is in.  I suspect UND's coaches try for a balance of older character guys (to keep the hotshots honest and humble and keep them from getting ground into dust by the WMUs of the world) and younger kids with world-class athleticism.  The current mix may not suit some of the faithful.

 

The number 2 team in the pairwise is getting it done despite scoring less than us.  How well would we be sitting if we played like we did the first half of the year defensively.  We would be challenging for the Penrose.  Obviously not losing if you score 2 goals was unsustainable, but 3 goals should be a standard that we haven’t lived up to the second half.  With where we are at, we need to make sure if we get to 3, we win.  

[tnt]

Top seven teams in goals per game right now are Minnesota State, St. Cloud, Nebraska Omaha, Penn State, Western Michigan, Princeton and Northeastern.  None of those teams scream out high end recruits.  Poehling for St. Cloud was, but his numbers are on par with those of Mismash.  I think in today’s game having a great power play is a great equalizer if you don’t always get the high end talent, because even many of the so called studs sometimes struggle their rookie year.  Remember Charlie Coyle’s rookie year before he left?  

[scpa0305]

16 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Btw, I just reread this an if I'm coming off that I'm trying to insult you, that is absolutely not my intention whatsoever! I hope you aren't feeling that way.

Haha no not at all.  I guess I didn’t know we were down one prior to gornall leaving. I get the new kid doesn’t replace gersich but at this point there are no good kids playing juniors that haven’t committed somewhere.  

[scpa0305]

14 hours ago, jk said:

Without checking, I doubt Union and Yale, recent champions, had more than a very few drafted players between them.

Not to sound negative...but if we followed their recruiting strategy we’d be in trouble   union is getting better though.

[scpa0305]

More likely than not, higher drafted player will be better than lower drafted or undrafted players.  The more drafted kids you get (that fit the culture of your program obviously) the better.

[franchise]

55 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Not to sound negative...but if we followed their recruiting strategy we’d be in trouble   union is getting better though.

Their average roster would have a pretty tough go with an NCHC schedule

[stoneySIOUX]

14 hours ago, petey23 said:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/4407230-his-first-year-varsity-hockey-tyler-kleven-already-imposing-presence

Sounds like a long-awaited "blue-chipper" to me:

The first time Oliver heard about Kleven was from his son, Nick, who is an assistant coach with the Sioux Falls Stampede in the United States Hockey League.

“Nick was out at the 15s (festival) and said, ‘This guy from Fargo is for sure one of the top six in the nation, have you looked at him?,’” Scott said. “He wasn’t someone who was on our radar (for the Elite League team). But I took a look at him. We brought him to tryouts in Bemidji and he was one of our top players.”

[The Exiled One]

1 hour ago, scpa0305 said:

More likely than not, higher drafted player will be better than lower drafted or undrafted players.  The more drafted kids you get (that fit the culture of your program obviously) the better.

On average, I'd agree with you. However, I think there is a big and understated difference between college hockey potential and pro hockey potential.

One example that comes to mind is Justin Holl and Andrew Prochno. Both were defensemen in the same class at Minnetonka HS. Prochno was smaller, led his team in points, and went undrafted. Holl was bigger and was drafted in the 2nd round. Prochno had a stellar career at St. Cloud while Holl had a modest career at Minnesota. Holl made his NHL debut this year. Prochno flamed out of the ECHL in 2016.

Here's my point: Good recruiting is about more than landing the obviously good prospects, it's about filling your roster with underrated prospects then coaching them to their full potential. Though most of the best players will be drafted, most drafted players will be overrated as college hockey prospects.

[stoneySIOUX]

5 hours ago, The Exiled One said:

On average, I'd agree with you. However, I think there is a big and understated difference between college hockey potential and pro hockey potential.

One example that comes to mind is Justin Holl and Andrew Prochno. Both were defensemen in the same class at Minnetonka HS. Prochno was smaller, led his team in points, and went undrafted. Holl was bigger and was drafted in the 2nd round. Prochno had a stellar career at St. Cloud while Holl had a modest career at Minnesota. Holl made his NHL debut this year. Prochno flamed out of the ECHL in 2016.

Here's my point: Good recruiting is about more than landing the obviously good prospects, it's about filling your roster with underrated prospects then coaching them to their full potential. Though most of the best players will be drafted, most drafted players will be overrated as college hockey prospects.

I'm sorry, but you just don't utter this name on here. You just. Don't. Do it.

[scpa0305]

59 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I'm sorry, but you just don't utter this name on here. You just. Don't. Do it.

Agreed, couldn’t even respond to his post.

[scpa0305]

2 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Sounds like a long-awaited "blue-chipper" to me:

The first time Oliver heard about Kleven was from his son, Nick, who is an assistant coach with the Sioux Falls Stampede in the United States Hockey League.

“Nick was out at the 15s (festival) and said, ‘This guy from Fargo is for sure one of the top six in the nation, have you looked at him?,’” Scott said. “He wasn’t someone who was on our radar (for the Elite League team). But I took a look at him. We brought him to tryouts in Bemidji and he was one of our top players.”

