mksioux Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I don't know what the Summit will view as resolved. Perhaps they only consider dropping the nickname as resolved. Afterall, if you keep the nickname somehow, there is always the possibility that this issue could come back at later time. I agree with you here. When Douple says "resolved" does not mean the nickname has to be dropped, I don't really believe him. Until the nickname is dropped, it will never be fully and finally resolved. That really was my whole point. I've never said Douple can't or shouldn't do what he's doing. I've just said I think he's being disingenous with his public comments and it sounds like you don't really disagree with me on that point. I have no idea how many different scenarios I could dream up where the Summit League would be automatically drawn into all the nasty trashing PR that comes with the nickname issue, from both sides. But mainly, it's for the scenarios that no one can think of. Your whole mantra is "business risk" by the Summit, but it sounds like you can't articulate what those risks really are, other than "unknown" risks. If Douple is trying to guard against all risks, known and unknown, associated with the Sioux nickname, then the nickname has to be dropped and not merely "resolved" before admitting UND. This goes back to point #1, which is that he's being disingenous with his public comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I agree with you here. When Douple says "resolved" does not mean the nickname has to be dropped, I don't really believe him. Until the nickname is dropped, it will never be fully and finally resolved. That really was my whole point. I've never said Douple can't or shouldn't do what he's doing. I've just said I think he's being disingenous with his public comments and it sounds like you don't really disagree with me on that point. Your whole mantra is "business risk" by the Summit, but it sounds like you can't articulate what those risks really are, other than "unknown" risks. If Douple is trying to guard against all risks, known and unknown, associated with the Sioux nickname, then the nickname has to be dropped and not merely "resolved" before admitting UND. This goes back to point #1, which is that he's being disingenous with his public comments. I don't agree that he is being disingenuous. I don't know what he will consider "resolved" to be. I'm just saying if I were him, I would not even open UND's application until the nickname was dropped or a 30 year agreement was signed with both tribes. Point being, of course, that the Summit League is a business and that UND's nickname issue represents a risk to that business, so long as the issue is not resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I don't agree that he is being disingenuous. I don't know what he will consider "resolved" to be. I'm just saying if I were him, I would not even open UND's application until the nickname was dropped or a 30 year agreement was signed with both tribes. Point being, of course, that the Summit League is a business and that UND's nickname issue represents a risk to that business, so long as the issue is not resolved.Just because you say it, it doesn't make it true - and certainly saying it more doesn't make it any more true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 Point being, of course, that the Summit League is a business and that UND's nickname issue represents a risk to that business, so long as the issue is not resolved. That's such a joke. Valparaiso - the one "name" school leaving the league was a risk: guess what? It happened three years ago. That was a more significant loss than any potential issue with a Sioux nickname. This is the same league that granted Centenary membership like 6 years ago, and claimed they would be an awesome long-time member, helping build up the conference, and instead Centenary doublecrosses the Summit and goes DIII. Yet Douple has the nerve to claim UND is a risk. Out of desperation, this league granted Southern Utah membership over ten years ago - Douple's school by the way- hoping they'd be gone within a few years, and they are still waiting for SUU to pack their bags because of huge travel expenses, - but yet they are claiming UND is a risk. This league granted Chicago State membership, and CSU couldn't hardly locate the NCAA manual on a myriad of issues, and UND is a risk. THe Big East splitting - very likely - is a huge risk that seems to be ignorned, because it would cause the following: Oral Roberts packing up and leaving is a risk. Oakland packing up and leaving is a risk. IUPUI packing up and leaving is a risk. IPFW packing up and leaving is a risk. UMKC packing up and leaving is a risk. Those are are much greater risks than UND and it's nickname with a legally binding 2010 date. Three reasons the Summit did this: Douple wants to pander and ingratiate himself to the NCAA (the NCAA offers some gravy train jobs, btw), Certain presidents in the Summit want to appear virtuous to the educational establishment and to American Indians, yet, hypocrites they are, do nothing in action in any way copmarable to what UND does, NDSU leadership wanted to spare itself the further embarassment at the DI level with "Sioux suck ***" cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Just because you say it, it doesn't make it true - and certainly saying it more doesn't make it any more true. If it weren't true, UND would have already been accepted into the Summit League. Obviously there is no objective truth on this => the only "truth" that matters is what Douple considers the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 That's such a joke. Valparaiso - the one "name" school leaving the league was a risk: guess what? It happened three years ago. That was a more significant loss than any potential issue with a Sioux nickname. This is the same league that granted Centenary membership like 6 years ago, and claimed they would be an awesome long-time member, helping build up the conference, and instead Centenary doublecrosses the Summit and goes DIII. Yet Douple has the nerve to claim UND is a risk. Out of desperation, this league granted Southern Utah membership over ten years ago - Douple's school by the way- hoping they'd be gone within a few years, and they are still waiting for SUU to pack their bags because of huge travel expenses, - but yet they are claiming UND is a risk. This league granted Chicago State membership, and CSU couldn't hardly locate the NCAA manual on a myriad of issues, and UND is a risk. THe Big East splitting - very likely - is a huge risk that seems to be ignorned, because it would cause the following: Oral Roberts packing up and leaving is a risk. Oakland packing up and