Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Blackheart]

The settlement is a huge problem with the proposed legislation. The NCAA has absolutely no reason to give anything back. They have a signed legal agreement to get what they wanted. What would be their incentive to change the agreement? The rest of the country isn't going to care. As a matter of fact, some would look on it as a sign of weakness if the NCAA gave in at this point. Unless someone can find a reason that the NCAA would benefit, they aren't going to change the agreement.

The constitutional issue is also a large problem. The constitution gives the control to the State Board and removes the decision making from the legislature. It was put in because the legislature was trying to micromanage the colleges (kind of like this law would do). Politics doesn't mix well with something like education. That's why school boards are supposed to be non-partisan. Politicians can sometimes pick issues just to make themselves look good, not because they believe it is important or right. If our esteemed representatives really wanted to get involved they should have done something over the past 3 years. This is a case of too little, too late.

All UND has to do is promise the NCAA a few extra bucks in t-shirt revenue and those whores will do anything.

[82SiouxGuy]

All UND has to do is promise the NCAA a few extra bucks in t-shirt revenue and those whores will do anything.

UND t-shirt revenue is pocket change compared to the Billions they get from other places. They wouldn't walk across the street for that money.

[yababy8]

Why not just get a petition going for an initiative to create a Constitutional Amendment that states that a State University nickname cannot be changed unless the citizens of the state vote democratically to do so. Then after the amendment is approved for the next voting time, go to the courts and get an injunction on the scheduled name change until the proposed constitutional amendment passes or not.

As far as those who think the NCAA deal means we cannot keep the name, I have this to say;

Anyone who thinks the NCAA is going to enforce a decree that is in direct contradiction to the democratic vote of the people of the state, especially if it is constitutional, is a Go_dAm Mor_on!

There is N O WAY the NCAA would go up against that. They do what they do with the pretty accurate belief that those who appose such fascist directive as theirs would not ever go to such an effort as to use their rights as Americans to do things like use the political process in such a way.

As far as those who think it is to late, I say this;

I don"t even know where to begin with that rhetoric?

It is absolutely NEVER "to Late",

That is just brainwash by those who seek to destroy the Sioux name! Period.

BLA BLA BLa, "move on" they say.

How bout you move the F_cK out of the way!!

[darell1976]

Why not just get a petition going for an initiative to create a Constitutional Amendment that states that a State University nickname cannot be changed unless the citizens of the state vote democratically to do so. Then after the amendment is approved for the next voting time, go to the courts and get an injunction on the scheduled name change until the proposed constitutional amendment passes or not.

As far as those who think the NCAA deal means we cannot keep the name, I have this to say;

Anyone who thinks the NCAA is going to enforce a decree that is in direct contradiction to the democratic vote of the people of the state, especially if it is constitutional, is a Go_dAm Mor_on!

There is N O WAY the NCAA would go up against that. They do what they do with the pretty accurate belief that those who appose such fascist directive as theirs would not ever go to such an effort as to use their rights as Americans to do things like use the political process in such a way.

As far as those who think it is to late, I say this;

I don"t even know where to begin with that rhetoric?

It is absolutely NEVER "to Late",

That is just brainwash by those who seek to destroy the Sioux name! Period.

BLA BLA BLa, "move on" they say.

How bout you move the F_cK out of the way!!

You serious?? A petition?? How many damn petitions do we need to save the nickname?? The NCAA could say okay UND get out of our club and play in the NAIA. Its THEIR rules not ours not the states. As for being to late...Yes it is. The only way it is not too late is if the NCAA goes back on their deal (the hostile and abusive list) and say okay UND do what you have to do to save your name in x amount of years...oh wait thats been done.

[dakota fairways]

Right at the top of their home page they call themselves Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.

Sorry, I was just going by the people from Fort Yates that I have asked about this. I did not go to the tribal webpage.

[ShilohSioux]

Where were these guys a couple of years ago? Why now?

This legislation might be nice for symbolism but it has the potential to really hurt us. Unless the folks at Standing Rock change their minds, keeping the name will mean sanctions from the NCAA, will lead to teams refusing to schedule us, and possibly the rescending of the invitation from the Big Sky. The NCAA, other universities, and the Big Sky are all out of the state legislature's jurisdiction. The only way this things turns around is if Standing Rock votes to allow it, and that ain't going to happen. I deeply appreciate the sentiment, but let's move on and put this nasty business behind us.

[yababy8]

You serious?? A petition?? How many damn petitions do we need to save the nickname?? The NCAA could say okay UND get out of our club and play in the NAIA. Its THEIR rules not ours not the states. As for being to late...Yes it is. The only way it is not too late is if the NCAA goes back on their deal (the hostile and abusive list) and say okay UND do what you have to do to save your name in x amount of years...oh wait thats been done.

