Recruits

[NDSU grad]

If they recruit and "steal" UND recruits and these athletes don't pan out, this can help UND in the long run.

"UND recruits". You got to be kidding me.

NDSU has much less interest in the local kids compared to UND. Talent has something to do with that as does the fact that Bohl and most of his staff aren't local either.

Well, both of those statements are simply lies. I guess the only "local" people on Bohl's staff are Bradley, Laqua, Wash, Vigen, and Essler. I also think it's pretty clear Bohl and Co. have made a commitment to recruit locally.

If these athletes don't do well UND can use it to there advantage for future recruiting classes. Right now as UND stays DII they must play the waiting game on SU's advantage. Remember we are only two classes into this debate about DIAA and DII. Mertens, Kyle Belmont, Gratzek, Anderson and Vandal are going to be the test rats for this debate. If the don't succeed UND can spin it to their advantage. If they do....then UND has a tough road ahead.

Well, you're out of luck because chances are these kids will do just fine. Kyle Steffes is one of the top 15 or so RB's in I-AA. The best of the best of the local recruits will excel in I-AA.

[spfreak]

Gratzek picking SU based on his chosen major is a bunch of crap. UND has a far better Mech. engineering program than SU does. So it must have come down to pure football decisions or liking the campus/area better there.

[IowaBison]

UND has a far better Mech. engineering program than SU does.

That's quite funny and completely erroneous.

[sultan]

Over the years we have won and lost many recruiting battles with NDSU. In fact in more recent years we have won more than we have lost. They have more money to offer right now and that does hurt. The recruiting wars are not over yet. If losing these two kids would continue to be a pattern then we should be concerned. We have to give UND a little more time and not just base our concerns on two recruits. We definitely need to keep an eye on it. Go Sioux.

[UND-1]

Since they have 60 scholarships or so, they can outbid UND with local kids, that is there goal, to get as many of the biggest names to go there. With that being said, Anderson and Gratzek are top recruits no matter D1-AA or D2, but those other guys they got are pure window dressing for them. UND didn't even go hard after one of them and NDSU scholarshiped him and gave him a forum article about it like they signed some blue chipper. They know these "other guys" are never gonna play but they do it so people think they are staying in touch with ND, which I respect that but at least make some of the players justifiable.

It will be interesting to see the list of the other recruits for this year and where they come from. That will tell a little about how important these local guys are.

Edited January 5, 2006 by UND-1

[BigGame]

That's quite funny and completely erroneous.

My roomate in college was from the cities and came to UND for mech. engineering based on advice from a friends father who was a higher up in an engineering company. So, I guess UND can't be all that far below NDSU and there mech. engineering program. It really isn't where you get your education, it's whether you actually learn the material or not.

[BigGame]

Since they have 60 scholarships or so, they can outbid UND with local kids, that is there goal, to get as many of the biggest names to go there. With that being said, Anderson and Gratzek are top recruits no matter D1-AA or D2, but those other guys they got are pure window dressing for them. UND didn't even go hard after one of them and NDSU scholarshiped him and gave him a forum article about it like they signed some blue chipper. They know these "other guys" are never gonna play but they do it so people think they are staying in touch with ND, which I respect that but at least make some of the players justifiable.

It will be interesting to see the list of the other recruits for this year and where they come from. That will tell a little about how important these local guys are.

I don't really agree with you. NDSU might be more inclined to offer a local kid money over an out of state player of similar ability, but they are not going to give money to a kid that they think doesn't have the ability to play at that level. UND may have watched film and not been impressed, or felt he didn't fit anywhere in the system, or offered the limited money to another recruit they liked better. Recruiting and talent evaluation is not an exact science and many people differ in opinions on many players.

[redwing77]

Actually.. (I know I'm going to get flamed for this) but NDSU's strength as an academic institution is in agriculture and engineering whereas UND's specialties are in law, medicine, aviation, and business.

Both schools have been trying to better themselves in the areas in which the other competes so well. I believe NDSU has been making strides to improve their Business department while UND has done will to improve their engineering department. NDSU isn't going to get into law or medicine just like UND isn't going to get into ag.

If Gratzek chose NDSU for engineering, so be it. Better that than have him choose NDSU to hit the books in an area considered UND's strength.