leaving is a risk. IUPUI packing up and leaving is a risk. IPFW packing up and leaving is a risk. UMKC packing up and leaving is a risk. Those are are much greater risks than UND and it's nickname with a legally binding 2010 date. Three reasons the Summit did this: Douple wants to pander and ingratiate himself to the NCAA (the NCAA offers some gravy train jobs, btw), Certain presidents in the Summit want to appear virtuous to the educational establishment and to American Indians, yet, hypocrites they are, do nothing in action in any way copmarable to what UND does, NDSU leadership wanted to spare itself the further embarassment at the DI level with "Sioux suck ***" cheers Negative PR from the Sioux nickname is a greater risk to the Summit than anything you just described. Teams can and will be replaced. Bad image can and will cost the Summit millions of dollars and take many years to erase. Douple is just protecting his conference. He is not doing anything for the NCAA. Your other two "hypotheses" are dogs**t and don't deserve to be acknowledged any further than to call them what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 Negative PR from the Sioux nickname is a greater risk to the Summit than anything you just described. Teams can and will be replaced. Bad image can and will cost the Summit millions of dollars and take many years to erase. Douple is just protecting his conference. He is not doing anything for the NCAA. Your other two "hypotheses" are dogs**t and don't deserve to be acknowledged any further than to call them what they are. So I guess the Sioux name is worse than drug dealing, DUIs, and a plethora of other criminal actions at NDSU. What a commentary on our society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Negative PR from the Sioux nickname is a greater risk to the Summit than anything you just described. Teams can and will be replaced. How much negative PR could there be, really? Except for the schools affected how much PR is there on this issue around the country? I submit it's a back page story everywhere except those locales affected directly. No one really cares that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Negative PR from the Sioux nickname is a greater risk to the Summit than anything you just described. Teams can and will be replaced. Bad image can and will cost the Summit millions of dollars and take many years to erase. Douple is just protecting his conference. He is not doing anything for the NCAA.Right, and we know this to be true because of the immensely bad image and monetary costs UND has caused the NCC, WCHA and Great West. I'm sure in your addled mind you think the NCC disbanded due solely to UND's moniker. With the extraordinarily poor judgment you incessantly display, I'm really amazed that you've apparently survived to adulthood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthDakotaHockey Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Right, and we know this to be true because of the immensely bad image and monetary costs UND has caused the NCC, WCHA and Great West. I'm sure in your addled mind you think the NCC disbanded due solely to UND's moniker. With the extraordinarily poor judgment you incessantly display, I'm really amazed that you've apparently survived to adulthood. Damned straight DamStrait. MplsBison is just ripe with the envy because his school did not have the foresight and the wisdom to establish a hockey program back in the day. As such, he is left with the ignominy of being little more than a troll under the bridge. Sniveling over everything and always without reason or cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Haha! Just look at the venom being spewed in this thread! Even by normally respectable posters like star2. Wow! This topic really brings out the worst nastiness in people imaginable. Then again, internet message boards have a sort of enabling anonymity to them that makes even the most timid say the most outlandish things...things they would never have the balls to dare even think face to face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Haha! Just look at the venom being spewed in this thread! Even by normally respectable posters like star2. Wow! This topic really brings out the worst nastiness in people imaginable. Then again, internet message boards have a sort of enabling anonymity to them that makes even the most timid say the most outlandish things...things they would never have the balls to dare even think face to face. I bet you wouldn't say a lot of the stupid stuff that you spew if you weren't able to hide behind a monkier either MPLSBISIONFAN. Pot kettle black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knickball2 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Yeah, we really need the Summit League, anybody attend the Meltdown at the Ralph, the Sioux men and women were fairly hapless against South Dakota. For now the Great West is the best place for these teams of mediocrity. And yes, I was one of the few, I would guess 2,000 fans tops in attendance. So MinneapolisBison, and every other Summit supporter, on the campus of UND, football and hockey, the only sports we're really concerned with, continue to thrive and make money. Paint all the gloomy scenarios you wish about the Summit being a great business move that the University needs more than they need the, by the way, trademarked and copyrighted nickname/logo, time will tell, and Standing Rock will eventually speak. They will decide on their own timetable, not SBoHE's schedule. I continue to be optimistic that the elders at Standing Rock will be heard. Now, Goon and every other regular poster on here, why is Minneapolis Bison still here, we know he's not welcome at Bisonville, and he continues to antagonize anyone that is kind enough to discuss any matter, so again why, this is "SiouxSports.com" a place I come to to hear good news and opinions of the Fighting Sioux, not some blowhard spewing the Summit League is the endall and goal, puke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Now, Goon and every other regular poster on here, why is Minneapolis Bison still here, we know he's not welcome at Bisonville, and he continues to antagonize anyone that is kind enough to discuss any matter, so again why, this is "SiouxSports.com" a place I come to to hear good news and opinions of the Fighting Sioux, not some blowhard spewing the Summit League is the endall and goal, puke. As a Bison fan how does he get kicked out of Bisonville AKA Belligerentvile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Yeah, we really need the Summit League, anybody attend the Meltdown at the Ralph, the Sioux men and women were fairly hapless against South Dakota. For now the Great West is the