buckysieve Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Does he play with the heart and desire of Oshie, every shift? Yes he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZSIOUX Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Yes he does. this is getting good again, from the very 1st post anyone could see where this thread would end up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckysieve Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 2. I have no problem with anyone dishing criticism of Kisshole. From the games during recruiting, to the press conference, to his classless statements in dishing the Badgers when there was no reason or need to do so, to the cup on the ear at The Kohl, to his always looking for the puck rather than passing the puck, he deserves every bit of flack he is given. Is he good? Sure. Is he a cancer? That remains to be seen. Does he play with the heart and desire of Oshie, every shift? No way. The press conference was put on by USA hockey, not Kessel. They made him do it because it was a big day for the U.S. junior program. If it was up to Kessel, it would not have happened. He never said anything bad about UW. The fact that you think he doesn't pass the puck is laughable. A cancer? Are you serious? From day one all he wanted to do was fit in with his teammates. He might be the most humble kid on the team and he is very well liked by the other players. He hates any individual attention he gets by all accounts of people in the program. What bothers me the most are these ridiculous misconceptions about Kessel being a cocky, selfish, pre ma donna. He's actually quite the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 this is getting good again, from the very 1st post anyone could see where this thread would end up.... I tried to divert the thread and make it fun, but got yelled at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Man Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Every fan base has the lunatic fringe - - including us. It is OK to hate Kesshole, the Gophers, Denver, Punkovitch, Gwozdecky, Lucia, Mankato, the badgers, Duluth, etc. The incessant pathological aspect to it though is laughable. I keep saying to myself - self - do some of these people have body parts in their freezer ? All together now ............ kuymbaya lord - kumbaya ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxguyinstpaul Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 The press conference was put on by USA hockey, not Kessel. They made him do it because it was a big day for the U.S. junior program. If it was up to Kessel, it would not have happened. He never said anything bad about UW. The fact that you think he doesn't pass the puck is laughable. A cancer? Are you serious? From day one all he wanted to do was fit in with his teammates. He might be the most humble kid on the team and he is very well liked by the other players. He hates any individual attention he gets by all accounts of people in the program. What bothers me the most are these ridiculous misconceptions about Kessel being a cocky, selfish, pre ma donna. He's actually quite the opposite. Whats the name of that bar the Goofs use for recruiting again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagard Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 1. I have had the pleasure of meeting The Triouxper and he is about as knowledgeable of a hockey fan as I have ever met. When he speaks, many people listen. He spoke highly of Oshie before most of us had nary of clue of who Oshie was. This is why I suspect Triouxper has a little more reguard for Kessel then he lets on. While he isn't anywhere near the player Oshie is, Kessel is in the way Lucia plays him is a big help for the Gophers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Not sure who is or isn't an expert, but in my not so expert opinion Kessel wins the award. Is that a slight of Oshie? Heck no - Oshie's had a great year and has an even brighter future ahead of him. Anyone that wouldn't accept either player on to their team probably isn't being very honest with themselves. Both sets of fans should be proud. About my only source of argument is that I think it's sad some people find it so necessary to try and tear down another player. If you think Oshie deserves the award, explain why he does instead of ripping into Kessel as if he's the anti-Christ. I hated it when some Gopher fans went after Parise without legitimate reason, hated when others went after Vanek and I'll continue to hate it no matter the player. Kessel passes like nobody's business, plays on a line that is not stacked with upper-classmen, has earned a lot of points in conference and imho makes those around him better. Nobody here no matter their connections has any valid reason to question his heart or determination and no one has ever produced any reason to believe he's a cancer. Celebrate your own successes instead of trying to ruin everyone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZSIOUX Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Not sure who is or isn't an expert, but in my not so expert opinion Kessel wins the award. Is that a slight of Oshie? Heck no - Oshie's had a great year and has an even brighter future ahead of him. Anyone that wouldn't accept either player