New AD posting and hiring process

[SiouxVolley]

Have qualifications been posted yet?  Or will that be set by a commitee?  Anyone know target dates for getting the proceas started?

[The Sicatoka]

Not that I see.

https://und.edu/finance-operations/human-resources-payroll/careers/secure/job-openings-external.cfm?all=1 

[Mama Sue]

Let's get going... I hope they don't hire a search group.....people are getting paid and/or were appointed to make these decisions....there have probably been behind the scenes verbal offers or at least "contacts" to see who is interested...

[jdub27]

On 11/3/2017 at 4:51 PM, Mama Sue said:

Let's get going... I hope they don't hire a search group.....people are getting paid and/or were appointed to make these decisions....there have probably been behind the scenes verbal offers or at least "contacts" to see who is interested...

That's exactly why you hire a search firm, North Dakota open record laws prevent the behind the scenes contact to potential candidates.

[Mama Sue]

6 hours ago, jdub27 said:

That's exactly why you hire a search firm, North Dakota open record laws prevent the behind the scenes contact to potential candidates.

Sorry, I have been on both sides of this type of process.  A search firm is just a place to put blame 3 to 5 years down the road.  People are paid, appointed, or elected to do this!

These firms cost lots of money.  I mean, a vacancy is barely announced publicly and they are knocking at your door.  

Not sure these laws are "enforceable" and would be very costly to try it.....plus anyone making that type of accusation is basically black balled. It takes a big name/group to try this.

Need someone with a good work ethic to interview prospects and then the "gonadal fortitude" to follow through! Has anyone mentioned a FEMALE AD, just asking!

[jdub27]

6 minutes ago, Mama Sue said:

Sorry, I have been on both sides of this type of process.  A search firm is just a place to put blame 3 to 5 years down the road.  People are paid, appointed, or elected to do this!

These firms cost lots of money.  I mean, a vacancy is barely announced publicly and they are knocking at your door.  

Not sure these laws are "enforceable" and would be very costly to try it.....plus anyone making that type of accusation is basically black balled. It takes a big name/group to try this.

Need someone with a good work ethic to interview prospects and then the "gonadal fortitude" to follow through! Has anyone mentioned a FEMALE AD, just asking!

Not sure you're quite following what open record laws I'm talking about. Any communication between UND and a candidate ,including e-mails and applications, can be requested by the media (or anyone for that matter) with a Freedom of Information request and UND is obligated by law to provide it. In fact, it is actually a pretty simple process. This transparency has prevented qualified candidates from applying for jobs in North Dakota as they don't want their employer to know they are looking. With a search firm, they have the ability to make off the record contact and gauge possible interest in jobs. This allows candidates to "test the water" and see if it is worth having their name out there as looking for a few job. This is nothing new, the same thing happened when UND hired a football coach and a new President. Forum Communications was putting in requests at least every few days, getting and publishing the names of new candidates.

UND has appointed people with ties to the University to be on the hiring committee and they will work with the search firm.

[HawksHoops]

2 hours ago, jdub27 said:

Not sure you're quite following what open record laws I'm talking about. Any communication between UND and a candidate ,including e-mails and applications, can be requested by the media (or anyone for that matter) with a Freedom of Information request and UND is obligated by law to provide it. In fact, it is actually a pretty simple process. This transparency has prevented qualified candidates from applying for jobs in North Dakota as they don't want their employer to know they are looking. With a search firm, they have the ability to make off the record contact and gauge possible interest in jobs. This allows candidates to "test the water" and see if it is worth having their name out there as looking for a few job. This is nothing new, the same thing happened when UND hired a football coach and a new President. Forum Communications was putting in requests at least every few days, getting and publishing the names of new candidates.

UND has appointed people with ties to the University to be on the hiring committee and they will work with the search firm.

The ND Legislature changed the open records law during the 2017 session.  Applicant records for all positions are now considered "confidential" and can only be disclosed once three finalists (or less if there are limited qualified candidates) are selected.  Hopefully, this allows all public entities in the state to attract more qualified candidates.  

Here is the related section from the ND Century Code.

44-04-18.27. Applications for public employment - Hiring process - Confidential records and open records.

If a public entity or any person delegated authority by a public entity to review applications or make hiring decisions receives applications from three or more applicants who meet the minimum qualifications for a vacant position, the public entity or other person shall designate three or more of the qualified applicants as finalists for further consideration before the public entity or other person may issue an offer of employment to fill the position. However, if the public entity or other person does not wish to consider any of the applications further and decides not to make an offer of employment for the vacant position, the public entity need not designate any finalist. The applications and any records related to the applications which contain information that could reasonably be used to identify an applicant are confidential, except records related to finalists are open to the public after the finalists are designated. The public entity or other person reviewing applications on behalf of the public entity shall comply with all requirements for an executive session to discuss confidential applications. If, by the close of the application period for a vacant position, a public entity receives applications from fewer than three applicants who meet the minimum qualifications, the applications and records related to the applications are open to the public.

[jdub27]

56 minutes ago, HawksHoops said:

The ND Legislature changed the open records law during the 2017 session.  Applicant records for all positions are now considered "confidential" and can only be disclosed once three finalists (or less if there are limited qualified candidates) are selected.  Hopefully, this allows all public entities in the state to attract more qualified candidates.  

Here is the related section from the ND Century Code.

44-04-18.27. Applications for public employment - Hiring process - Confidential records and open records.

