WCHA ROY

[7NationalTitles]

Haven't seen the topic posted yet or the item discussed, but with only two weeks left before the Final Five, is it a forgone conclusion that Kessel wins the WCHA ROY or does Oshie have an outside chance at it? I don't know who does the voting (just coaches or media as well).

When looking at the stats it breaks down as follows:

Kessel has played in 32 games with 14 goals and 28 assists for a total of 42 points (1.31 points per game) while Oshie has played in 34 games 19 goals and 15 assists for a total of 34 points (1.00 points per game). Kessell has 33 league points (12 g and 21 a) while Oshie has 22 league points (12 g and 10 a). Kessel also has a lot more experienced and high-scoring upperclassmen playing with him and has good passing skills hence the high number of assists. Oshie has been an integral part to UND's season so far. Going into the season I thought it would be between Kessel and Toews although I still think Toews is a better overall player at this point; Oshie has been better than expected he would be this soon into his career.

Personally I think Kessel has the inside track going into the last two weeks based on his stats and the Gophers winning the McNaughton but I'm wondering what the rest of you think. Does Oshie have a chance at it? Points isn't necessarily the only determining factor since a couple years ago Vanek did win with less overall total points than Parise. But I think Kessel and Oshie will be one and two in the voting.

Sorry if this has been discussed previously. And I'm not trying to start a flame war over this. I'm looking for some discussion over it and other fans thoughts.

[GBpakrzz]

Oshie has done very well for us. However, Kessel has simply been better this season and should win this one going away.

On a side note, I work with some dyed in wool UW Badger fans. They were mortified when Kessel snubbed Bucky and went to play with his buddies in the Twin Cities. I enjoyed that greatly.

[PCM]

Personally I think Kessel has the inside track going into the last two weeks based on his stats and the Gophers winning the McNaughton but I'm wondering what the rest of you think. Does Oshie have a chance at it?

I think Kessel will get WCHA Rookie of the Year, partly because of the season that Minnesota has had. However, if I had to chose between Oshie and Kessel for my team, I'd take Oshie in a heartbeat.

[Diggler]

If I had to choose, I'd shoot the guy making me choose and take both.

[PCM]

If I had to choose, I'd shoot the guy making me choose and take both.

You're so indecisive.

[Jackson]

Just a note, Kessel spends the majority of his time on a line with Wheeler (Freshman) and Gordon (Sophmore). He does however appear on the number one power play unit.

[SiouxMeNow]

Just a note, Kessel spends the majority of his time on a line with Wheeler (Freshman) and Gordon (Sophmore). He does however appear on the number one power play unit.

Kessel was "the annointed" so he'll win it - GREAT! Before the season, I hoped Toews would give him a run for his money (BUT I'll take him right now). TJ has put up great numbers but he won't win it either (BUT I'll take him right now too! ) The ROTY is overrated anyway...

[Sioux_Hab-it]

Unlike the Hobey, for the ROY everyone loves the big offensive numbers and don't consider the intangibles such as backchecking, leadership and what the ROY brings to the community. We have discussed this issue often enough and know that the Sioux are fortunate enough to have the two top multi-dimensional Freshmen.

[redwing77]

Just a note, Kessel spends the majority of his time on a line with Wheeler (Freshman) and Gordon (Sophmore). He does however appear on the number one power play unit.

How many of Kessel's points come on the power play?

In any case, I think Kessel's the ROTY. I would love it if Oshie won, but I just can't see Kessel NOT getting the award.

[siouxnami]

Both players have been very good. I think Oshie getting points is far more difficult just given the team around him. Kessel has been good, but disappointing at the same time, the reality is that his draft stock is falling. Both players probably deserve it, Kessel will likely get it because of the team around him.

[dagies]

Again, I think we have a situation where there are 2 or 3 top candidates who have outdistanced themselves from their peers. Arguments can be made for those top couple on who should be the final choice. I'd love to see Oshie or even Toews win but there's no way to dispute that Kessel's points in conference are 50% greater than Oshie's based on 7NT's post. Points scored are a more objective measure than whether someone backchecks or plays "both ends" or not. And how many of us have watched Kessel of late to know how much worse he does than Oshie or Toews in that respect? How do you balance 10 more assists vs. a deficiency in his own end? Is he so bad that Oshie can make up for 10 assists? Or is Oshie so good in other aspects of the game that he could make up a 15 assists deficit? Does Kessel do anything that Oshie does not?

