The Sather Conundrum

[sioux24/7]

This has been in the back of my mind all year and I know we have the Next Head Coach thread but wanted to lay the situation out more. From just looking at the wins and losses, unless UND makes a run to the Summit League Tournament title game this year, it feels pretty easy to say it might be time to move on and see if the grass is greener.

Sather’s career record at UND is 83-127 which is .395. That is without removing non D1 games. Prior to UND he had a .679 winning percentage at Northern State and a .603 mark at Black Hills State. The counter argument is that he walked into a pretty good situation at NSU, which may be fair.

This year UND sits at 10-12 and 4-2 in the Summit. That is a nice turnaround after a rough non conference run and probably better than most expected. Sather is also in a contract year from everything that has been reported which makes the finish even more important.

UND just went through coaching transitions in football, hockey, women’s basketball and volleyball. Sather is the last one standing. The part that keeps this tricky is that people seem to genuinely like him and he is well respected. Greg McDermott supposedly has said that for what UND can offer, there is not a better coach. Whether UND should be able to offer more is a totally fair debate, but that is a conversation for another thread.

So the real question is what does UND need to accomplish to justify bringing Sather back. Is 9-7 in the league and at least one win in Sioux Falls enough? Is an extension coming no matter what just to keep things stable? Is it the opposite and anything short of a championship means they go in a different direction.

Here is where the case gets interesting. I think Sather is a good coach and a good representative of UND. But the record during his time here is not good enough. Even if men’s basketball is no better than the third biggest sport at UND (which is a unique dynamic compared to our peers), the program should expect more.

Roster wise, the future looks promising but also volatile. Sather has recruited plenty of talent but retaining it has been the challenge. The portal is not unique to UND so you can only lean on that excuse so much.

The amount of talent that can return next year is pretty exciting. Greyson Uelmen, AS3, Zach Kraft, Wylee Delorme, Guga and Josh Jones all play real minutes and a few feel like players who can grow into All Summit level guys. Then comes the big question. The Curtis twins. One is out for the year. The other has seen his role decrease and was not dressed last game. I think most fans assume they are gone. If they go, Anthony Smith’s relationship with them and his connection with recruit Jayden Moore becomes a huge wildcard.

Add Moore who might be UND’s highest rated incoming recruit ever and Carter Evanson and Sage Hanson who both look like they could be legit Summit players and there is something to build around. But does Sather’s status help keep this group together or does moving on send everything back into the washing machine. That is the tricky part for Bill Chaves and Erik Martinson to sort through.

So it should be a fascinating finish. A decent final record and a win or two in Sioux Falls probably gets Sather extended. A fade to a bottom half finish or a one-and-done and the decision gets harder. And if UND wants to shoot higher, now might be the window.

Either way the end of the season is going to tell us a lot.

[UND-FB-FAN]

17 minutes ago, sioux24/7 said:

Greg McDermott supposedly has said that for what UND can offer, there is not a better coach. Whether UND should be able to offer more is a totally fair debate, but that is a conversation for another thread.

A lot of very good points, but honestly, before getting paralysis by analysis, I’d say the above quoted section is the main issue …

[SIOUXFAN97]

29 minutes ago, sioux24/7 said:

This has been in the back of my mind all year and I know we have the Next Head Coach thread but wanted to lay the situation out more. From just looking at the wins and losses, unless UND makes a run to the Summit League Tournament title game this year, it feels pretty easy to say it might be time to move on and see if the grass is greener.

Sather’s career record at UND is 83-127 which is .395. That is without removing non D1 games. Prior to UND he had a .679 winning percentage at Northern State and a .603 mark at Black Hills State. The counter argument is that he walked into a pretty good situation at NSU, which may be fair.

This year UND sits at 10-12 and 4-2 in the Summit. That is a nice turnaround after a rough non conference run and probably better than most expected. Sather is also in a contract year from everything that has been reported which makes the finish even more important.

UND just went through coaching transitions in football, hockey, women’s basketball and volleyball. Sather is the last one standing. The part that keeps this tricky is that people seem to genuinely like him and he is well respected. Greg McDermott supposedly has said that for what UND can offer, there is not a better coach. Whether UND should be able to offer more is a totally fair debate, but that is a conversation for another thread.

So the real question is what does UND need to accomplish to justify bringing Sather back. Is 9-7 in the league and at least one win in Sioux Falls enough? Is an extension coming no matter what just to keep things stable? Is it the opposite and anything short of a championship means they go in a different direction.

Here is where the case gets interesting. I think Sather is a good coach and a good representative of UND. But the record during his time here is not good enough. Even if men’s basketball is no better than the third biggest sport at UND (which is a unique dynamic compared to our peers), the program should expect more.

Roster wise, the future looks promising but also volatile. Sather has recruited plenty of talent but retaining it has been the challenge. The portal is not unique to UND so you can only lean on that excuse so much.

The amount of talent that can return next year is pretty exciting. Greyson Uelmen, AS3, Zach Kraft, Wylee Delorme, Guga and Josh Jones all play real minutes and a few feel like players who can grow into All Summit level guys. Then comes the big question. The Curtis twins. One is out for the year. The other has seen his role decrease and was not dressed last game. I think most fans assume they are gone. If they go, Anthony Smith’s relationship with them and his connection with recruit Jayden Moore becomes a huge wildcard.