If a public entity or any person delegated authority by a public entity to review applications or make hiring decisions receives applications from three or more applicants who meet the minimum qualifications for a vacant position, the public entity or other person shall designate three or more of the qualified applicants as finalists for further consideration before the public entity or other person may issue an offer of employment to fill the position. However, if the public entity or other person does not wish to consider any of the applications further and decides not to make an offer of employment for the vacant position, the public entity need not designate any finalist. The applications and any records related to the applications which contain information that could reasonably be used to identify an applicant are confidential, except records related to finalists are open to the public after the finalists are designated. The public entity or other person reviewing applications on behalf of the public entity shall comply with all requirements for an executive session to discuss confidential applications. If, by the close of the application period for a vacant position, a public entity receives applications from fewer than three applicants who meet the minimum qualifications, the applications and records related to the applications are open to the public.

That's a good point, I had forgotten about that change. And while it is an improvement, I still don't think it negates but original point nor am I sure how that covers actual communication with university employees if someone were to reach out to them. Having a search firm to act as a conduit along with guiding the committee is worth the investment. They are also able to help shape the job posting if there is a preferred candidate that has expressed interest. 

[HawksHoops]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

That's a good point, I had forgotten about that change. And while it is an improvement, I still don't think it negates but original point nor am I sure how that covers actual communication with university employees if someone were to reach out to them. Having a search firm to act as a conduit along with guiding the committee is worth the investment. They are also able to help shape the job posting if there is a preferred candidate that has expressed interest. 

Absolutely.  I agree with you on the necessity of hiring a search firm for an important position like the AD.

[UNDBIZ]

 

[Shawn-O]

18 hours ago, Mama Sue said:

Need someone with a good work ethic to interview prospects and then the "gonadal fortitude" to follow through! Has anyone mentioned a FEMALE AD, just asking!

Someone like Beth Goetz would get a serious look if she's interested.   

[UND-1]

Sue Jeno already gets slapped down in the first meeting.   

[SiouxVolley]

Bill Carr of CarrSports is on the committee. He shows up if schools are serious about upgrading competition levels. Like going FBS.

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said:

Bill Carr of CarrSports is on the committee. He shows up if schools are serious about upgrading completion levels. Like going FBS.

Maybe he'll get us upgraded to legit FCS level.

[cberkas]

He's probably there to help with finding a new AD just like CarrSports does. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

22 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Bill Carr of CarrSports is on the committee. He shows up if schools are serious about upgrading competition levels. Like going FBS.

who is bill carr?

[SiouxVolley]

3 minutes ago, cberkas said:

He's probably there to help with finding a new AD just like CarrSports does. 

He has a tremendous contact list so he himself is like a search firm.  But thought he was busy at Montana St

[SiouxVolley]

3 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

who is bill carr?

Used to be the AD at Houston and now has his own consulting firm.

If you examine the schools that have used him, almost all have made a major move up shortly after consulting with him.

[jdub27]

57 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Bill Carr of CarrSports is on the committee. He shows up if schools are serious about upgrading competition levels. Like going FBS.

He's not actually on the committee, he's the consultant for the search firm who was hired. This is not a surprise and was announced that they were utilizing a search firm at the retirement announcement.

 

27 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Used to be the AD at Houston and now has his own consulting firm.

If you examine the schools that have used him, almost all have made a major move up shortly after consulting with him.

Can you provide a better list than they have on their website that shows this is actually true? Their website lists clients they have represented in AD searches, none of which have moved up to my knowledge outside of Troy and that was in 2001. Troy had the same AD from 1994-2005, so them doing any AD work for Troy had nothing to do with a move up. I think it is an absurd stretch to state that "almost all" have made a major move up.

• Georgia Institute of Technology
• Auburn University
• Virginia Commonwealth University
• Troy University
• University of North Carolina
• University at Buffalo
• Butler University
• Elon University
• Long Beach State University
• Duke University
• Kentucky
• Clemson

 

[SiouxVolley]

Here's the list I was referring to:

http://www.carrsportsconsulting.com/Services/ManagementConsulting/FeasibilityStudy.aspx

[jdub27]

9 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Here's the list I was referring to:

http://www.carrsportsconsulting.com/Services/ManagementConsulting/FeasibilityStudy.aspx

So what you meant to say is that schools that have used CarrSports for a Feasibility Study (one of the multiple services they offer) are interested in moving up and many have done so. I'd say that is significantly different than claiming schools that have used them for an Athletic Director search (the service which UND has retained them for) have "almost all made a major move up after consulting with him".

Since UND's name is on the Feasibility Study list, along with the XDSU's, it looks like they chose to work with a firm they are familiar with and vice-versa to utilize another one of the services they provide. That proves absolutely nothing.

[SiouxVolley]

19 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

So what you meant to say is that schools that have used CarrSports for a Feasibility Study (one of the multiple services they offer) are interested in moving up and many have done so. I'd say that is significantly different than claiming schools that have used them for an Athletic Director search (the service which UND has retained them for) have "almost all made a major move up after consulting with him".

Since UND's name is on the Feasibility Study list, along with the XDSU's, it looks like they chose to work with a firm they are familiar with and vice-versa to utilize another one of the services they provide. That proves absolutely nothing.

Guess from your own experience you can't chew gum and do something else too?

All righty then.

[UNDvince97-01]

57 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Bill Carr of CarrSports is on the committee. He shows up if schools are serious about upgrading competition levels. Like going FBS.

Seriously, you have to stop with this stuff.

1+1 does NOT equal potato.

Unless you're a ndsu grad, of course.

[SWSiouxMN]

4 hours ago, Shawn-O said:

Someone like Beth Goetz would get a serious look if she's interested.   

No.

just no

[jdub27]

10 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Guess from your own experience you can't chew gum and do something else too?

All righty then.

You might have a point if UND hired CarrSports to do something besides chew gum, but they didn't.....

Just pointing on the the relevant details and giant holes in your latest connect the dot theory. I know how announcement of UND moving to the Summit/MVFC threw a giant wrench in the UND/Big Sky/FBS one.