When I said petition I was referring to the signatures needed to get a constitutional amendment in the ballot.

I think it is 1% of the population of state? That would be about 6 or7 thousand signatures.

20 volunteers could get that in one weekend if they worked the Ralph on a home weekend and worked the malls in gfk, far, and devils lake alone.

The first step is getting the proposed amendment certified by the state.

Then it must by law be placed on the ballot.

Then when it passes, and it will pass, it will be law and if at that point the NCAA wants to continue on with their faciest antics, they will be doing so DIRECTLY in the face of this nations democratic process.

[yababy8]

Where were these guys a couple of years ago? Why now?

This legislation might be nice for symbolism but it has the potential to really hurt us. Unless the folks at Standing Rock change their minds, keeping the name will mean sanctions from the NCAA, will lead to teams refusing to schedule us, and possibly the rescending of the invitation from the Big Sky. The NCAA, other universities, and the Big Sky are all out of the state legislature's jurisdiction. The only way this things turns around is if Standing Rock votes to allow it, and that ain't going to happen. I deeply appreciate the sentiment, but let's move on and put this nasty business behind us.

hey I've got a news flash for all the posters on here that have been registered on the site for like 1 month and spewing rhetoric like "it's too late" or "it will be bad for us" to stand up for what we believe in, we know better!

if you're not a plant by the change committee, then I'll say this to you; do you think it anyway appropriate to come on to a site where members have been on here for years and years and be on here for 1 month and start telling everyone how they should give up a fight for something they believe in?

I'm sure you probly do think that's okay but I'll say this to you, if your not a phony your an idiot!

[dmksioux]

hey I've got a news flash for all the posters on here that have been registered on the site for like 1 month and spewing rhetoric like "it's too late" or "it will be bad for us" to stand up for what we believe in, we know better!

if you're not a plant by the change committee, then I'll say this to you; do you think it anyway appropriate to come on to a site where members have been on here for years and years and be on here for 1 month and start telling everyone how they should give up a fight for something they believe in?

I'm sure you probly do think that's okay but I'll say this to you, if your not a phony your an idiot!

No reason to begin attacking each other. I have been on this site for more than one month and agree with many of the posters who question the legislature getting involved at this point. The potential harm at this point outweighs the risk of what the legislature is proposing. IF the tribes, particularily Standing Rock, were to get involved and hold a vote, then perhaps this would get some legs. As it stands now, it appears to be nothing more than some grandstanding by some politicians in Bismarck.

[CMSioux]

Just a update on the Sioux Forever Shirts, the version that was at Sheels is not available anymore - UND asked that they stop selling them. There is a Sioux Forever Shirt available at Play it Again Sports, Fargo and Grand Forks or SIouxpride.com Just to clarify the shirts aren't associated with UND and are intended to support the preservation and history of the Sioux name.

[darell1976]

No reason to begin attacking each other. I have been on this site for more than one month and agree with many of the posters who question the legislature getting involved at this point. The potential harm at this point outweighs the risk of what the legislature is proposing. IF the tribes, particularily Standing Rock, were to get involved and hold a vote, then perhaps this would get some legs. As it stands now, it appears to be nothing more than some grandstanding by some politicians in Bismarck.

Since the Standing Rock Tribal Council is sitting there laughing at all of this knowing that they hold all the cards and we can do NOTHING about it...what's the point. Yes we keep the name, but we lose home playoffs, we lose our identity on the road in those playoffs, and the possibility of playing D2 and NAIA teams forever. Is it worth it.

[Old Time Hockey]

Since the Standing Rock Tribal Council is sitting there laughing at all of this knowing that they hold all the cards and we can do NOTHING about it...what's the point. Yes we keep the name, but we lose home playoffs, we lose our identity on the road in those playoffs, and the possibility of playing D2 and NAIA teams forever. Is it worth it.

Is it worth it? Hell yeah it is!!!!

Something would give in the future! I just think we have been screwed over this since day one. I say we fight until the Standing Rock people are heard. Isn't that what this is about anyway???

So we don't get to host that many playoff games for a few years and who cares if we have to wear logo-less jerseys in the playoffs (plain jerseys with just the numbers on the back would maybe make a statement)?

Also, we would be able play plenty of teams unless the Big Sky pulled the plug on us over the nickname issue. Seems rather unlikely!

This whole roll-over mentality has me just baffled...........................

[darell1976]

Is it worth it? Hell yeah it is!!!!

