Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

18 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

I don't recall the REA nor the foundation ever speaking in support of retaining WIH.

 

18 hours ago, Teeder11 said:

Don't quote me, and I could be wrong, but I always got the impression that "off the record" they considered it a bit of an albatross in the way of the main focus.

So did the ND state legislature in the late 1990's about building of The Ralph. They eventually acted with changes to let this happen on ND land, although maybe not knowing all the details and how they would play out. 

Anyone remember the new hockey arena story in it's early stages, if I remember correctly:

Engelstad donating 100M$; building a 60M$ rink and giving 40M$ to UND.

Tom Clifford, Earl Strinden, Ralph Engelstad, and etc (Arena Building Committee) going around the country visiting hockey rinks and getting ideas.

Building a 15,000 seat rink in GF, later downsized to under 12,000 by concerns from many on the committe.

Legislature saying WAIT we don't want the responsibility of keeping this potential gas guzzling machine running, hence the not full ownership for 30 years.

Ben Brien Logo.

President Kupchella warming up to Sioux protesters, Dear Chuck call, construction temporarily halted.

Building plans change, now the whole 100M$ going into The Ralph, Sioux logos going in all over. Everything top shelf. Ralph spent $104M to get her done.

Thank you Ralph and Betty Engelstad and daughter Ms. McGarry.

 

 

[streetsahead]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but in 2030 UND will take sole ownership of the REA/Betty.  Does this mean that they effectively own REA Inc?  Meaning not only do they get ALL profits for UND games but also for other events in the Ralph as well?  I guess I am confused by some posters on here saying that in 2030 the Ralph is going to go hell because UND won't be able to afford or won't want to maintain the upkeep of the arena(s).  But UND will be getting 100% of all ticket sales, promotional revenue, concessions, etc.  That is going to be a ton of new revenue if that is the case.  Can someone verify this?

I think the concern is that the funds would be used in other areas rather than pumped back into the Ralph.

[Frozen4sioux]

1 hour ago, streetsahead said:

I think the concern is that the funds would be used in other areas rather than pumped back into the Ralph.

Thats a very valid concern.

FB will be very pissed when the 48% Athletics / 52% REA goes to 8% Athletics /  92% financing committes to study the effects of nonbinary lesbian dance theory as viewed through the lens of social injustice perpetrated upon nonGmo fed vegan ..... hawks.  

....and of course the associated building unnamed in honor of indecision.

[UNDColorado]

1 hour ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Thats a very valid concern.

FB will be very pissed when the 48% Athletics / 52% REA goes to 8% Athletics /  92% financing committes to study the effects of nonbinary lesbian dance theory as viewed through the lens of social injustice perpetrated upon nonGmo fed vegan ..... hawks.  

....and of course the associated building unnamed in honor of indecision.

Very good point. 

While it doesn't make sense to me why the REA foundation takes 52% of football ticket revenue, I would rather have it go there than something like the above scenario. I know you posted this tongue in cheek but it's not that far fetched these days.

[Cratter]

Maybe UND agreed to 52% as a way to help pay for building UND a new basketball arena knowing basketball could never repay it with basketball and volleyball ticket sales alone?

[Siouxperfan7]

13 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Maybe UND agreed to 52% as a way to help pay for building UND a new basketball arena knowing basketball could never repay it with basketball and volleyball ticket sales alone?

Repay?  I thought all this money was a gift?!!!

[darell1976]

24 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Maybe UND agreed to 52% as a way to help pay for building UND a new basketball arena knowing basketball could never repay it with basketball and volleyball ticket sales alone?

Did UND need a new basketball arena? Was the Hyslop in bad shape, also isn't the capacity of the Betty less than what the Hyslop was?

[UNDBIZ]

12 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Did UND need a new basketball arena? Was the Hyslop in bad shape, also isn't the capacity of the Betty less than what the Hyslop was?

Yes, yes, and yes.

[Cratter]

44 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Repay?  I thought all this money was a gift?!!!

The Betty wasn't built with donated money.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

1 hour ago, Cratter said:

The Betty wasn't built with donated money.

There is a bond on The Betty. 

Who presently owns The Betty less the land, was it added into the 2030 year ending deal with The Ralph?

[fightingsioux4life]

On 5/10/2018 at 3:15 PM, gfhockey said:

Engelstad s have no reason to lie

 

they don’t care it’s their money and they can do what they want with it

 

we act like we are entitled to it

Excuse me? "Their money"? They make that money off the backs of the student-athletes on the Men's Hockey team. That money is supposed to support UND athletics. That was the whole point of building REA. REA is supposed to serve the interests of UND, NOT the other way around. If REA is skimming a bunch of that money off the top for their own benefit, then it is our business and no, they cannot "do what they want with it". REA, Inc. is not some for-profit business that is in it to make a bunch of money for its shareholders. It is a non-profit entity set up to manage REA and make sure it is carrying out its mission. And if they aren't doing that, Kennedy has the right and responsibility to call MISS McGarry out on it.

