UND92,96 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Herbst made the list of finalist. Besides Herbst and his family and friends, does anybody in his or her right mind really think he would be a better head coach than Smith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDog Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Can someone explain to me what the hell is going on? CRAIG SMITH is not a FINALIST? And Randall Herbst is? Tell me this isn't true. And who is Ralston? I really hope this is all just a bunch of B.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Can someone explain to me what the hell is going on? CRAIG SMITH is not a FINALIST? And Randall Herbst is? Tell me this isn't true. And who is Ralston? I really hope this is all just a bunch of B.S. If this is true, my confidence in our leadership is pretty well shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodstar Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Still sad... If this is true, my confidence in our leadership is pretty well shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Where is this info coming from? Has the list been published? If not, how do we know who is or is not on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Walrus Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Where is this info coming from? Has the list been published? If not, how do we know who is or is not on it? Rumors and or Leaks....take your choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Rumors and or Leaks....take your choice A rumor is usually just that!! A leak usually has merit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 A rumor is usually just that!! A leak usually has merit! Probably comes from the same place where you heard Herbst was offered the job and then later retracted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I think Bunning & Roebuck will still make a good hire from the finalist group. But the lady is really making it hard on local candidates, but she made sure that someone from Illinois State made the group, that is where she graduated from. It's a shame she had to use her power and "RULES" on such a high profile and important position. If we are going Division I (which I still think we are), Ralston / Buning have to impress upon a prospective conference that we are serious about men's basketball. If we hired Craig Smith, who probably is a great coach, conferences would view an NAIA DII coach as a major black mark against us until that coach has had several years under his belt. The resume of our head basketball coach has to have (a) at least some Division I experience, or (b) a whole lot of DII head coaching experience. If we hired an NAIA or JC coach, we'd instantly lose credibility and be viewed as a school with no commitment to a DI men's basketball program. It's not fair, but it's reality. Prospective conferences don't care about the pedigree of our volleyball coach, but men's basketball is a whole other issue. That said, there absolutely needs to be a local coach (Smith) on the staff that knows the area and later could potentially step into the top job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Walrus Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Just a uneducated guess.... The opening has attracted a number of Division I assistants, including Michael Jaskulski of Florida State, Brian Jones of Iowa, Marty Gillespie of Rice, Chris Hollender of Army, Mark Morefield of Baylor, and Tony Fuller of Stanford. the above 6...add John Fitzpatrick, Randall Herbst, Mark Johnson, Wild card picks... Boushee, Rico, Smith... (choose one) those are my ten.....just a guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 If we are going Division I (which I still think we are), Ralston / Buning have to impress upon a prospective conference that we are serious about men's basketball. If we hired Craig Smith, who probably is a great coach, conferences would view an NAIA DII coach as a major black mark against us. The resume of our head basketball coach has to have (a) at least some Division I experience, or (b) a whole lot of DII head coaching experience. If we hired an NAIA or JC coach, we'd instantly lose credibility and be viewed as a school with no commitment to a DI men's basketball program. It's not fair, but it's reality. Prospective conferences don't care about the pedigree of our volleyball coach, but men's basketball is a whole other issue. That said, there absolutely needs to be a local coach (Smith) on the staff that knows the area and later could potentially step into the top job. My feeling is that Ralston should not have been on this committee. I would have preferred Lennon. It's not like she's been around for very long, and her connections and/or expertise, to the extent she has any, didn't exactly help us out in hiring a volleyball coach. Secondly, if Smith's perceived lack of experience was too big of a strike against him, then Herbst had better not be a finalist, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 My feeling is that Ralston should not have been on this committee. I would have preferred Lennon. No argument there. Secondly, if Smith's perceived lack of experience was too big of a strike against him, then Herbst had better not be a finalist, either. That may be precisely why, if an offer was given, it was later pulled (after someone higher up found out). IMO, Herbst has to be made a finalist out of respect for his years of contribution and because of that rumored event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDog Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 If we are going Division I (which I still think we are), Ralston / Buning have to impress upon a prospective conference that we are serious about men's basketball. If we hired Craig Smith, who probably is a great coach, conferences would view an NAIA DII coach as a major black mark against us until that coach has had several years under his belt. The resume of our head basketball coach has to have (a) at least some Division I experience, or (b) a whole lot of DII head coaching experience. If we hired an NAIA or JC coach, we'd instantly lose credibility and be viewed as a school with no commitment to a DI men's basketball program. It's not fair, but it's reality. Prospective conferences don't care about the pedigree of our volleyball coach, but men's basketball is a whole other issue. That said, there absolutely needs to be a local coach (Smith) on the staff that knows the area and later could potentially step into the top job. Two things: 1. Where do you think Tim Miles was before he went to soon-to-be Division 1 NDSU? 2. Craig Smith is not, I repeat, IS NOT going to come to UND as an assistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Two things: 1. Where do you think Tim Miles was before he went to soon-to-be Division 1 NDSU? 2. Craig Smith is not, I repeat, IS NOT going to come to UND as an assistant. 