Something would give in the future! I just think we have been screwed over this since day one. I say we fight until the Standing Rock people are heard. Isn't that what this is about anyway???

So we don't get to host that many playoff games for a few years and who cares if we have to wear logo-less jerseys in the playoffs (plain jerseys with just the numbers on the back would maybe make a statement)?

Also, we would be able play plenty of teams unless the Big Sky pulled the plug on us over the nickname issue. Seems rather unlikely!

This whole roll-over mentality has me just baffled...........................

And how about the NCAA bans teams from playing teams on the NA watch list. Then who do we play? Sioux Falls? St. Cloud State? You piss off the NCAA and they will make you pay. Its their club.

[mksioux]

Where were these guys a couple of years ago? Why now?

This legislation might be nice for symbolism but it has the potential to really hurt us. Unless the folks at Standing Rock change their minds, keeping the name will mean sanctions from the NCAA, will lead to teams refusing to schedule us, and possibly the rescending of the invitation from the Big Sky. The NCAA, other universities, and the Big Sky are all out of the state legislature's jurisdiction. The only way this things turns around is if Standing Rock votes to allow it, and that ain't going to happen. I deeply appreciate the sentiment, but let's move on and put this nasty business behind us.

Actually, under the terms of the settlement, even if UND were to get Standing Rock's permission at this point, the NCAA would be under no obligation to allow UND to use the Sioux nickname without sanctions. UND had to gain both tribes' support by November 30, 2010. UND did not, so UND must begin the transition toward retirement or it will be placed back on the sanctions list regardless of what happens at Standing Rock going forward. Unless the NCAA agrees to retroactively extend the deadline, this legislation is reckless. At a minimum, legislators should at least acknowledge that this legislation would cause NCAA sanctions against UND. Most of the legislators in the newspaper don't even seem to understand what is going on or practical effect of the legislation. And any talk of suing the NCAA for anti-trust violations (again) just highlights their ignorance because that cannot happen.

I love the nickname as much as anyone, but this legislation is grounded in utter ignorance by uninformed people, and would cause UND more harm than good.

[darell1976]

Actually, under the terms of the settlement, even if UND were to get Standing Rock's permission at this point, the NCAA would be under no obligation to allow UND to use the Sioux nickname without sanctions. UND had to gain both tribes' support by November 30, 2010. UND did not, so UND must begin the transition toward retirement or it will be placed back on the sanctions list regardless of what happens at Standing Rock going forward. Unless the NCAA agrees to retroactively extend the deadline, this legislation is reckless. At a minimum, legislators should at least acknowledge that this legislation would cause NCAA sanctions against UND. Most of the legislators in the newspaper don't even seem to understand what is going on or practical effect of the legislation. And any talk of suing the NCAA for anti-trust violations (again) just highlights their ignorance because that cannot happen.

I love the nickname as much as anyone, but this legislation is grounded in utter ignorance by uninformed people, and would cause UND more harm than good.

I agree with you. I love the name but the worse that could happen to UND outweighs the good of keeping the name. I just hate when something comes up to save the name only to have it fall through and crush the hopes of everyone who supports it. It happened when the Spirit Lake voted. Ok we have 1 tribe, then the SR said no vote. They got rid of RHHIT and replaced with with Murphy. Murphy was a Pro nickname candidate and got voted in guess what hopes of keeping the name went up until they delayed a thousand times to vote until the last vote which crushed all hopes. Now the legislature is doing the same thing get people thinking hey we can stay the Fighting Sioux BUT with sanctions on our athletic teams.

[82SiouxGuy]

When I said petition I was referring to the signatures needed to get a constitutional amendment in the ballot.

I think it is 1% of the population of state? That would be about 6 or7 thousand signatures.

20 volunteers could get that in one weekend if they worked the Ralph on a home weekend and worked the malls in gfk, far, and devils lake alone.

The first step is getting the proposed amendment certified by the state.

Then it must by law be placed on the ballot.

Then when it passes, and it will pass, it will be law and if at that point the NCAA wants to continue on with their faciest antics, they will be doing so DIRECTLY in the face of this nations democratic process.

Your posting style is very interesting. You call people names and tell them they're stupid if they disagree with you. Yet you don't seem to have a very strong handle on facts.

A petition for a constitutional amendment takes more than 1%. To run for office you need 3% of the number of actual voters for that office in the last election. A constitutional amendment takes more than that. I don't remember the exact figure, but in the past I believe it was more than 25,000 signatures which would be more like 4%. I also heard that with the 2010 census that number would go up, and I believe it is around 28,000. Those are signatures of people qualified to vote in the state of North Dakota, not just anyone wandering by. It is possible, but would take more than a weekend at the Ralph.