best place for these teams of mediocrity. And yes, I was one of the few, I would guess 2,000 fans tops in attendance. So MinneapolisBison, and every other Summit supporter, on the campus of UND, football and hockey, the only sports we're really concerned with, continue to thrive and make money. Paint all the gloomy scenarios you wish about the Summit being a great business move that the University needs more than they need the, by the way, trademarked and copyrighted nickname/logo, time will tell, and Standing Rock will eventually speak. They will decide on their own timetable, not SBoHE's schedule. I continue to be optimistic that the elders at Standing Rock will be heard. Now, Goon and every other regular poster on here, why is Minneapolis Bison still here, we know he's not welcome at Bisonville, and he continues to antagonize anyone that is kind enough to discuss any matter, so again why, this is "SiouxSports.com" a place I come to to hear good news and opinions of the Fighting Sioux, not some blowhard spewing the Summit League is the endall and goal, puke. Yet another undeserving "fan" of Sioux athletics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the green team Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Considering both sets of end bleachers were full at Meltdown at the Ralph, and they seat 500 each, I would say that it was more than 2,000 and say it was closer 3500. In the end the weather wasn't that bad, but what was being forecasted kept a few away. In fact, a few people who usually sit in my area for games at the Betty, said they had decided not to come- just because they thought the weather was going to be worse. I still think your estimate knickball, is very much on the low side. Why as basketball programs do we have to suffer forever in the Great West? Because we are struggling the last few years. My goodness, I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot, when UND hockey was struggling in the early 90's and if (which I know they were not, strictly hypothetical) they were in some piss poor periphery conference with no chance of ever getting an autobid- that person would have been shot. But since it's basketball, who gives a rip. Thats pretty much what I'm hearing. Do you know one of the reasons that Men's hockey is able to effectively is stay ahead and make money is that many of their road trips are take by institution charter bus, meaning UND's. It's a lot cheaper to do that than fly everywhere- less stress against the budget. Now imagine if Basketball could at least get a few more games via bus, then at least they are not losing as much money, or they are causing less strain on the athletics budget. To me this is more about dollars & cents. I've said it before, what are we complaining about a pidley 7 months left for, we've had more than enough time prior to these final hours, but please enlighten me as to why anyone thinks that SR is going to change their mind or even show any movement. If they did I would be rejoicing in the streets, but the reality is they refuse to touch this issue with a 10 foot pole. It's sad but having lived next to this reservation (not on) while growing up, I know this is their way. This is how they do things. Getting to it may mean 10 years from now, should we wait that long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Haha! Just look at the venom being spewed in this thread! Even by normally respectable posters like star2. Wow! This topic really brings out the worst nastiness in people imaginable. Then again, internet message boards have a sort of enabling anonymity to them that makes even the most timid say the most outlandish things...things they would never have the balls to dare even think face to face. Skippy, if you think that I wouldn't say to your face what I've posted on this forum, you are sadly mistaken (as per usual). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Ramsey: It's past time for UND to drop Fighting Sioux logoThe logo offends and insults thousands of Native Americans, but that truth fails to sink into the minds of many UND fans. If the logo is meant to honor the Sioux, that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsowe Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 What a nice one-side story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 What a nice one-side story I just sent Mr Ramsey an email asking him to do a little research before opening his yapper next time...here's his address if you want to communicate with him... david.ramsey@gazette.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP157 Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Ramsey: It's past time for UND to drop Fighting Sioux logoSpirit Lake voted overwhelmingly in favor of the name/logo. Their is a tribe backed legal action to save the name/logo. Maybe this pinhead should try listening to the tribes. He's a moron. I just enlightened him on a few of these things, since you can leave comments on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 He's a moron. I just enlightened him on a few of these things, since you can leave comments on the website. He responded to my email; his only contention was that he did not believe the majority of Native Americans supported the nickname. That would have taken at least 5-10 minutes to find on the web...Obviously he did zero research on this story and is just happy to be collecting a paycheck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 It's his opinion. Good for him. The difference between him and me? I enjoy hearing his opinion (as misguided as I may believe it to be). More speech and free speech is good speech. He wants to stifle the opinion of the Spirit Lake Nation. He wants to limit speech. Oh the irony of a newspaper columnist looking to limit speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Ramsey: It's past time for UND to drop Fighting Sioux logoSpirit Lake voted overwhelmingly in favor of the name/logo. Their is a tribe backed legal action to save the name/logo. Maybe this pinhead should try listening to the tribes. Why doesn't he travel to the high schools on the rez and tell the natives themselves that they should have to change their Indian nicknames, and see what kind of a responce he gets to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 It's his opinion. Good for him. The difference between him and me? I enjoy hearing his opinion (as misguided as I may believe it to be). More speech and free speech is good speech. He wants to stifle the opinion of the Spirit Lake Nation. He wants to limit speech. Oh the irony of a newspaper columnist looking to limit speech. What's that word? Hypo ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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