1. He was at Southwest Minnesota St, as a DII head coach. (Did NDSU hire him out of Mayville? No.) BTW, is NDSU in a conference right now? That is no knock on Tim Miles, but it was really only the win against Wisconsin that put him on the map. Tim Miles is now a major reason NDSU will likely get in a conference for the 2008-9 season. 2. Even if it was for a significant pay increase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Trivia: Which member of UND's administration has the most time as a DI coach and DI administrator? Answer: 16 years as a DI head coach; 6 years as an administrator Folks, I wasn't happy with the process of how Hakstol was hired. That turned out OK. Yeah, it may look goofy right now from the observer's POV, but you have to trust the people hired to do the job (until they prove why not to). I say let's let this play out a bit more before we get the pitchforks and torches out and storm Hyslop: Let's see who all made first cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Trivia: Which member of UND's administration has the most time as a DI coach and DI administrator? Answer: 16 years as a DI head coach; 6 years as an administrator Folks, I wasn't happy with the process of how Hakstol was hired. That turned out OK. Yeah, it may look goofy right now from the observer's POV, but you have to trust the people hired to do the job (until they prove why not to). I say let's let this play out a bit more before we get the pitchforks and torches out and storm Hyslop: Let's see who all made first cut. Does she have any experience hiring basketball coaches? I'm skeptical that she does, or for that matter, that she knows much about the game. Of the three members of the committee, she should be the one taking a backseat to the other two, because ultimately, it's Buning's show, and Roebuck knows a lot more about what it takes to be a basketball coach than she does. I just hope that we don't have a Chris Voelz type egomaniac on our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDog Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 1. He was at Southwest Minnesota St, as a DII head coach. (Did NDSU hire him out of Mayville? No.) BTW, is NDSU in a conference right now? That is no knock on Tim Miles, but it was really only the win against Wisconsin that put him on the map. Tim Miles is now a major reason NDSU will likely get in a conference for the 2008-9 season. 2. Even if it was for a significant pay increase? 1. You might want to go back to your original post where you said something to the effect "a whole lot of division II experience". My point is, that Miles DID NOT have "a whole lot of division II experience"....If Craig Smith is not a finalist for this job, then UND has pissed this opportunity done its collective legs. I hope and pray that Mayville St. is on UND's schedule again next year. 2. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 1. You might want to go back to your original post where you said something to the effect "a whole lot of division II experience". My point is, that Miles DID NOT have "a whole lot of division II experience"....If Craig Smith is not a finalist for this job, then UND has pissed this opportunity done its collective legs. I hope and pray that Mayville St. is on UND's schedule again next year. Miles was at Southwest for four years, had winning seasons all four years, and led the team to the Elite Eight in 2001. I think that is a decent amount of D2 experience. I'm all for Smith being a finalist, but there is no doubt that Miles was a more experienced coach when he was hired at NDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I tend to agree with star2city and the Sicatoka. I also was in the Smith camp, basically because of his connection to Tim Miles. But he is a NAIA coach with what, 2 years as a head coach? Even if DI is not on the horizon, the administration is still trying to hire a head coach for one of the most prominent universities in Division II. Miles started at an NAIA, then went to a low-tier DII school, then went to a prominent DII school, then was courted by a mid-major DI school. It's a process. I think if Smith were offered the job of Associate Head Coach at UND, he'd be foolish not to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farce poobah Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Does she have any experience hiring basketball coaches? I'm skeptical that she does, or for that matter, that she knows much about the game. Of the three members of the committee, she should be the one taking a backseat to the other two, because ultimately, it's Buning's show, and Roebuck knows a lot more about what it takes to be a basketball coach than she does. I just hope that we don't have a Chris Voelz type egomaniac on our hands. Lot of good points mentioned above. Sic, thanks for the link on Ralston. Having done a lot of hiring (not basketball coaches) I've been part of a committee hiring process, and I apologize to those of you for which this is obvious, but its worth mentioning for those that haven't. Its common in committees for each member to assess the candidate in his/her area of expertise. For example (and this is pure speculation), that Ralston will assess each candidates history and qualifications in meeting NCAA compliance standards. And, again hypothetically, Roebuck may assess knowledge of basketball strategy, tactics, etc. (It seems doubtful that a VB coach would assess BB knowledge.) And each member of a committee will probably also assess one or more of the fundamental qualities needed to succeed in the position - leadership, motivational skills, communication skills, etc etc. If the process is worked properly, it avoids the syndrome where one person falls in love with a candidate. A committee process has a couple other invisible advantages. First, it builds consensus across the department, helping to minimize any friction among those who may have differing opinions. Second, it gives the newcomer the stamp of approval, so that when he/she goes to Twamley or meets with other U staffers, they get more clout... All of which helps the new person become effective quickly. Again, sorry if this is obvious but it seemed worth mentioning. Bottom line, let's let the process work ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the747kid Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I can't believe people