[iramurphy]

My roomate in college was from the cities and came to UND for mech. engineering based on advice from a friends father who was a higher up in an engineering company. So, I guess UND can't be all that far below NDSU and there mech. engineering program. It really isn't where you get your education, it's whether you actually learn the material or not.

If anyone thinks NDSU's Engineering progams are better than UND's you are not well versed on the subject. They are both excellent Engineering schools. NDSU does not have a better Mechanical Engineering prgram than UND. What they have are teaching staff and coaches who simply declare it to be so. The firms who recruit graduates of the two schools agree both are excellent schools.

As a former director of High School Relations for UND I am surprised at how many coaches over the years do not know the strength's and weaknesses of our own academic intitutions. Any kid who would choose NDSU over UND for Mechanical Engineering because he thinks they have a bettter program is either being polite so he doesn't hurt the coaches feelings, or was sold a bill of goods. If UND's coaches do not fully understand UND's strengths and weaknesses they won't be as effective as recruiters. I am guessing these are simply D1AA vs D2 choices.

It is not the same comparing UND's long standing, accredited, excellent college of Engineering vs NDSU's similar long standing Engineering to comparing UND's long standing fully accerdited, excellent College of Business with their business programs which either are still not accredited, or were only recently accredited. Big difference. Kids from our high school have been recruited there and were told their "College of Business" was accredited and every bit as good as UND's. It was as simple as getting the NDSU course catalogue to show them they didn't have a college of business, only progams in business and none at the time were accredited. You gotta watch those sneaky buggers when it comes to recruiting.

[Cratter]

Not sure what time frame you're talking about, but NDSU has had a college of business since '87 and it's been accredited since '01...

and that speaks volumes about the programs there.

[iramurphy]

and that speaks volumes about the programs there.

As I said, it certainly could be accredited by now and apparently is. It was 1995 and it was not accredited at that time. It is not comparable to UND's College of Business but apparently is at least accredited. We were able to get Rocky to back off their claim and change the claim to (it will be).

[iramurphy]

Maybe about the programs in the past, but accredited is accredited, and SU is accredited now....

Exactly. Harvard has called a meeting of the board of regents to plan their strategy

[iramurphy]

UND certainly offers more programs within that college, partly because of the inclusion of public admin, maybe....enrollment is significantly higher, too--fall '05 numbers are 1818 for UND compared to 1332 for NDSU...in Engineering, UND shows 753 enrolled, while NDSU has 2535, giving SU a significant edge there.

Rocky?! First lesson re: academics: NEVER listen to the football coach!

I never listen to a guy who had to spend 365 days per year in hell. Good point.

[DukeWoods]

The comment on SU is only recruiting local to please the people is absurd! If you truly think this than the gap between competition from DII to DI is immense. Last week we were saying these kids were studs and now they will fail, just because they chose another school! I am a UND graduate and a Sioux fan, but it just ticks me off when people discredit kids for their choices or blame it on "shady" recruiting, don't you think UND does the same things? And the part about SU's coaching staff not being local is a terrible statement, who local was qualified to run a DI program (Dale Lennon) did we want to loose him? I want to see local kids be successfull wherever they are, here or Fargo.

[BJD]

Gratzek comes from a farming family in a farm community and incase you didn't notice it says his preferences are mechanical engineering OR agriculturla engineering. I've only been at UND for three years but I don't know that I've ever come across an ag program, so I think that would pretty much sure things up for SU right there. Just a thought...

[iramurphy]

The comment on SU is only recruiting local to please the people is absurd! If you truly think this than the gap between competition from DII to DI is immense. Last week we were saying these kids were studs and now they will fail, just because they chose another school! I am a UND graduate and a Sioux fan, but it just ticks me off when people discredit kids for their choices or blame it on "shady" recruiting, don't you think UND does the same things? And the part about SU's coaching staff not being local is a terrible statement, who local was qualified to run a DI program (Dale Lennon) did we want to loose him? I want to see local kids be successfull wherever they are, here or Fargo.

I agree with the comments about about the kids being recruited. They won't waste money on a kid at this point just to get a local kid. They have commitments from two of the areas best anyway.