on to their team probably isn't being very honest with themselves. Both sets of fans should be proud. About my only source of argument is that I think it's sad some people find it so necessary to try and tear down another player. If you think Oshie deserves the award, explain why he does instead of ripping into Kessel as if he's the anti-Christ. I hated it when some Gopher fans went after Parise without legitimate reason, hated when others went after Vanek and I'll continue to hate it no matter the player. Kessel passes like nobody's business, plays on a line that is not stacked with upper-classmen, has earned a lot of points in conference and imho makes those around him better. Nobody here no matter their connections has any valid reason to question his heart or determination and no one has ever produced any reason to believe he's a cancer. Celebrate your own successes instead of trying to ruin everyone else's. people can say whatever they feel like...let me remind you this is a sioux board so there will probably be ripping of kessel..so deal with it...you know better, you are a frequent poster i could care less about kessel because he is not on my team just as i could care less about many other players that the sioux face every year. is he a good player? yes in my eyes but not even close to great yet. oshie is good as well and either one could get the award to me. stats are a great measuring stick but not everything. that saying i believe kessel will win the award but not hands down unless the voters have been living in a gutter. i know one thing, i will take the sioux freshman crop over the gophers..for what reason you ask?? really no resaon except i cant stand the grimey dirty rodents bring it on to the ralph!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five-HoleFrenzy Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 people can say whatever they feel like...let me remind you this is a sioux board so there will probably be ripping of kessel..so deal with it...you know better, you are a frequent poster i could care less about kessel because he is not on my team just as i could care less about many other players that the sioux face every year. is he a good player? yes in my eyes but not even close to great yet. oshie is good as well and either one could get the award to me. stats are a great measuring stick but not everything. that saying i believe kessel will win the award but not hands down unless the voters have been living in a gutter. i know one thing, i will take the sioux freshman crop over the gophers..for what reason you ask?? really no resaon except i cant stand the grimey dirty rodents bring it on to the ralph!! Agreed that Kessel is fair game on a Sioux message board but thetriouxper took it to another level when called on his opinion. I'm working on the respect thing here as an opposing fan but that is probably going out the window with my opinion that it was uncalled for to personally attack 3 other Sioux posters. Not cool to pull the idiot card and then to top it all off, to claim that said poster will never attain a certain mystical "level". Some may say they know him and respect him but I don't see how those posts are worthy of respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I think the one stat that voters need to look at is Kessel's goals 5x5. I thought it was now at 3, but Walsh said it was one. I think a lot of us missed Walsh's comment on what Woog said, which was that many of Kessels assists haven't come from passing, but from rebounds off of goalies. Now where Lee looks for that type of pass/shot, I don't see Kessel doing that in the games I've seen. What's more important/better? More goals or points on PP or more on even strength? I like the even strength, but I think teams defend Kessel more than Oshie so maybe that isn't a fair stat either. Then again, I don't think Oshie spends near the time on the PP that Kessel does. So maybe eveything just cancels itself out and you vote for who you think is better. Here's why I would vote for Oshie. The guy checks people to the ice. WHEN CARRYING THE PUCK! Also, the Sioux NEED a guy like Kessel on the PP. Who votes for the award? Media? Coaches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 people can say whatever they feel like...let me remind you this is a sioux board so there will probably be ripping of kessel..so deal with it...you know better, you are a frequent poster Yes, "people can say whatever they feel like" but I notice you didn't direct this sort of comment towards at least two Sioux fans that said the same thing as I. And I did deal with it - by giving my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZSIOUX Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Yes, "people can say whatever they feel like" but I notice you didn't direct this sort of comment towards at least two Sioux fans that said the same thing as I. And I did deal with it - by giving my opinion. i hear ya... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXELEVENS Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Lets just agree to disagree fighting about whos got a bigger johnson would be about the same as whats going on around here.When the Parise vs Vanak was going on it was almost as bad,both great players,different styles just like the Sioux and the Gophers.Oshie would have done just fine in the Gophers camp and Kessel would have done fine in the Siouxs(after some defensive training ,just kidding) these fights will be going on as long as people root for different teams.In 87 it was Hrkac vs Millen good thing there was no message boards back then People need to lighten up on both sides, so what if someone on a different team win ROY. We have won it before and probably will win it again,just because you or you see players a different way your opinion is yours don't expect other people to agree all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7NationalTitles Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 Interesting stat I just looked up. Kessel has 33 league points from what I can tell (12 G, 21 A) and Oshie has 24 league points (13G, 11A) (USCHO has 12 league goals for Oshie but I counted 13 from league games. I may have counted wrong but didn't want to take the time to find the difference). But if you throw out 4 games for Kessel against Anchorage and two games for Oshie, the stats look like this for league games. Kessel 22 points (10G, 12A) and Oshie with 23 points (12G, 11A). Oshie overall appears to be a better two-way player and meant more to his team's success than Kessel did to his team's overall success. The Gophers would have been good this year with or without Kessel (definitely top three in the league) but ND would very likely be playing on the road for the first round without the play of Oshie. I'm hoping some of the voters will analyze not only the stats a little closer but also the intangibles to the team and overall two-way play....and even overall play without the man advantage. Maybe the voting can be closer than what we think and a potential upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckysieve Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Interesting stat I just looked up. Kessel has 33 league points from what I can tell (12 G, 21 A) and Oshie has 24 league points (13G, 11A) (USCHO has 12 league goals for Oshie but I counted 13 from league games. I may have counted wrong but didn't want to take the time to find the difference). But if you throw out 4 games for Kessel against Anchorage and two games for Oshie, the stats look like this for league games. Kessel 22 points (10G, 12A) and Oshie with 23 points (12G, 11A). Oshie overall appears to be a better two-way player and meant more to his team's success than Kessel did to his team's overall success. The Gophers would have been good this year with or without Kessel (definitely top three in the league) but ND would very likely be playing on the road for the first round without the play of Oshie. I'm hoping some of the voters will analyze not only the stats a little closer but also the intangibles to the team and overall two-way play....and even overall play without the man advantage. Maybe the voting can be closer than what we think and a potential upset. I don't like the argument of throwing out games and then seeing what the numbers say, but I get what you're saying. Oshie is VERY worthy of the award. I loved him during the world juniors, he doesn't stop moving and he draws more penalties than any forward in the leaugue. But I've watched Kessel play every game this year(with the exception of @Alaska)and he's also impressive every game. Kessel averages about 1.27 pts. per game and I believe Oshie is around .97. Not a huge difference, but I'm POSITIVE that Kessel has recieved more defensive attention than Oshie has. I think Kessel deseves the award because he's the leading scoring freshman in the country and I think we can all agree that he had to deal with more pressure than any other freshman who's entered college in quite some time(including Parise and Vanek). USA hockey litterally said he might be the best american born hockey player of all time. He also spurned his hometown Badgers too play for their arch rival, not an easy thing to do. If we're talking about intangibles like you say we should(and I agree) then I think we should also look at what Kessel has had to deal with. Both are great. Kessel's faster, Oshie's grittier. Oshie's got more goals, Kessel's got more assists. Kessel's a better offensive player, Oshie's a better defensive player. Who ever wins it is deserving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dropTHEgloves Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 This arguement is like splitting hairs... both players are phenomonal talents but play totally different styles. Oshie is a hard nosed type Sioux player and Kessel is a more Finesse type Gopher player and that is why there is so many varying types of opinions to this question. I think it all depends on the type of player you like to watch. While I love pretty goals, Oshie gives you the best of both worlds. Phenomonal hands, killer shot, great two way game, timely backchecks, and best of all... pays for the admission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 people can say whatever they feel like...let me remind you this is a sioux board so there will probably be ripping of kessel..so deal with it...you know better, you are a frequent poster i could care less about kessel because he is not on my team just as i could care less about many other players that the sioux face every year. is he a good