Once the proposal is drawn up, it has to be approved by the Secretary of State before it can go out for signatures. When the signatures are gathered the petitions have to be turned back in to the Secretary of State to make sure that the proper procedures were followed and that enough qualified signatures have been gathered. This past election a proposed amendment was not allowed on the ballot because the proper procedure wasn't followed. When all of that is done it can be placed on the ballot for the next state-wide election. That will be in June of 2012.

The chances of such an amendment passing are hard to predict. There are going to be people that are against the name in general. There would be NDSU fans that vote against it because they don't like UND. There are people that will vote for it no matter what. But there is also a group that is hard to predict and that group will make the decision. Some of them really don't have an interest either way. And some may be swayed against it if they understand the potential harm of being on the NCAA banned list, not being able to host playoff games in football or women's basketball (or hockey if they ever go back to on campus sites) plus the threat of not being able to play schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin and probably others.

This idea that the NCAA would back down is probably naive. They have absolutely no reason to back down. The majority of the country isn't going to back UND on this for a lot of reasons, mainly because they don't care. As Darrell has said several times, the NCAA is a private club. It is their game and UND doesn't have to play along if they don't want to. UND could go to the NAIA and probably not have a problem, other than the normal protests. But if UND wants to play with the rest of the schools in the NCAA they have to play the game. If this had been done 2 years ago, before the settlement date had passed, it might have been a different story.

By the way, are you going to call me a plant too? I believe that I've been posting on here more than a month, actually longer than you. And I've been following this debate almost from the beginning, I'm not a late comer that just got involved in the last month, or last year, or even the last decade. So keep your insults to yourself.

[mksioux]

Is it worth it? Hell yeah it is!!!!

Something would give in the future! I just think we have been screwed over this since day one. I say we fight until the Standing Rock people are heard. Isn't that what this is about anyway???

So we don't get to host that many playoff games for a few years and who cares if we have to wear logo-less jerseys in the playoffs (plain jerseys with just the numbers on the back would maybe make a statement)?

Also, we would be able play plenty of teams unless the Big Sky pulled the plug on us over the nickname issue. Seems rather unlikely!

This whole roll-over mentality has me just baffled...........................

What exactly would give? You would need all of the following to happen: (1) A Constitutional amendment, (2) Standing Rock allowing a referendum, even though they've shown utter contempt for the process up to this point and making matters more difficult is the fact that their vote would be meaingless because the NCAA no longer has to abide by it, (3) The results of the referendum in support of the nickname, and (4) The NCAA voluntarily agreeing out of the goodness of their hearts to take UND off the sanctions list even though they have no legal obligation to do so. That's a lot of "ifs" to just throw caution to the wind and say "WTF, let's do it."

And Sanctions wouldn't last just a few years, they would be indefinite. Existing under NCAA sanctions and having no chance to ever host a playoff game would ultimately destroy UND's football program.

[ShilohSioux]

hey I've got a news flash for all the posters on here that have been registered on the site for like 1 month and spewing rhetoric like "it's too late" or "it will be bad for us" to stand up for what we believe in, we know better!

if you're not a plant by the change committee, then I'll say this to you; do you think it anyway appropriate to come on to a site where members have been on here for years and years and be on here for 1 month and start telling everyone how they should give up a fight for something they believe in?

I'm sure you probly do think that's okay but I'll say this to you, if your not a phony your an idiot!

Sorry. I didn't understand that length of time posting on this forum was the litmus test for being a true UND or Sioux fan. I'll go away now.

[Hawkster]

Sorry. I didn't understand that length of time posting on this forum was the litmus test for being a true UND or Sioux fan. I'll go away now.

Don't worry about it. Length of time here doesn't matter, it comes down to posting what certain people here want to hear. I've been a member for 4 years and was told a few days ago by StarCity that my posts weren't worth reading. Some people just like to run the show apparently.

[yababy8]

Your posting style is very interesting. You call people names and tell them they're stupid if they disagree with you. Yet you don't seem to have a very strong handle on facts.

A petition for a constitutional amendment takes more than 1%.

I said I THINK, not that i know."

Other than the number of volunteers we would need, the 1% or 4% is irrelevant, We all know the signatures are there.

Now about your assertion that we might not get the vote? If we don't then the people have spoken haven't they?

and you might want to consider the poll done by the Fargo Forum a few years back. I do believe it was 80% approval for continued use of the name.

I would love for this to get on a general election ballot and have an opportunity to place a bet with you, or any other crazy man would would venture to do it, on the outcome of that vote.