I'm not making the case that Kessel SHOULD win over Oshie, but if he does, I find it hard to be critical of the choice as well. He's had a very good season, and is a worthy candidate.

Like others have said, I don't know that we would trade our guys for Kessel, but that doesn't mean he's not a deserving player too.

[The Sicatoka]

Let Kessel have the award for "best first year."

I'd rather have Oshie or Toews win the award for "best college career" instead.

[siouxnami]

Again, I think we have a situation where there are 2 or 3 top candidates who have outdistanced themselves from their peers. Arguments can be made for those top couple on who should be the final choice. I'd love to see Oshie or even Toews win but there's no way to dispute that Kessel's points in conference are 50% greater than Oshie's based on 7NT's post. Points scored are a more objective measure than whether someone backchecks or plays "both ends" or not. And how many of us have watched Kessel of late to know how much worse he does than Oshie or Toews in that respect? How do you balance 10 more assists vs. a deficiency in his own end? Is he so bad that Oshie can make up for 10 assists? Or is Oshie so good in other aspects of the game that he could make up a 15 assists deficit? Does Kessel do anything that Oshie does not?

I'm not making the case that Kessel SHOULD win over Oshie, but if he does, I find it hard to be critical of the choice as well. He's had a very good season, and is a worthy candidate.

Like others have said, I don't know that we would trade our guys for Kessel, but that doesn't mean he's not a deserving player too.

I agree, this wouldn't be Miller over Panzer...

[buckysieve]

Kessel is much better defensively than most people think. He is often on the ice for the last minute of a game with the gophers up by one goal. He's always on the pk which is something Vanek never did. Lucia stated recently how pleased he is with Kessel's overall play at both ends. I think he deserves the award with Oshie a VERY close second.

[THETRIOUXPER]

We all know who th ROTY should be. I don't care how many points a guy scores. TJ has a more complete game, period, end of story. He made phil look stupid at the WJC. TJ also has leadership qualities on the ice and in the locker room. You can see he elevates other's around him. This was evident when he got knocked out of the bronze medal game with Finland. We had a lead, and Team USA's golden boy couldn't seal the deal after TJ didn't return for the third period. That alone shows the difference is huge between the two players. So TJ's stats aren't as good, can phil's numbers make up for TJ's heart, and passion for playing the game of hockey like it should be played ? Not in my mind. I say enjoy all of your "individual honors" you can garner there phil, you've already shown your true colors to all the people that really know hockey.

[southpaw]

Here's a quick overview of the points each player has gotten... i put in two sioux players because it's a sioux msg board. Points are WCHA only-

Kessel:

5v5 PP SH

Goals 3 8 1

Assists 9 11 0

---------------------------------

Total 12 19 1

Oshie:

5v5 PP SH

Goals 7 5 0

Assists 4 6 0

-----------------------------------

Total 11 11 0

Toews:

5v5 PP SH

Goals 6 6 0

Assists 4 1 0

-----------------------------------

Total 10 7 0

[I Ranger]

Kessel is much better defensively than most people think. He is often on the ice for the last minute of a game with the gophers up by one goal. He's always on the pk which is something Vanek never did. Lucia stated recently how pleased he is with Kessel's overall play at both ends. I think he deserves the award with Oshie a VERY close second.

I watch almost all of Minny's games and to say that Kessel is ALWAYS ON THE PK is a bit of an overstatement. I rarely see him out there killing penalties and he definitely wouldn't be considered one of the top four forward penalty killers on the Goofs so I am a little confused at where you come up with the ALWAYS ON THE PK. I do agree that his defensive game isn't as big of a weakness as Vanek's was but I don't buy your argument that he always kills penalties.

[Bear Man]

Kessel has as many power play points in the conference as Oshie does overall. In addition, Kessel has almost double the points as Oshie in the conference on the power play. This is a big deal - since we agree the WCHA is the best conference in the country. If most of Kessels points came from non conference foes we'd all be talking about the "inferior" and "easy" competition that allowed him to get all these points.

Kessel has racked up 89% of his goals, 73% of his assists, or 79% of his power play points in the conference. By contrast Oshie is 44% of his goals, 60% of his assists, or 53% of his power play points in the conference. Almost half of Oshie's points are from non conference games.

Oshie has been awesome - no one can deny Oshie's importance to our team and power play points aren't everything - but these number comparisons will be hard to overcome. In addition, it is stupid to blame Kessel for the USA's lack of success at the juniors - or for that matter imply that he doesn't play with heart and passion, lacks leadership qualities - How do you know ?