I don't think anyone blamed "shady recruiting". I think the kids chose to go there for the football opportunity and the scholarship. I simply stuck up for UND's Engineering Department, said nothing negative about Fargo's and did point out there is a big difference between the schools of business no matter what the kids are told. Having been involved in recruiting, I do not think UND's staff does the "same things". I am not aware that Fargo's present staff does anything improper, but there have been so many incidences of academic misinformation in the past it isn't funny. If you think Dale and his staff deliberately mislead a kid, you don't know Dale or the program. Smart coaches don't do that because if things don't work out for the kid, you create bad publicity for your programs. That is one of the reasons they haven't gotten any of our kids in years. Besides, friends don't let friends go to the AC.

[coachdags]

The comment on SU is only recruiting local to please the people is absurd! If you truly think this than the gap between competition from DII to DI is immense. Last week we were saying these kids were studs and now they will fail, just because they chose another school! I am a UND graduate and a Sioux fan, but it just ticks me off when people discredit kids for their choices or blame it on "shady" recruiting, don't you think UND does the same things? And the part about SU's coaching staff not being local is a terrible statement, who local was qualified to run a DI program (Dale Lennon) did we want to loose him? I want to see local kids be successfull wherever they are, here or Fargo.

duke i agree, but i also find this interesting......i may have posted these comments in the wrong forum earlier...

One of the things I find confusing is that to be at the Div1aa Level, our in state kids use to be NOT good enough, they needed more speed, more size, play better competition,....

It seems now that two local area football players that a couple of years would not have been good enough are the #1 prospects for a Div1aa school....So is it that now that we are all still recruiting the same kids?

i too root for local in state kids, wherever they end up....

[BisonMav]

duke i agree, but i also find this interesting......i may have posted these comments in the wrong forum earlier...

One of the things I find confusing is that to be at the Div1aa Level, our in state kids use to be NOT good enough, they needed more speed, more size, play better competition,....

It seems now that two local area football players that a couple of years would not have been good enough are the #1 prospects for a Div1aa school....So is it that now that we are all still recruiting the same kids?

i too root for local in state kids, wherever they end up....

There have been a lot of kids from North Dakota in the past that were good enough to play I-AA football and even DI football. They just decided to play DII football for NDSU or UND. There is nothing wrong with playing DII instead of DI. It's just an individuals preference that could be partially due to course of study, family or whatever.

[BigGame]

UND certainly offers more programs within that college, partly because of the inclusion of public admin, maybe....enrollment is significantly higher, too--fall '05 numbers are 1818 for UND compared to 1332 for NDSU...in Engineering, UND shows 753 enrolled, while NDSU has 2535, giving SU a significant edge there.

Rocky?! First lesson re: academics: NEVER listen to the football coach!

Doesn't NDSU also have more engineering programs? For example I had a friend go to NDSU to get a degree in construction engineering, which is or was not offered at UND.

[BigGame]

I agree with the comments about about the kids being recruited. They won't waste money on a kid at this point just to get a local kid. They have commitments from two of the areas best anyway.

I don't think anyone blamed "shady recruiting". I think the kids chose to go there for the football opportunity and the scholarship. I simply stuck up for UND's Engineering Department, said nothing negative about Fargo's and did point out there is a big difference between the schools of business no matter what the kids are told. Having been involved in recruiting, I do not think UND's staff does the "same things". I am not aware that Fargo's present staff does anything improper, but there have been so many incidences of academic misinformation in the past it isn't funny. If you think Dale and his staff deliberately mislead a kid, you don't know Dale or the program. Smart coaches don't do that because if things don't work out for the kid, you create bad publicity for your programs. That is one of the reasons they haven't gotten any of our kids in years. Besides, friends don't let friends go to the AC.

That sounds something like the QB that verbaled and decommitted to Nebraska to go to KState this year. I was driving home from ND after the holiday and heard an Omaha radio guy just ripping this kid to shreds for backing out at Nebraska. When the kid was recruited and before he verballed he was told that he would have the opportunity to compete for the starting QB job as a true freshman. After he verballed, that changed and was basically told he was going to be redshirted. I guess if playing time was important, and I felt lied to, I would decommit as well. The only thing that the kid did very wrong IMO, is that he told Bill Callahan with a text message saying "I'm not coming". That is very poor, but again he is just a high school kid and obviously has a lot to still learn. I just felt it was horrible the way the radio show host and fans calling in bashed and ripped the kid, I would think most fans of the program would be embarassed by that behavior. Adults should probably show more maturity than a 17 year old.

