Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[MplsBison]

An astute observer would point out that the real reason for the SCSU protests was to draw attention away from SCSU's record of racial and religious intolerance on their campus. Have you ever seen any of those protests? The best way to describe them is "underwhelming". They couldn't be bothered enough to educate themselves on the issue so that they could get their chant right ("people not mascots" - although UND does not have a mascot).

When talking about the average person, we are obviously talking about the average person after having the facts laid out before them. Do you honestly believe that the average person, when informed of the Summit's position and of the existing agreement with the NCAA on the issue would think the Summit is being reasonable? Really?!? Knowing, of course, that all the statistically relevant polling on the issue of schools with indian monikers has shown that a very strong majority has no problem with them. You are foolish not to yield the point.

The reference to Chamberlain is relevant - both of you hope that by giving in to an unreasonable bully, that bully will then ask no more from you. I find your apologist defense of Douple to be nothing short of viscerally repugnant. Be careful of what you wish for - without emotion, there would be very little donation to UND period.

I've got news for you, you are never going to convince me that the Summit's position is reasonable - relevant historical evidence shows that it is not. You obviously do not agree. We are just going to have to accept that neither of us will be moved on that point. You should know by now, however, that anyone that has "MplsBison" on their side is treading on very thin ice indeed.

How can it be thin ice if it's what's happening?

If you were so obviously correct, then why hasn't the Summit come out and said "we're going to admit UND now, knowing full well that the issue will be resolved long before they ever play a league game".

[DamStrait]

How can it be thin ice if it's what's happening?

If you were so obviously correct, then why hasn't the Summit come out and said "we're going to admit UND now, knowing full well that the issue will be resolved long before they ever play a league game".

Your willful ignorance continues to be wearisome - but that's the point isn't it - after all, it's your principal form of entertainment - trying to irritate by pretending someone's arguing "A" when you know they're really arguing "B". You know full well I'm talking about the reasonableness of the Summit's position, but you know there's nowhere to go there, so you try to change the argument. Grow up.

[yababy8]

And let's not forget the lovely Hitler video that hit the internet. I am sure the NDSU administration loved spending a week getting requests for interviews and statements reguarding that lovely video.

So yes, this does spill over into other universities.

What was the deal with this?

I had never heard of this?

[petey23]

The whole nickname/summit issue didn't really come about until after Gene Taylor fumbled and stammered through a series of lame excuses as to why NDSU wouldn't(or couldn't) schedule the Sioux in sports on Dan Hammer's show a few months back. He got caught lying and to me it seems that Douple then attempted to give him a little cover and it escalated from there. After Taylor was unable to give any legitimate reasons he told Hammer that the league had told their teams not to schedule UND which if true, apparently several teams in the summit other than NDSU had chose to ignore this league "mandate" as several teams from the Summit have played UND in a variety of sports the last couple years.

Are the Summit League's meetings and minutes subject to open records laws? It would be interesting to see the timelines of this alleged league directive.

I had conversations with Dan Hammer and Jeff Kolpack about this and in my opinion was that if the minutes from any of their league meetings showed that NDSU was not supporting UND's admission to the Summit that severance packages for Chapman and Taylor should be put together immediately as they are in the end employees of the North Dakota University system. As far as I know no one has asked for these records.

[dmksioux]

The whole nickname/summit issue didn't really come about until after Gene Taylor fumbled and stammered through a series of lame excuses as to why NDSU wouldn't(or couldn't) schedule the Sioux in sports on Dan Hammer's show a few months back. He got caught lying and to me it seems that Douple then attempted to give him a little cover and it escalated from there. After Taylor was unable to give any legitimate reasons he told Hammer that the league had told their teams not to schedule UND which if true, apparently several teams in the summit other than NDSU had chose to ignore this league "mandate" as several teams from the Summit have played UND in a variety of sports the last couple years.

Are the Summit League's meetings and minutes subject to open records laws? It would be interesting to see the timelines of this alleged league directive.

I had conversations with Dan Hammer and Jeff Kolpack about this and in my opinion was that if the minutes from any of their league meetings showed that NDSU was not supporting UND's admission to the Summit that severance packages for Chapman and Taylor should be put together immediately as they are in the end employees of the North Dakota University system. As far as I know no one has asked for these records.

Since they have a private school (Oral Roberts) in their league, I believe they are exempt from the "Open Records" laws. Some one can correct me if I'm wrong on this...