BTW - - what true colors has he shown ?

Whatdaya say we turn this into another Kessel bashing session ?

[Walsh Hall]

Just a correction on Kessel's Goals in conference.

PS -1

SH -1

4 x 4 - 1

5 x 5 - 1

PP - 8

Only 1 5 x 5 goal on the year

Also, against the top six teams he has 15 points in 16 games with no even strength goals, 6 pp assists, and 3 even strength assistes.

Top players are supposed to clean up against lower competition, and Kessel certainly has. In the end Kessel will win the ROY in a landslide.

- - Vanek was always on the ice with one minute left and the gophers up by a goal as well, empty net...

[THETRIOUXPER]

Kessel has as many power play points in the conference as Oshie does overall. In addition, Kessel has almost double the points as Oshie in the conference on the power play. This is a big deal - since we agree the WCHA is the best conference in the country. If most of Kessels points came from non conference foes we'd all be talking about the "inferior" and "easy" competition that allowed him to get all these points.

Kessel has racked up 89% of his goals, 73% of his assists, or 79% of his power play points in the conference. By contrast Oshie is 44% of his goals, 60% of his assists, or 53% of his power play points in the conference. Almost half of Oshie's points are from non conference games.

Oshie has been awesome - no one can deny Oshie's importance to our team and power play points aren't everything - but these number comparisons will be hard to overcome. In addition, it is stupid to blame Kessel for the USA's lack of success at the juniors - or for that matter imply that he doesn't play with heart and passion, lacks leadership qualities - How do you know ?

BTW - - what true colors has he shown ?

Whatdaya say we turn this into another Kessel bashing session ?

This is a discussion of who might win ROTY, Oshie and kessel are both candidates, there are some people here that are not convinced kessel is the best person for that award, aside from all of his stats. As I have said before bearman, it's obvious to me that you have limited hockey knowledge as you base most of your opinions on numbers. I'm sorry you can't get past that and pick up the other little nuances that the game offers, other than scoring goals. As far as kessel's performance in the WJC, I'm not the only one who was dissapointed. You obviously didn't see many of the games. Or don't watch closely enough to see what's going on. In any case I hope phil wins it so you are happy that his stats will back up everything you say, then you can tell me how wrong I am and that I should grow up, again.

[siouxhater]

Kessel has been good, but disappointing at the same time, the reality is that his draft stock is falling. Both players probably deserve it, Kessel will likely get it because of the team around him.

Disappointing? 42 points in 32 games (1.31 pts/game) is disappointing? Toews has been more disappointing than Kessell.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Disappointing? 42 points in 32 games (1.31 pts/game) is disappointing? Toews has been more disappointing than Kessell.

But yet according to the pro's, and by that I mean scouts, ect. Toews stock has either risen or stayed where it was and phil's, well let's just reiterate here, phil's true colors have shown, and it hasn't gone unnoticed.

[brianvf]

Kessel will win the WCHA ROTY, and he deserves it. He has shown that he is a great player.

He came in with higher expectations than what Parise did, but I don't think that he will match Parise's numbers from his frosh year (although he will come close).

All in all, I am very pleased with how our freshmen class has performed. Hakstol has shown that he is one of the best recruiters in the collegiate ranks in his two years here. I very much look forward to watching these kids play next season, as the defense will have another year of experience, confidence, and physical maturity (which will also lead to more offense from them). Toews and Oshie will be a force next season, and I just hope that a few 'flight risks' stick around for another season (Zajac, Stafford, Smaby, etc), as the Sioux will have a very talented team.

[cavedurtis]

I think it is difficult to be objective over a subjective award, although Dagies is as close as I've seen. If Oshie and Kessell were on each others teams Gopher fans would be harping about two-way play and Sioux fans would be saying to just look at the numbers. They are both great players having very good years. I don't care who wins ROTY, just who wins April 8th.

[buckysieve]

But yet according to the pro's, and by that I mean scouts, ect. Toews stock has either risen or stayed where it was and phil's, well let's just reiterate here, phil's true colors have shown, and it hasn't gone unnoticed.

I think it's you whose true colors have shown. No matter what Kessel does you would obviously give him no credit. Other Sioux fans have given sincere level headed responses to the question, while you just sound bitter and mean spirited. They're both great players, probably the two best freshman in the country and are both worthy of the award. At this point I think Kessel has been the slightly better player of the two but not by much.