Add Moore who might be UND’s highest rated incoming recruit ever and Carter Evanson and Sage Hanson who both look like they could be legit Summit players and there is something to build around. But does Sather’s status help keep this group together or does moving on send everything back into the washing machine. That is the tricky part for Bill Chaves and Erik Martinson to sort through.

So it should be a fascinating finish. A decent final record and a win or two in Sioux Falls probably gets Sather extended. A fade to a bottom half finish or a one-and-done and the decision gets harder. And if UND wants to shoot higher, now might be the window.

Either way the end of the season is going to tell us a lot.

like @Long Snapper 92 said...talk to me after the two ndac games.

[NDRoots4Life]

It has never been in doubt that he is a genuinely good guy, is good for the community, and good to the players. The question becomes:
1. Is that enough in a coach at UND?
2. Can we monetarily afford different?

[sioux24/7]

6 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

like @Long Snapper 92 said...talk to me after the two ndac games.

So what does a split for you do? NDSU may be the best team in the conference, would be surprised if we get both. What if we go 0-2 there but have success otherwise?

[GoodGood]

I think 10-6 is very possible. Assuming they win the 3 remaining games against the bottom 3 teams, split with Denver, beat Omaha at home, and take 1 against ndsu or SDSU. That probably puts them around a 4th place finish. If they lose in opening round of SLT, I would say he’s done. If they win one game in SLT, then idk if it’s possible to give him a 2 year extension with a favorable buyout after a year but that’s what I’d prefer. If they make the summit league championship game then give him 2 years for sure. 

[EternalOptimist]

I wonder where Sather's salary is compared to the other Summit League coaches?  I asked AI and it only provided salaries from a couple years ago, so it wasn't much of a help.  Also, there are probably incentives within the contract, that don't get divulged.  I'll be very curious as to what happens.  I was pretty confident we would be in the bottom 4 this year. The way the Summit League is playing out, with injuries and coaching changes, I have to say, I believe I will be wrong. I would assume you would need to offer Sather at least a 2yr deal because from his perspective, I wouldn't play the year to year game, I would try and find a more secure fit? 

I lean towards moving on from him.  I believe the twins will be gone. I also think at least 3 of the 4 guys who don't play (maybe all 4 of them) will move on.  Even if A3 were to leave (and Moore doesn't come), a new coach would have a pretty good base to work. He would also have several scholarships at his disposal. A new coach may also bring a player or two with.

[UND1983]

McDermott is also very good friends with him

[Long Snapper 92]

1 hour ago, UND1983 said:

McDermott is also very good friends with him

100%. McDermott isn’t going to say anything bad about someone in his coaching tree so I’d take what he says about Sather pretty lightly. 

[gfhockey]

I think it’s more of a shot at chavez and what little he does for the basketball programs

[SIOUXFAN97]

3 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

I think it’s more of a shot at chavez and what little he does for the basketball programs

but didn't they tease "exciting news coming for the betty" couple years ago....the big surprise was seating in the parking lot?

puzzlin'

[ND-fan]

I don’t think changing coaches going to change our standing and may even we even regress further with the program. What McDermott pretty much said is fact statement of fact in men’s program and number of other programs. Facilities are sub par for division I , financial support has fallen behind the top teams even in the summit and our Nil money is pretty much nil with little hope of this changing near future. I think Sather has recruited payers that have developed into good players but we have never had financial resources to keep them past there sophomore years here for additional year to make that.run to win the conference. This was proven last year even other Summit program could allure one of our average player to them. My gage of Sather as is as coach does his team improve as season goes along this has happened each year coaching record for us is never going to look good because we’re going to be putting a new team every tear. Money speaks now in NCAA basketball if you want to winning program we are going to have find resources to compete and then judge our present coach because you need horses if can’t get them here no matter how you coach you can’t win. I think this is only get worse for small midmajor programs when players can move each year it would really help if like football redshirt season would add another year of eligibility.

[SIOUXFAN97]

so if dollar dogs (sold out in the first 3 minutes?) got an extra 1200 or so into the game on Thursday...whytf aren't they doing that for every game like the ATL model....

is it against the new "alcohols is bad mantra" to do dollar beers too?

there's soome extra cash for sather...

how about cut the staff at games from 200 to 20...there is some more $

50/50 drawings...theres more $

how about a 5 bucks for a half court shot at a progressive pot that builds all year....i'd bet we could have 40-50 people lined up to shoot their shot at halftime of each game  (including me and @Und Princess and @gfhockey and @Long Snapper 92 and @GoodGood) ...much better entertainment than the garbage they put out there right now at the half

a game at the ralph versus "non directional school"...there is more money if its marketed sold well enough

but chavez keeps going to the big and tall store isntead.

[Und Princess]

13 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

so if dollar dogs (sold out in the first 3 minutes?) got an extra 1200 or so into the game on Thursday...whytf aren't they doing that for every game like the ATL model....

is it against the new "alcohols is bad mantra" to do dollar beers too?

there's soome extra cash for sather...

how about cut the staff at games from 200 to 20...there is some more $

50/50 drawings...theres more $

how about a 5 bucks for a half court shot at a progressive pot that builds all year....i'd bet we could have 40-50 people lined up to shoot their shot at halftime of each game  (including me and @Und Princess and @gfhockey and @Long Snapper 92 and @GoodGood) ...much better entertainment than the garbage they put out there right now at the half

a game at the ralph versus "non directional school"...there is more money if its marketed sold well enough

but chavez keeps going to the big and tall store isntead.

I would love to participate in the basketball shoot at halftime if it ever happened! @SIOUXFAN97