[MplsBison]

The whole nickname/summit issue didn't really come about until after Gene Taylor fumbled and stammered through a series of lame excuses as to why NDSU wouldn't(or couldn't) schedule the Sioux in sports on Dan Hammer's show a few months back. He got caught lying and to me it seems that Douple then attempted to give him a little cover and it escalated from there. After Taylor was unable to give any legitimate reasons he told Hammer that the league had told their teams not to schedule UND which if true, apparently several teams in the summit other than NDSU had chose to ignore this league "mandate" as several teams from the Summit have played UND in a variety of sports the last couple years.

Are the Summit League's meetings and minutes subject to open records laws? It would be interesting to see the timelines of this alleged league directive.

I had conversations with Dan Hammer and Jeff Kolpack about this and in my opinion was that if the minutes from any of their league meetings showed that NDSU was not supporting UND's admission to the Summit that severance packages for Chapman and Taylor should be put together immediately as they are in the end employees of the North Dakota University system. As far as I know no one has asked for these records.

As sad as I am to say it...if Taylor has been black-balling UND in the Summit, then yes he should be fired.

Business men have rise above emotions.

[MplsBison]

Your willful ignorance continues to be wearisome - but that's the point isn't it - after all, it's your principal form of entertainment - trying to irritate by pretending someone's arguing "A" when you know they're really arguing "B". You know full well I'm talking about the reasonableness of the Summit's position, but you know there's nowhere to go there, so you try to change the argument. Grow up.

Debating if the Summit not admitting UND now is reasonable is a red herring.

You've been given the correct reason why it is unreasonable (business risk). Either accept it and move on or don't.

[Chewey]

Debating if the Summit not admitting UND now is reasonable is a red herring.

You've been given the correct reason why it is unreasonable (business risk). Either accept it and move on or don't.

The point is not only that, yes, "business risk" is the ostensible reason now but also that the "fix" has evidently been in the make all along as per what has been discussed above. Advising someone to just deal with it and accept this obvious hypocrisy and duplicity as anything but sheer cynical posturing and gamesmanship is a strain on logic or even common sense. I don't think anyone denies the fact that "it is what it is." However, one's convincing oneself that this is totally benign in terms of being purely a simple business decision demonstrates a level of denial, perhaps even a willful denial, that several are unwilling to countenance let alone share in the experience. One couldn't do a better job of demonstrating it even if one were able to gild it.

[DamStrait]

The point is not only that, yes, "business risk" is the ostensible reason now but also that the "fix" has evidently been in the make all along as per what has been discussed above. Advising someone to just deal with it and accept this obvious hypocrisy and duplicity as anything but sheer cynical posturing and gamesmanship is a strain on logic or even common sense. I don't think anyone denies the fact that "it is what it is." However, one's convincing oneself that this is totally benign in terms of being purely a simple business decision demonstrates a level of denial, perhaps even a willful denial, that several are unwilling to countenance let alone share in the experience. One couldn't do a better job of demonstrating it even if one were able to gild it.

Hear, hear, Chewey, hear, hear! Well done!

[MplsBison]

The point is not only that, yes, "business risk" is the ostensible reason now but also that the "fix" has evidently been in the make all along as per what has been discussed above. Advising someone to just deal with it and accept this obvious hypocrisy and duplicity as anything but sheer cynical posturing and gamesmanship is a strain on logic or even common sense. I don't think anyone denies the fact that "it is what it is." However, one's convincing oneself that this is totally benign in terms of being purely a simple business decision demonstrates a level of denial, perhaps even a willful denial, that several are unwilling to countenance let alone share in the experience. One couldn't do a better job of demonstrating it even if one were able to gild it.

I commend you on being the first to put the colloquial conjecture of the board in such lucid and eloquent terms.

But it still strikes me as a lot of conspiracy theory silliness.

The big, bad Summit League must be in cahoots with the bigger, badder NCAA in order to force UND to drop the nickname!

I think not.

But clearly you've got the mob on your side. They're angry and they want to lash out at something tangible. The Summit League will do.

[the green team]

Oooooooooh, The Evil Summit League. They are out to get us.

[Bison Dan]

The whole nickname/summit issue didn't really come about until after Gene Taylor fumbled and stammered through a series of lame excuses as to why NDSU wouldn't(or couldn't) schedule the Sioux in sports on Dan Hammer's show a few months back. He got caught lying and to me it seems that Douple then attempted to give him a little cover and it escalated from there. After Taylor was unable to give any legitimate reasons he told Hammer that the league had told their teams not to schedule UND which if true, apparently several teams in the summit other than NDSU had chose to ignore this league "mandate" as several teams from the Summit have played UND in a variety of sports the last couple years.