It is entitled, spoiled brats like MISS McGarry that are the problem here, NOT UND and NOT President Kennedy.

[fightingsioux4life]

On 5/11/2018 at 7:25 PM, UNDBIZ said:

Is the REA in existence for the benefit of UND athletics, or the Engelstad Foundation? 

Shhhhh, you might upset MISS McGarry! Then she'll order the demolition of REA! We can't have that!!!! (extreme sarcasm) 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

So like our small group discussed this afternoon, if UND had owned The Ralph outright right after it's completion (without any strings beginning in Oct 2001), hockey would have had less money spent on it and more spent on other sports, but at the end of each year the funds would of been consumed, and The Betty addition would of probably not been built.

Anyone know when The Betty bond is paid off? What is the annual payment? Building The Betty changed the cash flow to the AD, this in turn costs UND money annually to balance the AD budget, while generous spending continues on MH. Does this sound like UND is actually partially paying to have The Betty built in a round about way?

President Kennedy seems to have legit concerns over the AD when UND has to cover any shortage, especially in these financial trying times.  But, there is this binding agreement with The Raplh. He gets the credit for trying and sooner or later may find something somewhere?

Ms. McGarry is carrying out her dad's wishes along with the agreement to build The Betty. She mentioned that previous presidents have tried to change some things, and it's like she is not in favor of that. She gets my respect for staying to the agreement.

We seriously need FB and MBB & WBB to bring in more $. UND's near future in general is under extremely financial pressures, and if the AD is short of funds and therefore consuming part of UND's general fund, President Kennedy will have no choice but to make additional cuts.

What would get cut first, FCOA to the athletes?  We have come a long way since being the Flickertails! Let's keep moving forward!

 

[fightingsioux4life]

Allow me to give everyone here a snapshot of the big picture with regard to REA, its relationship to UND and the very real and serious consequences of this issue:

• Imagine that the contract split the revenues 50-50 between UND and REA starting in 2001. Imagine the extra revenues that would have resulted from that more equitable contract.
• Now imagine all the coaches salaries that we could have increased during the critical transition period from D-II to D-I.
• Imagine the coaches we could have retained with those extra revenues (Hint: I am talking about Dale Lennon).
• Imagine the assistant coaches we could have retained instead of losing them to lateral moves to teams in our own freaking conference (which happened to MBB just last week).
• Imagine Phase II of the HPC under construction or at least close to its fundraising goals instead of being a twinkle in our eyes.
• Imagine all the championships we could have won because we had more money to invest in FB and WBB. WBB made it to the D-II national title game in Rochester, MN in March 2001. REA opened in October 2001. FB won the D-II national title on December 8th, 2001. After that point, FB and WBB had very good bordering on great teams, but couldn't quite get over the hump. This also was a time of six figure deficits in the athletic department, which Kupchella ordered solved IMMEDIATELY! Imagine what those extra revenues from REA could have done for both aforementioned programs? Gene Roebuck may have padded his legacy with 2 to 3 more national titles and UND FB might have been Grand Valley State instead of Runner-Up/Second-Fiddle/Stepping Stone U. The fact that all of this happened after REA opened makes me think it is more than a coincidence.

And now the consequences become even more important today with regard to.......

• NDSU's increasing (and sickening) advantage in athletics fundraising, athletics success and national profile. The more they win, the smaller and more insignificant we look. This has to change soon, or we we will become "that other school in North Dakota" (just typing that makes me ill). More revenues will be crucial in preventing that.
• The reality of FCOA as a permanent part of intercollegiate athletics. We cannot simply conclude that it is not "feasible" to fund FCOA and resolve to do "more with less". That is a one-way ticket straight to permanent mediocrity. We will learn what it was like to be Morningside for all those years in the old NCC. More revenues will be crucial to meeting these needs.
• Our move from the Big Sky to the Summit League and MVFC. If our programs fall flat on their faces early and often in our new leagues, it will make our problems worse and harder to overcome. More revenue can help us establish a solid foundation for the future.
• The possible upcoming CFB shake-up with regard to divisional realignment and scholarship limits. If there is another division added to CFB (a G5 division split off of the P5), we will want to position ourselves to be in that new division, not stuck in the old (and further watered-down) FCS. More revenues will be crucial to making it happen.