player? yes in my eyes but not even close to great yet. oshie is good as well and either one could get the award to me. stats are a great measuring stick but not everything. that saying i believe kessel will win the award but not hands down unless the voters have been living in a gutter. i know one thing, i will take the sioux freshman crop over the gophers..for what reason you ask?? really no resaon except i cant stand the grimey dirty rodents bring it on to the ralph!! Great Post, I think Oshie is just as good as Kessel. Oshie also has scored more points, but Kessel was annointed the chosen one at the begining of the season so they aren't going to change their mind now. I think Oshie means more to his team than Kessel. Also, in the Friday game against UMD I thought Phil was invisible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxdonyms Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 USA hockey litterally said he might be the best american born hockey player of all time. I can't believe they would choose Kessel over Mike Madonna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Great Post, I think Oshie is just as good as Kessel. Oshie also has scored more points... Kessel has more points for the season and in conference. I'm hoping some of the voters will analyze not only the stats a little closer but also the intangibles to the team and overall two-way play....and even overall play without the man advantage. Maybe the voting can be closer than what we think and a potential upset. 1. The only people seemingly arguing Kessel doesn't backcheck are Sioux fans. 2. The ROY award isn't for most valuable rookie but rather for the most outstaning rookie and in conference alone he's done more - total points and points per game. 3. Kessel might be surrounded by talent, but: 3a. The Gophers are just as young as UND. 3b. Kessel plays on the third line with another freshman and a sophomore. 3c. Kessel does shoot a lot but he passes like nobody I've seen a long time - this immediately makes those around him better. Oshie might end up being the better player long term, college and pros. He might be every bit as good as Kessel and in fact is a very, very good player. He's just not going to win ROY and he shouldn't win it. I fully understand that at a UND site the above will be found quite unpopular, but I haven't slammed anyone nor criticized anyone. I've said quite clearly Oshie is a great player, but if you sit back and look at all the angles, Kessel deserves ROY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farce poobah Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I just think a gifted scoring forward should get more than 7 points even strength** over the course of the WCHA season. In the other 24 games**, that's all Phil got. http://www.uscho.com/stats/gamebygame.php?...52006&details=1 Oshie, 13 in 26 games**. Toews, 13 in 26 games**. I think the ROTY of the year should be an effective 2-way player not just a powerplay specialist. Oshie and Toews qualify, Kessel doesn't. ** ex-cherry picking vs UAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I just think a gifted scoring forward should get more than 7 points even strength** Great - then start a campaign and get the rest of the hockey world outside of Grand Forks to agree with you. The fact is, Kessel produced more than Oshie while playing on the 3rd line, lined up with two underclassmen, on a team that is just as young as Oshie, in the same league against virtually the same schedule. That Kessel should have done more (or that it matters when the points were amassed) I suppose is why there are boards like this for us to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I like Oshie as much as anyone, but to think he should or will win the ROY over Kessel makes us look thickheaded and obsessed with everything-Gopher. Can you imagine what the reaction on this board would be, under any scenario, if we had a forward with substantially more league points and overall points over the Gopher forward, but they gave the award to the Gopher forward? These awards are largely based on points. That's the way it's always been and the way it will continue to be. Kessel deserves to win and will win the award. So what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Slap Shot- I'm not going to argue Oshie vs. Kessel vs. Toews. I have already stated that Kessel will win the award. It's not all that important to me. What I will argue is your statement that UMN is just as young as UND. I haven't measured up the average age, but I sincerely doubt the accuracy of that statement. How many freshmen do you dress each night? I don't know if there are any teams in the Nation other than BC and UMD that dress more freshmen. Therefore, I would argue that UND is infact much younger than UMN. I also think it would be nice if UND could afford to only dress one freshman defenseman a night like UMN does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I haven't measured up the average age, but I sincerely doubt the accuracy of that statement. Until you do perhaps you shouldn't argue otherwise. I've seen the figure and the difference in average age for these two teams is about a few months at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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