Are the Summit League's meetings and minutes subject to open records laws? It would be interesting to see the timelines of this alleged league directive.

I had conversations with Dan Hammer and Jeff Kolpack about this and in my opinion was that if the minutes from any of their league meetings showed that NDSU was not supporting UND's admission to the Summit that severance packages for Chapman and Taylor should be put together immediately as they are in the end employees of the North Dakota University system. As far as I know no one has asked for these records.

Great conspiracy theory! A new member of the league is laying down the law to the regular members about who they can admit. When will you guys just man up and realize that your problems are mostly self-inflicted & not caused by NDSU.

[Blackburn87]

To the Bison fans who feel the need to post on a Sioux Fan board:

Lurk much?

[yababy8]

Great conspiracy theory! A new member of the league is laying down the law to the regular members about who they can admit. When will you guys just man up and realize that your problems are mostly self-inflicted & not caused by NDSU.

What problems are these that are self inflicted??

[petey23]

Great conspiracy theory! A new member of the league is laying down the law to the regular members about who they can admit. When will you guys just man up and realize that your problems are mostly self-inflicted & not caused by NDSU.

Conspiracy is your word. All I said was that it would be interesting to look at the timeframe of the alleged league mandate regarding summit league teams competing against the Sioux .I have complete confidence that whenever the UND discussion came up in meetings and/or emails that President Chapman and AD Gene Taylor as employees of NDUS did everything in their power to promote UND's gaining summit league membership and I'm sure that if the minutes of the meetings and emails were obtained that this would be true. The interesting part is the Sioux name never was mentioned as an issue until after Taylor's fumbling incoherent response to Dan Hammers question of what was stopping NDSU from competing against UND in athletics.

[darell1976]

Wow. Simply. Amazing. I for one will man up and state we sleep in the bed we make. UND has had decades. DECADES to do right with the tribes and have their FULL support. Not just 67% of one tribe in ND. 100% of each Sioux tribe in the US. I don't believe in the so-called conspiracy theories and I think the Summit's stand on UND is COMPLETELY REASONABLE. A lot of people on this thread talk as though the Summit league owes UND something. Someone please tell me what they owe. I think it's very hypocritical to play the minority card/victim card when it comes to UND and the Summit, while in the next sentence condeming the PC minority for doing the same thing. OH poor UND everyone is picking on us. Guys, we've had our decades of chances. All the blame falls squarely at home, but as is obvious on this thread, any one who thinks the nickname is a millstone around the university's neck gets chastized and called a troll.

NICKNAME OR BUST... on this forum at least.

We have given them "perks" in academics for decades and no complaints yet. Isn't that worth something. As for the Summit League they owe us a chance to join like South Dakota or at least apply for membership with an open mind. Have the Summit tour the campus, attend a game and show there isn't a hostile and abusive atmosphere at UND. Keeping UND out by saying until the nickname issue is resolved is BS. The NCAA did pick on us for having us choose 2 Sioux tribes instead of 1 like Central Mich, Utah, and FSU. You are not going to get 100 percent of people to agree on anything. Did 100 percent of people agree on a president? Did 100% of people agree to keep Redskins as a nickname for Washington? 67% is a lot from one tribe. The other tribe no one knows because they won't let their people vote. We have had decades of chances??? We have had decades where our nickname was NOT a major issue that we need to be on a blacklist from the NCAA.

[Bison Dan]

Conspiracy is your word. All I said was that it would be interesting to look at the timeframe of the alleged league mandate regarding summit league teams competing against the Sioux .I have complete confidence that whenever the UND discussion came up in meetings and/or emails that President Chapman and AD Gene Taylor as employees of NDUS did everything in their power to promote UND's gaining summit league membership and I'm sure that if the minutes of the meetings and emails were obtained that this would be true. The interesting part is the Sioux name never was mentioned as an issue until after Taylor's fumbling incoherent response to Dan Hammers question of what was stopping NDSU from competing against UND in athletics.

I find it more interesting that no reporter ever asked a UND AD why they never played NDSU during our transition (all sports). That it only became a problem when UND started it's transition.

[homer]

I find it more interesting that no reporter ever asked a UND AD why they never played NDSU during our transition (all sports). That it only became a problem when UND started it's transition.