As far as the NCAA's reaction, It would be amusing if they were conceded enough to attempt to continue with sanctions when an entire state of our Country amended their fricking constitution to clearly communicate to all that our speech neither hostile nor abusive.

The Bottom line is this:

Changing the name is not the right thing to do.

Given that someone please tell me when we should say uncle?

[Goon]

Just a update on the Sioux Forever Shirts, the version that was at Sheels is not available anymore - UND asked that they stop selling them. There is a Sioux Forever Shirt available at Play it Again Sports, Fargo and Grand Forks or SIouxpride.com Just to clarify the shirts aren't associated with UND and are intended to support the preservation and history of the Sioux name.

Hey do they have xl or xxl shirts?

[rochsioux]

The settlement is a huge problem with the proposed legislation. The NCAA has absolutely no reason to give anything back. They have a signed legal agreement to get what they wanted. What would be their incentive to change the agreement? The rest of the country isn't going to care. As a matter of fact, some would look on it as a sign of weakness if the NCAA gave in at this point. Unless someone can find a reason that the NCAA would benefit, they aren't going to change the agreement.

The constitutional issue is also a large problem. The constitution gives the control to the State Board and removes the decision making from the legislature. It was put in because the legislature was trying to micromanage the colleges (kind of like this law would do). Politics doesn't mix well with something like education. That's why school boards are supposed to be non-partisan. Politicians can sometimes pick issues just to make themselves look good, not because they believe it is important or right. If our esteemed representatives really wanted to get involved they should have done something over the past 3 years. This is a case of too little, too late.

Does the NC$$ settlement really matter that much in trying to keep the name ?

The way I look at it, the settlement gave UND 3 years to get tribal approval. During those 3 years UND would not be subject to any sanctions for using the Sioux name.

After the 3 years if UND got approval from both tribes they could continue to use the name without sanctions. Without approval they must drop the name or face the NC$$ sanctions (no playoff games at home).

I believe that is basically what the settlement says. I don't think it says anything about what would happen in the future if UND keeps the name without approval and is put on the sanctions list and then gets the tribal approval at some later date.

If they keep the name and then get approval next year I believe the NC$$ will have no choice but to remove UND from the sanction list. Otherwise they will be going against the wishes of the Sioux tribes to allow the name which was supposedly the whole point of the tribal approval exemption in the first place. Now we can argue whether Standing Rock will ever approve the name, at this point I see little or no chance of that unless they can force a full vote of the tribe through their court system.

So, if they pass a law and force UND to keep the Sioux name then they will be subject to the NC$$ sanctions. Until UND is playoff eligible any sanctions have little meaning (sure some schools like Minny won't schedule UND but I haven't seen them schedule UND during the past three years anyway).

For me, the ND legislature should have done something years ago, but I would support this effort as I would still like to find some way to keep the name. Basically buying some time to find a way to get Standing Rock to vote of the issue.

Any sanctions have little meaning until the 2012-2013 season.

[darell1976]

We need to know if sanctions would hurt our membership in the Big Sky. Remember we are NOT members until 2012. They could change their minds couldn't they? Why ruin a good thing. Also more schools like Minnesota may start to ban UND so it will make scheduling a lot harder unless we play NAIA teams.

[yababy8]

Just a update on the Sioux Forever Shirts, the version that was at Sheels is not available anymore - UND asked that they stop selling them. There is a Sioux Forever Shirt available at Play it Again Sports, Fargo and Grand Forks or SIouxpride.com Just to clarify the shirts aren't associated with UND and are intended to support the preservation and history of the Sioux name.

So now UND is turning into the thought police??!??

[dakota fairways]

We need to know if sanctions would hurt our membership in the Big Sky. Remember we are NOT members until 2012. They could change their minds couldn't they? Why ruin a good thing. Also more schools like Minnesota may start to ban UND so it will make scheduling a lot harder unless we play NAIA teams.

If the Big Sky is looking for a way to get rid of UND since USD changed their minds, this could be a dangerous slope to get on. I hope the Big Sky is as happy to have UND as a member as UND is to be a member of the Sky, but what if, what if they didn't feel the same way with UND on its own out here in the central time zone in an 11/13 team league? Has there been any indication from the BSC where they stand on the nickname issue?

Also, its human nature, that when someone tells you that you have to do something or that you can't do something, that we all want to do the opposite of what we are being told. We don't want to give up the Sioux name because we are being told we have to. (we certainly wouldn't have done this on our own) The Standing Rock tribe has and will continue to feel the same way about being told they have to vote on the nickname.

When this news first broke, it sounded like a great idea, but there are so many questions that need to be answered...