A more equitable REA contract would help make these problems easier to overcome and solve. Unfortunately, some people care more about soothing the hurt feelings of a rich heiress who lives in Las Vegas, NV and has admitted she doesn't care all that much about UND. I oppose that messianic "cult of personality" thinking and support doing something about this problem because I love UND, I cherish UND and I want a bright future for UND.

The contract is a joke. It is wrong. It must be fixed. And it must be fixed NOW.

(drops mic)

(exits stage right)

[UNDBIZ]

Seems to be confusion with the messy ownership/management setup for the REA, but I'm pretty confident saying the Engelstad Foundation is not taking money from the REA to give away to someone else. Money not going to UND is being spent on the REA and Betty.

The issue, IMO, is the REA is not sharing in the pain of the rest of the University. Staff (of which the REA has a lot) are not being laid off or asked to do more at the Ralph, in fact, they appear to be doing less with the loss of women's hockey. There is also likely duplication between the REA and UND AD staff. I'm sure the current leadership at UND would like to see things streamlined and right-sized, allowing the revenue sharing to be more favorable to UND. 

[fightingsioux4life]

On 5/13/2018 at 10:44 AM, Kab said:

I think we know what Ralph would do.

Wasn’t that long ago Ralph said to a professor if he could he would fire her ass for taking a stance that Ralph didn’t like.

who knows what’s going on between theses two but why piss off our biggest donor.

Because this spoiled rotten heiress doesn't run UND. Mark Kennedy does. Kennedy does not work for MISS McGarry. He works for the SBoHE and indirectly, the people of North Dakota. If MISS McGarry wants the UND President job, she can apply for it the next time it is open. Otherwise, she had better learn how to deal with people outside of her kingdom and bargain in good faith.

[fightingsioux4life]

On 5/13/2018 at 1:19 AM, Blackheart said:

A lot can change in 12 years.  UND may end up playing over on the East Side in some tiny arena if they aren't careful...

Really? Next I suppose you'll drag up that old urban legend of REA being torn down if UND p!$$ed off the Engelstad family? 

[fightingsioux4life]

On 5/13/2018 at 12:30 AM, SiouxVolley said:

McGarry has stated she doesn’t have much personal loyalty to UND because she is a UNLV grad.

The thinking that she’ll be interested donor from the family foundation hasn’t had a basis in facts for years.  Too much wishful thinking here.

Then why are people soooooo worried about what she thinks or how "offended" she is? Why don't we focus on successful alumni who care about this place and want it to succeed? #simplequestions

[fightingsioux4life]

12 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

My take thus far is there is a respectable group on the boards of these three. Seems like moving along to the 30 year time table, supporting UND athletics along the way, but hockey is going to get everything it needs first to stay as a top NCAA program, then the residual to the AD. Stirring the pot may not be beneficial in the long run.

Football is never going to get the Engelstad hockey type of support from GF City or the State of ND. WBB and MBB have the same challenges as do the other sports at UND. Outside sources of the State of ND, GF City, and UND are needed to bring the other sports to the level of UND hockey or NDSU football. The reason I bring GF City in is because the City of Fargo gave NDSU a pretty sweet deal for their Dome.

Example, to get UND FB near the top in Div I FCS, we need to fund the program at a higher level. That would be through a big private donation, or a large group of private donations along with continued support from the fans. Spend the money on the coaches and facilities. Increase in fan support should follow. Of course all funds spent must be done wisely.

Be careful! Every time I suggest this on here, I get accused of "spending other people's money". 

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said:

Seems to be confusion with the messy ownership/management setup for the REA, but I'm pretty confident saying the Engelstad Foundation is not taking money from the REA to give away to someone else. Money not going to UND is being spent on the REA and Betty.

The issue, IMO, is the REA is not sharing in the pain of the rest of the University. Staff (of which the REA has a lot) are not being laid off or asked to do more at the Ralph, in fact, they appear to be doing less with the loss of women's hockey. There is also likely duplication between the REA and UND AD staff. I'm sure the current leadership at UND would like to see things streamlined and right-sized, allowing the revenue sharing to be more favorable to UND. 

I believe this to be pretty accurate. The REA intentionally operates outside the UND budget for multiple reasons. Some are beneficial, some not as much, some in a gray area depending on a various factors. Extra money taken in is given back to UND at the end of the year, though they obviously keep a reserve account for upkeep and upgrades mostly at the board's discretion. I don't necessarily think any of the programs are being shortchanged because of the arrangement, however I think the athletic department as a whole has had to lean a bit more on institutional funds due to uncertainty and inconsistent dollar amounts coming back from the REA. There's probably an argument that some upgrades in the REA could have been money spent elsewhere (outside of private donations) which UND would be able to make the decision on with a different revenue split. 