Yeah he’s been committed for some time (I know you know this but at the time of his commitment he was one of he top dmen for his age in the country).  What’s odd though is that he doesn’t have that many pts for being labeled an offensive minded dmen.  Especially since he’s playing ND high school hockey.  He must be forced to sit back a ton. 5 assists in 24 high school games?

[stoneySIOUX]

24 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Yeah he’s been committed for some time (I know you know this but at the time of his commitment he was one of he top dmen for his age in the country).  What’s odd though is that he doesn’t have that many pts for being labeled an offensive minded dmen.  Especially since he’s playing ND high school hockey.  He must be forced to sit back a ton. 5 assists in 24 high school games?

I'll be completely honest, I don't know a lot about this kid other than he's a beast size wise. 

[stoneySIOUX]

19 hours ago, tnt said:

The number 2 team in the pairwise is getting it done despite scoring less than us.  How well would we be sitting if we played like we did the first half of the year defensively.  We would be challenging for the Penrose.  Obviously not losing if you score 2 goals was unsustainable, but 3 goals should be a standard that we haven’t lived up to the second half.  With where we are at, we need to make sure if we get to 3, we win.  

*Cough* Big 10 *Cough*

[scpa0305]

Curious if Jackson Keane makes it next year.  Currently he is 10th on his junior team in point production and is one of the older players in the league (‘97).  

[siouxczech29]

I think most of us that are interested in recruiting are curious about that.  Keane has signed his LOI so I (and others here) assume he'll be a freshman at UND next year.

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

8 minutes ago, siouxczech29 said:

I think most of us that are interested in recruiting are curious about that.  Keane has signed his LOI so I (and others here) assume he'll be a freshman at UND next year.

So did Rowe, who is now at ASU.

[AJS]

18 minutes ago, siouxczech29 said:

I think most of us that are interested in recruiting are curious about that.  Keane has signed his LOI so I (and others here) assume he'll be a freshman at UND next year.

I've went down that road a couple times this year, questioning Keane (along with Mattson earlier). It's a valid question, would really like to hear what the coaches think his role would be.

*I realize teams need players to play different roles, ect. Keane really does stick out though.

[franchise]

26 minutes ago, AJS said:

I've went down that road a couple times this year, questioning Keane (along with Mattson earlier). It's a valid question, would really like to hear what the coaches think his role would be.

*I realize teams need players to play different roles, ect. Keane really does stick out though.

We're a little short on 3rd and 4th liners right now, soooo

 

Side note...excited to see Randklev in Bemidji tomorrow

[siouxforce19]

1 hour ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

So did Rowe, who is now at ASU.

Yes, and that was Rowe’s decision.

IMO, the only way Keane isn’t on campus in the fall is if he decided he wants to be released from that LOI and is granted that release. 

[brianvf]

30 minutes ago, siouxforce19 said:

Yes, and that was Rowe’s decision.

He's barely playing for ASU (only played in 16 out of 34 games) and only has 1g/1a in those 16 games.
Ouch.

[SiouxFan25]

Keane probably should not be playing D-1 hockey plain and simple. At the very least he doesn't belong in the NCHC or anything like it. Senden is better, but I'm not sure how much at this point. He's struggled mightily to score in the USHL and well he does have excellent defense/leadership abilities, I don't think that'll be enough to make up for his lack of offense. Hain will be solid, but could probably use another year of juniors. Huber is a bit more of a question mark, but I don't see him being anything more than a bottom 6 player for next year. Weatherby seems like the only one of the bunch who will be able to contribute right away (except maybe Hain), but I still don't see him putting up more than 10-15 points next year. Love our defensive recruits, but right now it looks like we're gonna have that same scoring problem next season...

[franchise]

Someone let Rizzo know he's guaranteed big mins

[tnt]

17 hours ago, SiouxFan25 said:

Keane probably should not be playing D-1 hockey plain and simple. At the very least he doesn't belong in the NCHC or anything like it. Senden is better, but I'm not sure how much at this point. He's struggled mightily to score in the USHL and well he does have excellent defense/leadership abilities, I don't think that'll be enough to make up for his lack of offense. Hain will be solid, but could probably use another year of juniors. Huber is a bit more of a question mark, but I don't see him being anything more than a bottom 6 player for next year. Weatherby seems like the only one of the bunch who will be able to contribute right away (except maybe Hain), but I still don't see him putting up more than 10-15 points next year. Love our defensive recruits, but right now it looks like we're gonna have that same scoring problem next season...

Have you watched all of these guys extensively, or did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?   

[SiouxFan25]

29 minutes ago, tnt said:

Have you watched all of these guys extensively, or did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?   

Haha, haven't seen a lot of any of them I'm just basing it all off of stats mostly. I could be, and probably am, pretty wrong about all of them but this is just what I think from what I've heard and read