Bison fans have obviously answered that question over and over Danno. The media, the state gov't, the SDoHE, everyone is obviously plotting against the bison to bring them down. I find it funny that you say UND blames all their problems on NDSU when it happens the other way as well. Everytime something negative happens or is reported at NDSU instantly there is a UND conneciton to it.

I've never heard anyone specifically ask Taylor "WHY" they don't play. I have heard both the UND and NDSU AD's get asked about any sort of timeline. Huge difference. That question has always been asked since the moment the games stopped.

[Bison Dan]

Bison fans have obviously answered that question over and over Danno. The media, the state gov't, the SDoHE, everyone is obviously plotting against the bison to bring them down. I find it funny that you say UND blames all their problems on NDSU when it happens the other way as well. Everytime something negative happens or is reported at NDSU instantly there is a UND conneciton to it.

I've never heard anyone specifically ask Taylor "WHY" they don't play. I have heard both the UND and NDSU AD's get asked about any sort of timeline. Huge difference. That question has always been asked since the moment the games stopped.

Then you need to talk with pete23 because he posted that hammer asked Gene Taylor about it. Besides just because YOU haven't heard it doesn't mean it doesn't get asked.

[star2city]

I find it more interesting that no reporter ever asked a UND AD why they never played NDSU during our transition (all sports). That it only became a problem when UND started it's transition.

Get a clue. Roger Thomas had the integrity to have a press conference, and listed numerous reasons why continiuing to play NDSU would be harmful to UND playoff chances in a number of sports. The subsequent ruckus among NDSU fans can be heard to this day: as if NDSU was dependent on playing UND to have any chance of a successful transition.

No reporter had to ask UND because the position was clear. The opposite is true at NDSU: Taylor says they shouldn't play UND because of the nickname, then because of available dates, then because UND is in transition, and then he schedules USD.

[Dagger]

I find it more interesting that no reporter ever asked a UND AD why they never played NDSU during our transition (all sports). That it only became a problem when UND started it's transition.

The reasons everyone did what they did have been hashed and rehashed a 100 times in the last 5 or 6 years. This guy must be living under a shell. Ther were mistakes made by a lot of people involved(for sure UND). UND and NDSU have explained their positions till most people are sick of hearing about it. It is time to move on.

[homer]

Then you need to talk with pete23 because he posted that hammer asked Gene Taylor about it. Besides just because YOU haven't heard it doesn't mean it doesn't get asked.

Well I heard the UND AD got asked the question so I guess we are even. Just cause YOU didn't hear that one doesn't mean it never gets asked.

[MplsBison]

We have given them "perks" in academics for decades and no complaints yet. Isn't that worth something. As for the Summit League they owe us a chance to join like South Dakota or at least apply for membership with an open mind. Have the Summit tour the campus, attend a game and show there isn't a hostile and abusive atmosphere at UND. Keeping UND out by saying until the nickname issue is resolved is BS. The NCAA did pick on us for having us choose 2 Sioux tribes instead of 1 like Central Mich, Utah, and FSU. You are not going to get 100 percent of people to agree on anything. Did 100 percent of people agree on a president? Did 100% of people agree to keep Redskins as a nickname for Washington? 67% is a lot from one tribe. The other tribe no one knows because they won't let their people vote. We have had decades of chances??? We have had decades where our nickname was NOT a major issue that we need to be on a blacklist from the NCAA.

It's not BS, it's 100% benign business risk assessment.

Choosing to ignore that just tells me that you're tin-foil hat is cutting off circulation to your brain.

There simply is no other position you can take on this.

[beebsb010]

It's not BS, it's 100% benign business risk assessment.

Choosing to ignore that just tells me that you're tin-foil hat is cutting off circulation to your brain.

There simply is no other position you can take on this.

Just wondering what the status on the nickname is. Anyone know? Are we currently on another "extension" to get permission from SR to keep the name? What is the current deadline?

[MplsBison]

Just wondering what the status on the nickname is. Anyone know? Are we currently on another "extension" to get permission from SR to keep the name? What is the current deadline?

The SBoHE can rule UND to retire the nickname now. They're choosing not to, for the moment, because if they did and then the supreme court ruled in favor of the SL appeal, their decision would be overturned.

It looks like if nothing happens at the court here pretty quick, the SBoHE is going to do it anyway. They can't afford to wait much longer on the Summit.