I think some people are taking the issue a little too far on placing blame and claiming it is the reason for the downfall of other sports, though with how things were stirred up with a lot of unknown details that still haven't been made clear, that is bound to happen. 

My thought is there is some negotiations going on currently on issues that were previously signed off on with no second thought because the arrangement was working for both parties. UND now would like a little more control over funds and see them flow in a different way to help their budget. 

[Frozen4sioux]

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Allow me to give everyone here a snapshot OF MY DEMENTED THOUGHT PROCESS of the big picture with regard to REA, its relationship to UND and the very real and serious consequences of this issue:

• Imagine that the contract split the revenues 50-50 between UND and REA starting in 2001. Imagine the extra revenues that would have resulted from that more equitable contract.ETHICALLY FLAWED ASSUMPTION
• Now imagine all the coaches salaries that we could have increased during the critical transition period from D-II to D-I. REVISIONIST ASSUMPTION 
• Imagine the coaches we could have retained with those extra revenues (Hint: I am talking about Dale Lennon).ETHICAL ARGUMENT DISASTER, ASSUMPTIONS OF MULTIPLE PARTIES MAKING DECISIONS THAT DONT HAVE BASIS INNTHE END ASSUMPTION 
• Imagine the assistant coaches we could have retained instead of losing them to lateral moves to teams in our own freaking conference (which happened to MBB just last week). ARGUMENT DOES NOT RESPECT THE MULTITUDE OF ADDITIONAL FACTORS 
• Imagine Phase II of the HPC under construction or at least close to its fundraising goals instead of being a twinkle in our eyes. A MASSICE ASSUMPTION OF AN END GOAL YOU HAVE ZERO IDEA OF THE FUNDING BALANCE OF
• Imagine all the championships we could have won because we had more money to invest in FB and WBB. WBB made it to the D-II national title game in Rochester, MN in March 2001. REA opened in October 2001. FB won the D-II national title on December 8th, 2001. After that point, FB and WBB had very good bordering on great teams, but couldn't quite get over the hump.
• OMG YOU ARE LIVING IN A STATE OF PURE FANTASY, DID YOU GROW UP UNDER POWER LINES?
• ...AND ALL THIS BASED ON YOUR THEORY OF JUST AN ADDITIONAL 2% GOING TO UND FIRST.... 
•  
• This also was a time of six figure deficits in the athletic department, which Kupchella ordered solved IMMEDIATELY! Imagine what those extra revenues from REA could have done for both aforementioned programs? Gene Roebuck may have padded his legacy with 2 to 3 more national titles and UND FB might have been Grand Valley State instead of Runner-Up/Second-Fiddle/Stepping Stone U. The fact that all of this happened after REA opened makes me think it is more than a coincidence.
• ASSUMPTIONS BASED ON BATSHIT CRAZY CONSPIRACY 

And now the consequences become even more important today with regard to.......

• NDSU's increasing (and sickening) advantage in athletics fundraising, athletics success and national profile. The more they win, the smaller and more insignificant we look. This has to change soon, or we we will become "that other school in North Dakota" (just typing that makes me ill). More revenues will be crucial in preventing that.
• ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVENT TO EACH OTHER A FALSE COMPARISON 
• The reality of FCOA as a permanent part of intercollegiate athletics. We cannot simply conclude that it is not "feasible" to fund FCOA and resolve to do "more with less". That is a one-way ticket straight to permanent mediocrity. We will learn what it was like to be Morningside for all those years in the old NCC. More revenues will be crucial to meeting these needs. WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT FCOA IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
• Our move from the Big Sky to the Summit League and MVFC. If our programs fall flat on their faces early and often in our new leagues, it will make our problems worse and harder to overcome. More revenue can help us establish a solid foundation for the future. MISTAKES EXACTLY LIKE THE CONFRENCES AND CONSTANT EFF UPS ARE EXACTLY THE REASON TO NOT LET UND CONTROL MORE MONEY, PROVEN INCAPABLE OF PROPER MANAGEMENT
• The possible upcoming CFB shake-up with regard to divisional realignment and scholarship limits. If there is another division added to CFB (a G5 division split off of the P5), we will want to position ourselves to be in that new division, not stuck in the old (and further watered-down) FCS. More revenues will be crucial to making it happen.
• YOU ARE SO FAR OUT IN DREAMWORLD ON THIS ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO HELP YOU. CAN UND WBB JOIN THE NBA TOO??