[homer]

Since they have 60 scholarships or so, they can outbid UND with local kids, that is there goal, to get as many of the biggest names to go there. With that being said, Anderson and Gratzek are top recruits no matter D1-AA or D2, but those other guys they got are pure window dressing for them. UND didn't even go hard after one of them and NDSU scholarshiped him and gave him a forum article about it like they signed some blue chipper. They know these "other guys" are never gonna play but they do it so people think they are staying in touch with ND, which I respect that but at least make some of the players justifiable.

It will be interesting to see the list of the other recruits for this year and where they come from. That will tell a little about how important these local guys are.

I'm just curious as to what your recruiting area is since you seem to know so much about talent. Spending scholorships on all of these "other guys" as you call them just so they can sit on the sidelines is something that no coach would do. I am frustrated as well but let's have some form of common sense in our posts.

[UND-1]

I'm just curious as to what your recruiting area is since you seem to know so much about talent. Spending scholorships on all of these "other guys" as you call them just so they can sit on the sidelines is something that no coach would do. I am frustrated as well but let's have some form of common sense in our posts.

My recruiting area is Florida, thats why I am talking about ND kids.

We will see how it plays out. Just going by what I have heard. I may be wrong completely and these guys are gonna be great players.

[tony]

Whooa! You guys have (apparently) lost the battle for two recruits, one of whom has academic reasons for choosing NDSU, and some of you are acting like all is lost and going DI is the only answer?

I think UND's problem, if there is one, is more about uncertainty. If UND had stuck to its guns about staying in DII, kids would know they were going to be playoff eligible or not. Right now they're not sure if they'll ever be playoff eligible at any point in their career at UND while at NDSU, they know they will be playoff eligible by their sophomore season. That's a big change from the last three years when UND won some pretty high profile recruiting battles of their own (e.g. Weston Dressler) in part because NDSU was still deep in their provisional period.

By next year, UND will have eliminated the uncertainty about playoff eligibility, but suppose UND does go DI, I think recruiting North Dakota and Minnesota kids is going to get harder before it gets easier. During its provisional period, NDSU could offer full rides (or nearly full rides) as well as the DI label - things that UND couldn't offer. UND isn't going to have those advantages over NDSU. OTOH, while the playoff thing hurt with local kids, the farther away you got, the less students cared - all they saw was a kickass stadium, big crowds, and an opportunity to play DI ball.

Besides, UND isn't playing NDSU anymore so it's not like this recruiting battle was about anything more than bragging rights. If UND starts losing recruiting battles with St. Cloud, Mankato, Duluth, Winona, Mary, etc. then that's a problem.

You probably don't want advice from me, but if I were a UND guy, I'd probably lay off the comments about DI-AA being no better, or only slightly better, than DII until you find out that UND is in DII to stay. I can't see how anybody would get excited about ponying up to help double the football budget if that's the attitude. Not only that, suppose UND does go DI and has three consecutive 6-win seasons like UC Davis or averages 3 wins a season like UNC has the last two years (and those schools weren't exactly creampuff DII schools). Now further imagine the reaction of fans and alumni, if their administrations and fans had been telling everybody that going DI-AA was going to be no different than playing in the NCC? Kind of seems that folks are setting themselves up for a difficult situation.

[homer]

My recruiting area is Florida, thats why I am talking about ND kids.

We will see how it plays out. Just going by what I have heard. I may be wrong completely and these guys are gonna be great players.

You maybe have heard more about this than I have. I am just looking at it from the $$$ side of it and your post didn't make sense. Just maybe posting a little bit of my frustrations.

[tony]

DI-AA schools can only offer 63 equivancies spread among 85 players (so for a fully funded program that would work out to be an average of 3/4 a full ride per scholarship player). No coach at a program where winning is expected is just going to hand out schollies for PR purposes.

I heard Bohl went to every ND high school this year, maybe that gave him a chance to see something in some of these guys that other folks didn't.