aren't outraged by the rumors that Craig Smith isn't going to have a chance to be the next head coach at UND... If these rumors are true, what the heck is everbody thinking??? This is a guy that turned around one of the worst teams in the country and turned it into a top 10 team in the country... In respect to all the Division II and Division I talk... He was an assistant at NDSU for three years, including their transition period into Division I... He was the guy that helped recruit the players who beat Wisconsin... Don't ever look past the fact that he took a 1-27 team to a national power... They made it to a national tournament the year after they were 1-27... THEN they made it to the Elite Eight with a team that could have been in the top half of the NCC... AND THEY WERE A NAIA SCHOOL WITH HALF THE SCHOLARSHIP MONEY AND A MINIMAL RECRUITING BUDGET (in Mayville, the smallest four-year school in the state, no offense to Mayville)!!! Think of what he could do for UND... If he can't get an interview at UND it is absolutely ridiculous... This is a guy who will be an unbelievable coach at any level... If UND passes up on Craig Smith they should be ashamed of themselves... He will make UND a national power, and that is the bottom line... As a Fighting Sioux fan it is an EMBARRASMENT to say if a guy doesn't have FIVE years of NCAA experience he can't get the opportunity to get the job... NOT EVEN AN OPPORTUNITY?!?!?!... Craig Smith has been in the NCAA as a coach for four years... He made it to the Elite Eight of the NCAA II National Tournament with Northern State... He has propelled MAYVILLE STATE to a National Tournament for the past two years (taking over a 1-27 team)... MAYVILLE STATE is now a national power for as long as he is there... If he can do this at MAYVILLE STATE, he can turn UND into one of the best teams IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY... Maybe it's true... He needs one more year to be a valid candidate... But in my view that is ENORMOUSLY STUPID... Craig Smith should get an interview... That is the bottome line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxhoops Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I agree with flyboy... Craig Smith is the right man for the job... I can't believe these rumors... How can you not give Craig Smith a chance for the UND job.... This is nuts... We all know he is the guy... Screw all of this DI and DII crap... If you want a guy to give our program the best possible chance to get to the top... Craig Smith is the right guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Lot of good points mentioned above. Sic, thanks for the link on Ralston. Having done a lot of hiring (not basketball coaches) I've been part of a committee hiring process, and I apologize to those of you for which this is obvious, but its worth mentioning for those that haven't. Its common in committees for each member to assess the candidate in his/her area of expertise. For example (and this is pure speculation), that Ralston will assess each candidates history and qualifications in meeting NCAA compliance standards. And, again hypothetically, Roebuck may assess knowledge of basketball strategy, tactics, etc. (It seems doubtful that a VB coach would assess BB knowledge.) And each member of a committee will probably also assess one or more of the fundamental qualities needed to succeed in the position - leadership, motivational skills, communication skills, etc etc. If the process is worked properly, it avoids the syndrome where one person falls in love with a candidate. A committee process has a couple other invisible advantages. First, it builds consensus across the department, helping to minimize any friction among those who may have differing opinions. Second, it gives the newcomer the stamp of approval, so that when he/she goes to Twamley or meets with other U staffers, they get more clout... All of which helps the new person become effective quickly. Again, sorry if this is obvious but it seemed worth mentioning. Bottom line, let's let the process work ... I brought up the fact that I doubt Ralston has any experience hiring a basketball coach, or knows much about basketball, because while those factors would not necessarily preclude a person from being on the committee, they do call into question why she's on the committee instead of a highly-respected coach like Dale Lennon, who could also offer the viewpoint of a coach from a different sport, and who also is somebody I trust to do the right thing for UND. Can anybody honestly say that they know enough about Ralston to say they have more faith in her than Lennon (or another longtime UND coach)? I don't recall Ralston's predecessor Kathy McCann being prominently involved in hiring coaches, at least in high profile sports, but perhaps I just never heard about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I agree that Smith should certainly be considered. He has a great track record, has recruited the Upper Midwest, is a UND grad, etc. However, unless I am interviewing all of the top candidates, I certainly do not believe that I can make any statement regarding who should get the job. There may be a candidate, hell, there may be 10 candidates better than Smith OR he may be the best. Unless I was part of the interview process, I have no idea who the best man for the job is. AND that is what we need, the best man for the job, whoever it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I brought up the fact that I doubt Ralston has any experience hiring a basketball coach, or knows much about basketball, because while those factors would not necessarily preclude a person from being on the committee, they do call into question why she's on the committee instead of a highly-respected coach like Dale Lennon, who could also offer the viewpoint of a coach from a different sport, and who also is somebody I trust to do the right thing for UND. Can anybody honestly say that they know enough about Ralston to say they have more faith in her than Lennon (or another longtime UND coach)? I don't recall Ralston's predecessor Kathy McCann being prominently involved in hiring coaches, at least in high profile sports, but perhaps I just never heard about it. Ralston's primary job is to oversee compliance issues. I am sure she is the one handling the process administratively, doing the background checks, trying to assure that none of the top candidates have any skeletons in their closet, etc. I would very seriously doubt that she would have a "real" vote in determining the next coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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