A more equitable REA contract would help make these problems easier to overcome and solve.

Assumption based on delusionallu flawed reasoning 

Unfortunately, some people care more about soothing the hurt feelings of a rich heiress who lives in Las Vegas, NV and has admitted she doesn't care all that much about UND. I oppose that messianic "cult of personality" thinking and support doing something about this problem because I love UND, I cherish UND and I want a bright future for UND.

I can not believe you graduated from UND but would find it unsuprising that you worked at UND.

The contract is a joke. It is wrong. It must be fixed. And it must be fixed NOW.

(drops mic) youre paying for it if you broke it

(exits stage right) everyone would be better off and smarter and better informed if you did

You are delusional.

All of your scenerios are built on multiple assumptions built into a generalized "what if".

Its rediculous, it shows poor analytical reasoning skills, and worse yet it irresponsibly mis-informs people who would believe your rambling bull$%!# is based in knowledge instead of your own manufactued hopes and dreams.

I have corrected your manifesto for ethical reasoning and to call oit your BS and flawed thought process.

You do more damage to University of North Dakota Athletics than any deal ever could.

 

[Frozen4sioux]

32 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I believe this to be pretty accurate. The REA intentionally operates outside the UND budget for multiple reasons. Some are beneficial, some not as much, some in a gray area depending on a various factors. Extra money taken in is given back to UND at the end of the year, though they obviously keep a reserve account for upkeep and upgrades mostly at the board's discretion. I don't necessarily think any of the programs are being shortchanged because of the arrangement, however I think the athletic department as a whole has had to lean a bit more on institutional funds due to uncertainty and inconsistent dollar amounts coming back from the REA. There's probably an argument that some upgrades in the REA could have been money spent elsewhere (outside of private donations) which UND would be able to make the decision on with a different revenue split. 

I think some people are taking the issue a little too far on placing blame and claiming it is the reason for the downfall of other sports, though with how things were stirred up with a lot of unknown details that still haven't been made clear, that is bound to happen. 

My thought is there is some negotiations going on currently on issues that were previously signed off on with no second thought because the arrangement was working for both parties. UND now would like a little more control over funds and see them flow in a different way to help their budget. 

I agree fully with this, It is important to understand that first sentence.

I think this post is well said and much closer to core issue.

Well said, good post.

[fightingsioux4life]

52 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

You are delusional.

All of your scenerios are built on multiple assumptions built into a generalized "what if".

Its rediculous, it shows poor analytical reasoning skills, and worse yet it irresponsibly mis-informs people who would believe your rambling bull$%!# is based in knowledge instead of your own manufactued hopes and dreams.

I have corrected your manifesto for ethical reasoning and to call oit your BS and flawed thought process.

You do more damage to University of North Dakota Athletics than any deal ever could.

Nice personal attacks son.

Doesn't add credibility to your argument though.

Now go back to sucking up to REA.

[Frozen4sioux]

39 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Nice personal attacks son.

Doesn't add credibility to your argument though.

Now go back to sucking up to REA.

I didnt attack you, 

I literally corrected your post with the appropriate ethical reasoning flaws and accounting of fact for your fantasy theories.

Its extreamly credible..... you see the things you wrote attempting to "clarify the big picture" are not based in fact but, conspiracy, fantasy, and out of spite. That is wrong. You are wrong.

You tend to be one of these kids who argues with the teacher about your grade, never understanding that the answer you provided was wrong, the thinking that went into the answer was flawed and the conclusions are not supported in fact or data. 

I will always call you out when you flat out write BS. I dont think you will learn, but I feel as if I owe it to you to try and help. And the community as a whole needs to be aware of the levels of crazy you try to preach

 

[fightingsioux4life]

7 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

I didnt attack you, 

I literally corrected your post with the appropriate ethical reasoning flaws and accounting of fact for your fantasy theories.

Its extreamly credible..... you see the things you wrote attempting to "clarify the big picture" are not based in fact but, conspiracy, fantasy, and out of spite. That is wrong. You are wrong.

You tend to be one of these kids who argues with the teacher about your grade, never understanding that the answer you provided was wrong, the thinking that went into the answer was flawed and the conclusions are not supported in fact or data. 

I will always call you out when you flat out write BS. I dont think you will learn, but I feel as if I owe it to you to try and help. And the community as a whole needs to be aware of the levels of crazy you try to preach

Very condescending response.

You asked if I grew up under power lines. You made several derogatory comments about my intelligence. I would call that "attacking". Not that I care what you think about me, but it is quite funny that anytime anybody questions REA, you are quick to jump all over them with an "How DARE you" approach.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.